Crackling 60hz hum three channels in a row, every 4th channel clear as a bell.

[loosecannon]

james,

is your house wired with the original two wire system, with two prong outlets throughout the house?

or did you replace all the old wiring with 12/2 w/ground romex?


BTW, that link you are referring to is about RF grounding. RF and DC grounding are two different beasts.
read up on both.
yes, your head is going to be spinning for a while, but eventually you will find peace. LOL

LC

 

[cominatyalive]

LOL! Now, now L.C.! just hold on a minute there. If I didn't know any better I'd take that as an insult.

Yes L.C., as you'd suspect with a 104 year old house that there would be 12/2 two wire wiring at least somewhere, and it's true, the second level of my house is still with the old wiring, but with conduit.

However, most of the lower level has been upgraded. New 100 amp QO circuit box, and new 12/3 wiring, and new outlets, "with of course", CONDUIT! lol!

Sorry to disappoint anyone out here but I'm very against using cheap Romex, or Greenfield, better known as BX cable. Not only does it not provide a good ground, but it is also against code here. Let there be no mistake, I may be a bit behind in knowledge of RF and the sort, and although I will be human & tell you right now that I am not a know-it-all, I am fairly knowledgable in residential wiring, electricity, and electrical grounding. When your in the HVACR field, it's required. As I mentioned before, I just installed 60 amp service into my garage last summer. Outlets, conduit, 12/3 wiring & a 6 breaker Main lug circuit box with an additional double fused disconnect, all with the required (separate ground rod), and a 220 outlet with a 30 amp breaker, and a total of nine double flourescent lighting to add insult to injury.
All by my lonesome & a building permit.

But when one has problems with some kind of interference in their Radio, anyone will tell you that the electricians that first installed your electrical service when your house was built, Did not have our Dxing, quite reception, and trouble free noisless mains on their minds.

Now, getting back to the URL I posted, #2. to be exact, is not all about RF ground. It is mainly about AC Neutral Service Grounding. However, I'm not selling you short here as it does go on to tell you why it is not a good practice to be hooked into this type of ground, especially in transmitting applications. In which it does refer to RF interference by hooking into the AC neutral Service Ground. Your just asking for trouble period. Here's the Paragraph in black & white so we can all be on the same page here.

Quote for #2.

"Choose an electrode wisely. Don't use cold water pipes or AC service neutrals to achieve ground. both of these often travel very long distances before actually reaching earth ground, and they are often full of joint connections, corrosion, and dissimilar metal changes along the route. Making connections through these sources in transmitting applications frequently increases local interference because they become part of the radiation pattern at ground level. Grounding should always be done with the shortest distance to the actual dirt entry point where a rod may be driven. Ground rods come in many sizes but a length of 6 feet or more is highly recommended. Use rods that have a bright dipped copper clad finish to the steel core or solid brass for best long term results. Keep the earth around the rod wet as often as possible to increase effectiveness and dissipation capability". End of Quote.


Now I don't know about you, but I've got enough trouble with Inteference as it is. Now, as you told me to do, I am currently (as we speak), hooked into the AC neutral Service Ground (House Ground) as they call it. Yeah, my ground loop is gone, but I'm still getting that Crackling 60 Hz hum. Which is one of the few reasons why I'm on here every single night, causing such a big stink. (God help me) And no, I'm not the God guy from the other site either arguing about different metals. LMAO!



Like I've been telling everyone here, I'm not against doing something that someone has asked me to try. I'm not trying to sell anybody short either. I am using everyone's advice here, with a little of my own self action added in.
And let me tell ya, I don't have to wait, my head is, and has been spinning for two weeks now over this Humming interference that seems to be strongest on channels 3,4,5,6 & 7.

It may or may not be a 60 Hz hum at all. (But it most certaintly sounds like it) It may be from not having ground radials, or a Balun, or the proper shielded coax. In which I have all of these items in my possession now thank the Lord. I've also ordered two high quality Amphenol PL-259 connectors, Good 60/40 solder too. Yep, I'm doing it all! Oh yes my friend, I'm not stopping until I get to the bottom of this rediculous, but tideous, costly adventure.

And I'll tell you something else too L.C.
I'm really hoping that it is RF interference that is screwing up my precious hobby, and not the dreaded AC mains hum problem that could be doing me in.
As far as I know, eliminating Mains hum may or may not be able to be done. And to do it correctly, The power company technicians will have to be called in. Resulting in a radical dollar increase in my efforts to achieve 80 or 90 % noise free reception.

As far as I know, no-one has told me that my transmit was dirty or humming, which is in my favor. So there is hope. All I'm waiting on now is the Delrin Rod & the Amphenol Connectors and I'll be on my way with further information, resolutions I hope, and answers. Bet your bottom dollar too that I'm still waiting, (like Booty Monster) lol! for someone to produce clear, proven, evidence from a reputable source, that by hooking my ground up to the AC neutral Service Ground is the best or only choice. Especially when DX Engineering says not to.

So far, this article from DX engineering says specifically not to. And with good reason from what I've comprehended from the article. Let me say this last piece here before I sign off, as I said, currently, I am hooked into the AC Neutral Service (House Ground) as you specified. Currently, it seems to be ok. I will not deny it. But as I mentioned before a few days ago, I had my mast ground connected to the separate (Earth Ground) rod I placed 8' into the ground. At that time, either one, it did not matter, Neither produced any elevated noise, nor did either get rid of the noise. (the presumed crackling 60 Hz hum that is).

But here's the kicker, Like I also stated yesterday or so, all of a sudden, there was a nasty Ground Loop buzz when I returned my mast's ground cable to the (Earth Ground) rod. And take my left nut if I'm mistaken, but it was not there before at all from day one till about a week or so after I had my station up & running. Beats the H-LL out of me. So here I am, back on the AC Neutral Service (House Ground).

So much for choices in the matter eh? It's like someone is screwing me. So for now, here is what I'm going to do. "Like you said to do", Soon, I'm going to isolate the antenna, I'm going to replace that crappy unshielded gray coax I bought with a good grade of LM-400 with high quality Amphenol connectors. And as soon as my 8" diameter by 1' long PVC comes in, I'm going to put my Balun 1' or less from my feedpoint. I also purchased a snap on ferrite for the power cord of my radio.

I will eventually obtain a Polyphaser, but right now I'm kind of strapped, but it will come to past. Oh yeah, my GPK is in also. There's half my problem right there I bet. Oh yes L.C., Oh yes, I'm going all the way here. I will not stop. I'm also losing my mind! Now don't tell me it ain't obvious now. lol! Oh yes, I've totally lost it! BUT I FEEL GREAT! LMAO!


PS: Anyways, my fingers are a hurtin now from typing, Work was a real devil tonight and it's time to put this o'l nutso to bed. Now what I should have done is hire someone to do a documentary on all this. There's no doubt in my mind that I've got the fever & I can't stop flappin my jaw Now there's a real problem


Later bud.

 

[loosecannon]

LOL!, no, it was definitely not an insult.

the reason i asked is because noise from the AC mains is just not something we radio people even think about much.

it just doesnt usually happen unless there is a problem.

seriously, do a search here in the forum for noise coming from the house electrical system, and i doubt you will find too many threads on it besides this one.

your broadcast band AM radio may pick up some noise, but that is .54mhz, whereas your CB is 27mhz and shouldnt pick up the same noise.

so, as long as your main breaker box has a grounding buss in it, the neutral wire is connected to this buss, there is a ground wire going from this buss to the cold water pipe inlet, and there is also a ground wire going from this buss to a ground rod; then you really should take the house electrical system out of the equation.

you are going to drive yourself crazy looking for a problem that isnt there! LOL

bottom line; all of the ground rods that you have in the ground should be connected together. (i dont know about the garage install since its a different building, and maybe that ground rod doesnt have to be part of the "ground system" we are discussing)

everyone who grounds their station properly does it this way.
it does not cause more noise in your receive.

have you considered the transformer up on the power pole that feeds your neighborhood might be the source of your noise?
this happens quite a lot especially in older neighborhoods.
the power company doesnt consider it a problem because the transformer is still doing its job, its just doing it very noisily. LOL
if the transformer is the culprit and is creating noise in your radio; it is their responsibility to fix it, and it wont cost you a dime.
they wont want to fix it, but they have to by law.
FCC states that their equipment must not cause harmful interference.

that article you are referring to IS INDEED about RF ground.
what they are talking about is grounding all of your station equipment.

yes, we ground the equipment for safety, but the reason they state not to connect your station ground wire to a cold water pipe etc., is because if your ground wire is long enough,it can actually radiate like its part of the antenna.

in radio, we try to keep the ground wire that goes from the station equipment to the ground rod less than a 1/4 wavelength long.
for CB, thats about 8.5 feet.

honestly, people make a bigger deal out of that length thing than they really need to.
the chances of your ground wire being the exact right length to radiate on the frequency you are on are pretty low.

i have been studying this "grounding your station" stuff for years, and i will lay out exactly how to set up your radio station.
if you do it this way, you are doing everything you can to be safe from lightning, and have a good RF ground at the same time.

ok, you've got your antenna mounted on the roof, isolated from the mast, RF choke at the feedpoint, and the groundplane kit installed.(NO ground wire attached to the antenna bracket, the mast, or the tripod. NO ground wire ok?)

you run your coax down from the antenna to the polyphaser, and connect the polyphaser to the ground rod you put in for the antenna.

you connect the antenna ground rod to the ground rod for the house electrical system.

going from the polyphaser to your radio room you have a length of coax.

in the radio room, along the back of your radio desk or whatever, you install a ground buss bar.

each piece of station equipment that has a metal chassis has a 10ga. or bigger wire connecting the metal case of the piece of equipment to the ground buss bar.

a ground rod for your station equipment is installed as close to that buss bar as possible, preferably less than 8 feet if possible. if not, just as close as you can.

a grounding strap is run from the radio room buss bar to that ground rod installed just outside the radio room.

this new ground rod is connected with heavy gauge wire to one of your other two ground rods, whichever is closer.

now if lightning strikes your antenna, it has to go through that polyphaser to get to the rest of your grounding system, which has been vastly improved from what it was with just one lone ground rod grounding the house.
now you have three!

all of your ground rods are connected together.

that is the way to do it.

i completely understand if you want to check what ive written here against other sources. i would if it was my money, and my house we were dealing with. LOL

if you still have noise after all of that, then the noise is external to your house, and thats where you start looking.
you have done everything you can at your end.

good luck with all this,
LC

 

[High Voltage Mobile NJ]

dont worry , its not your equipment !!!!!!!!!!! i get channel 13 flutter when i get close to the NJT building . its a spin off harmonic on a nother frequency.
total weird i no. :headbang

 

[cominatyalive]

Thanks guys,

Well, it's too late. I went crazy days ago. :bdh:

Especially when I ordered the 2' 1 1/4" Delrin rod.

So what does the guy do? He shipped it to me in two 1' sections! :headbang So I had to reorder from another supplier.

Just as well because I also had the wrong diameter also. I should have measured the inside diameter of my mast pole before ordering. Well, I have the new, full, 2' 1 1/2" delrin rod now. But I need 10 or 12" of it turned down to about 1 3/8" before it will slip into the pipe. Which is actually 1.0394 inside diameter.

The problem is, I do not have any way of turning it down besides sanding it by hand which would take forever. So I am going to bring it to a local machining company nearby and see if they can put it on a lathe.

Other than this total hold-up, the weather here has turned this week to Rain & Crap. Figures, as I now have all the items I need to redo my antenna. But no time, & uncooperative weather to boot. I have the 8" X 1' PVC pipe for my Balun, I have the Ground Plane Kit, I have the Delrin Rod (Which needs to be turned down to the correct size), I have the new coax, but again, it is not the grade I wanted. It does not have the solid dialectric. Talk about screwed & two wire Romex. :headbang (joke)

I went with the LMR-400. It has the foil shield & solid core, but it has the cheap aluminum braiding, or steel braiding, (at this point I could really give a Holy Crap out of pure depression), and it does not have the solid dialectric housing around the core, it has the friggen foam. So as you can see why I am going crazy & totally disgusted.

So, for now, I decided to use this piece of crap coax anyways until spring because I'm getting low on funds, but when my financial situation gets better, I am going to plop down a cool $250.00 and get the Good RG-213 with double copper braid & the solid dialectric and make the switch next spring.

I also have one of the PL-259 amphenol connectors on one end of the LMR-400, but soldering the braid through the 4 holes of the inner connector for the braid was a real bi_tch. I am using the 60/40 solder, but it seemed to just not want to flow that good into the holes. I am using a mini butane torch & so far the connector is ok & not shorted, but I'm still sitting here wondering how that cheap a_ss white foam held out after torching the connector. And the only reason I'm doing all that is because the coax also came with the wrong connectors. N connectors instead of the PL-259's.

Other than that, I'm hoping I did a good enough soldering job.

So to make this long Cinderella story short, I'm just waiting to get that Delrin Rod turned down to the correct size some way.

Thanks guys for the feedback,

L.C., I will try grounding everything the way you stated. However, it will be some time before I can afford a polyphaser.

Also, You were talking about the Mast's ground cable length. Well, my cable is about 25' long or more. There's no way I can go shorter because my roof crest at the bottom of the mast is a solid 25'.

I did understand you on the equipment ground cable only being 8' or less. That I can do, but I cannot make the Mast's ground cable any shorter. A ways back, I thought someone once said I could tie my ground cable drop to the drop of the electrical service ground drop on the roof where my power comes from the pole? Is that legal? I kind of think not.

If I did that, my Mast's ground cable will still be about 13 foot or more. I would normally think that this would be illegal, right? I would think so, so I will just run my mast ground like you said to the house Neutral service ground. And yes, it is bonded inside my circuit box to the water pipe ground as well.

I will get another ground rod for my equipment ground. BTW, I already have a small ground bus bar already outside the basement wall grounding to the chassis & my coax, which is tied into my Mast's ground cable as well, so If I did not mistake your directions, I'm not too far off.

Yes, I do believe something is radiating. And I am positive it is from my mains power, or maybe as you stated, from the outside pole transformer. The transformer for everyone on the block for cable television and a big power transformer is out back in the alley of my friggen back yard. Just my luck eh?

And, as my previous post, I have a new piece of Sh_t interfering noise coming through my radio only in the evenings. It's like a pulsating house alarm or some Gangbanger's car alarm. I'm sure of it. I figured it was some ass-h_le with some kind of fancy car alarm who works first shift. I am on second shift & my radio is ok Mon-Fri in the mornings. But on the weekends, it does not matter if it's the mornings or not, this pulsating noise is there all day long. Some Bast_rd on first shift see. So please excuse my built up anger, but as you can see I've about had enough. (Reaching for his AK-47).

It's kind of like a pulsating cybertron noise like a star wars light sabre. I am hoping my GPK, the thicker LMR-400 coax & the Balun might take care of a few of these problems if not all of them, but as I said, I can't do a thing until I have the Delrin rod ready & cooperative weather. I also bought some Dacron guy rope so I can get rid of the steel guys I have now.

Yeah, crazy you say? I'm at the point to where I'm sick in my stomach every day. Well, I will keep you posted. As soon as I can isolate my antenna with the Delrin Rod, Then I will begin taking down the mast as soon as I can.

In the meantime, I will take what you said about the article with a grain of salt & read some more into it. I believe you when you say you have been studying this topic for some time now. And I am now starting to see your perspective, but the article did say (No Neutral Service Grounds or water pipes for your ground). That's why that little red flag shot up & I am now questioning it with a lot of scrutiny. So please forgive my impatience.

What did you expect from a green horn anyways, Sirloin?


Wish me luck,
James

 

[loosecannon]

LOL James,

im sure you know that you are not the first or last radio nut to go through a frustrating period of time while getting your station up and running.
everyone goes through this at one time or another.

time to sit back, have a beer, and whatever else calms you down, and just chill out a bit.

OHM-ma ne pad me-OHM LOL.

where do i start? hmmm...

lets start with your biggest worry; that its your house electrical system that is either causing or exacerbating the interference problem.

i have to apologize to you for not suggesting this test earlier, but its usually done in mobile installations when the vehicle's accessories are causing interference to the CB.

simple test to see whether the noise is coming in from the power source or from the antenna system.

turn the radio on to one of the channels experiencing the noise.
unscrew antenna coax from the back of the radio, and set aside.

is the noise still there?
if the noise is still there, then its coming in from the power source.
if the noise is gone, then the antenna is picking up the noise.

if the noise is gone when you remove the antenna from the radio, then suspect your neighbors, and/or the transformer behind your house.

if the noise is still there just as loud as it was before, then you can worry about your house electrical system.

now, about the coax.

dude, you already have the best coax you can get.
LMR400 is superior to RG213.

the braid is not aluminum or steel, it is copper. (i am not guessing here)
yes, copper comes silver colored as well as copper colored.
all LMR400 has a high velocity gas injected closed cell foam dielectric.
im not sure what you think is wrong with that, but i can assure you, there is nothing wrong with that.

as for the connectors, i thought i remembered someone telling you specifically to have the company you ordered the coax from put the ends on for you.
i told you this because i know how hard in can be for a beginner to properly put the ends on.

let me ask you this; are you going to trust the ends once you get the system all installed and up in the air, or are you always going to be wondering if you did it right and if thats why things arent going your way when they arent?

see if you can find a place locally that will solder the PL-259's on for you.
that will be your best bet.
you are right to worry about the condition of the dielectric if you have torched the connector.

now what, lets see, oh; the delrin rod.

i will first admit that i have never cut delrin so i dont know how it tools.

assuming that it will tool ok; if you have a table saw, you can turn it down to size yourself.
you will need a blade with a lot of teeth since you are cutting plastic.

set the fence of the saw at about 1/16" less than the inside diameter of your mast.
clamp a stop onto the fence so the rod cannot be pushed further into the blade than you want it to.

lower the blade until it is just touching the delrin rod.

now you can feed the rod into the saw, slicing off just a little bit.
remove the rod, rotate it a bit, and repeat.
keep doing this until you have "turned" the whole thing down.

if you have never used a table saw before; i would not recommend this, but if you have experience with one, this will work for you.

as for the choke balun; to keep the weight to a minimum, cut off the portion that you dont need.
you are only doing 4 or 5 turns, and with 1/2" coax, that only equates to 2 or three inches.
so cut your PVC down to 4 or 5 inches and you should be fine.
(wasnt sure if you were planning on hanging the whole thing off your mast)

on to the ground wire.
the solution to your dilemma about the mast ground cable is simple.
NO MAST GROUND CABLE!!!
i thought i said this already.

yes, that is what im saying.
dont use it.
dont need it.
dont do it.
got it?

your antenna will be grounded through the coax shield and protected from lightning by using the polyphaser mounted at the ground rod.

i understand you said that you cant afford one yet, but think about what you are proposing.
you want to connect a ground wire to a mast that has nothing electrically attached to it.
you have isolated your antenna from this mast by using the delrin rod.
attaching a ground wire to the feedpoint of the antenna would defeat the entire purpose of isolating the antenna from the mast.
see where im going with this?

for now, just substitute a barrel connector for the polyphaser, (remember, you have two runs of coax. one from the antenna to the polyphaser at the ground rod, and one from the polyphaser to the radio equipment.) and using a hose clamp and some ground wire; connect the barrel connector to the ground rod.
that way, when you get your polyphaser, you can just stick it in place and go.

you will be fine running without the polyphaser until you get it. just disconnect the coax and put it out the window if there is a big electrical storm. (DO NOT put the end of the coax in a glass jar. that is very old, very bad advice)

the buss bar that grounds your equipment to your antenna ground rod at this time; why did you not mention this before when describing your setup?

have you considered that because this wire is very long, that it might be picking up and radiating stray RF and other noises?
you might try disconnecting the buss bar from everything and see if that makes any difference in your interference. hey, its worth a shot.

once you get a ground rod pounded in right outside the equipment location, connect the other ground rods directly to it.

ground rods connected to ground rods, ground wire from equipment ground rod to buss bar (shorter than 8 feet if at all possible), and short ground wires from each piece of equipment to the buss bar.

this will help you prevent ground loops.

as for the article; they are telling you not to rely on a water pipe connection alone to be the ground connection for your equipment.

once you put a ground rod in the ground outside the radio room, your equipment has a short, direct path to ground, and will not be affected by that ground rod being connected to the other ground rods.

electricity takes the path of least resistance right?
so, if your equipment is looking for a path to ground, and you have provided a great path by pounding an 8 foot ground rod into the ground right outside your radio room, then the equipment is going to take that path to ground.
it will not run all around your house by way of your ground rod connections looking for another path.
longer wires have more resistance.

and just in case i havent said it enough; all ground rods should be connected together, and they should be connected to the ground rod that is connected to the house electrical system.

one more thing, when running all these ground wires around the house to connect all your rods together; remember that lightning doesnt like sharp bends.
always make a gradual, radial turn instead of making a 90* bend in the ground wires.

best of luck to you, and remember, this is just cb radio.
chances are, even if you do get rid of all your noise problems; there's only going to be a few idiots out there to talk to anyway. LOL

LC

 

[cominatyalive]

Hello L.C.,

Dang,

And I thought I was the only crazy book writer here. lol! Just kidding.
Hey! first I want to sincerely thank you for all of this good advice. And I appreciate it greatly.

Yes, you did say it already & yes, I did remember you said to unhook the mast ground cable. But I had a question, Although this may help me, wouldn't this be a careless thing to do? I know nothing electrical is hooked to it, but trees also have nothing hooked to them but they still get hit. High objects are very prone to hits by lightning. Dry weather also creates positive electrons to form on steel masts, etc making these items very prone for hits whether you have anything electrical or not hooked to them. So I'm just kind of torn a bit on your advice.


What I'm getting at, is that my mast alone at the tallest point is a cool 39' from the ground, and it's a rigid 1 1/4" conduit. Very likely to get hit maybe? Well, that's what I have learned throughout the years. So I just wanted your further input on that situation if you could please. But I will remove it as you said to do. And yes, the cable is quite long. Although the coax from the feed point may be grounded as you stated for me to do, the mast is still at high risk whether or not it's below my antenna or above it. But like I said, I'm not selling you or anything short here & I will try it soon.

OK, Back to the coax, I will try unhooking the coax from the radio and see if the noise goes away. Can't remember if I tried it or not, but we'll see soon enough.

Yes L.C. you did specifically state to have the supplier install the Pl-259's, but I bought from a place that only had the 100' bundles. And I don't think they even carried connectors because I looked to see if they did & they did not. So I figured it must come with PL-259's already on the coax, but it did not, it came with the (N) connectors. So I had to purchase my two PL-259's separately. That's why I am doing it myself.

However, when I said I torched the connectors, it was perhaps an over statement to some extent. It was just the first time I had ever done it, that's all. I am confident they were soldered & will hold up, but as I said, it was (my first time) for me. Also, I just didn't go ahead and do it without studying up on it first. I read quite a bit on how to do it before I began. If I may say so, I think I did one h_ll of a job, but again, since it was the first time, I came across a couple issues, "solder seemingly not flowing into the holes like I expected it to, although it did go into the holes, I was left to wonder to, and to what extent.

Besides, everyone knows that 60/40 solder is crap when it comes to capillary flow action. Too bad acid core cannot be used. It flows like honey compared to 60/40. Besides the sluggish characteristics of the 60/40, there really weren't any other issues about my workmanship. And no L.C., it really wasn't that hard as everyone is cracking it up to be to install your own PL-259 connectors. Even for my first time, it was really relatively simple if anyone has just a little patience & common sense. I think the hardest part of doing it, was just that, "deciding to do it". And for everyone else out here, let me tell you it's really not that hard at all. You just have to know what your doing & have a little faith in yourself. And if you fail, do it again & again till you get it right.

Anyways, I did a pretty decent job on it. And we'll see just how good a job I did after I install the new coax. As far as the coax goes, Well, I thought the solid Dielectric was the best. Yes, it does have the foam, but no plastic housing around the core before the foam. From what you've stated, I suppose it is a fairly good grade, but it's just not what I wanted. But I got what I paid for. But let me assure you, that this is not the reason things are not going my way and yes L.C., I do trust my work. And if it doesn't, I learned from it. But I think my solder job will be just fine.

Again you were right L.C., with all the headbanging I've been doing, I just might have hung that whole 1' of the 8" pvc balun out there on my antenna mast. You're right, I have seen pictures of how some cut off what they don't need, so it's a big relief that you reminded me before I went ahead and did it.


I do have a table saw. I will try setting it up to size down my Delrin. I thought that was a pretty good idea actually. But there is this place nearby that I know of that could put it on a lathe for me. That way it will not be wavy & it will be done according to measurement of the inside diameter of the mast. I will be using verniers to measure it soon, perhaps just a .001 under size so it will slip into the pipe, but not be too loose. Besides, it won't cost me hardly anything because my Brother in-law knows the owners. But if not, out will come the table saw.

But I think you misunderstood me about the ground cable of my mast. Yes, I know I have the Delrin isolating my antenna from the mast, but what about the mast itself? Yes, I heard you 10 times already, but a mast 40' up in the air, Isolated from the antenna or not, to me, is like BENJAMIN FRANKLIN revisited. And after all, as long as the antenna is isolated with the Delrin, what diff does it make? Shouldn't a person be as safe as possible? Does that make sense? And how could you disagree with this? Are we on the same page or am I still not understanding you.

Just answer this one question please, Isn't removing a grounding cable from my mast, a cable that is constantly grounding any stray electrons from my mast into the ground, ( and let me tell you, electrons can build up in any material if the conditions are right for it) such as trees? Is this a safe thing to do L.C. ??? And if I'm still missing something or if you have your reasons why this would be a safe practice, please explain so I know where your coming from. Do you not think Lightning would ever strike a steel conduit pole 40' up in the air at one point or another? H_LL, trees get hit even more. So I'm having a hard time understanding your theory here. And yes, remember, I know very well that the antenna is isolated with the Delrin. If you ask me, it really makes no difference, A pipe up in the air, is still a pipe up in the air. Don't you agree? or no? and if not, please, please explain.

Geez, don't you just love me? :wub:

Quote:
yes, that is what im saying.
dont use it.
dont need it.
dont do it.
got it?


Yes, I did get you L.C., Chuckling.....


That's the only issue I have with you. All the other grounding will be done as you said eventually, and as soon as I get a Poly-phaser.


Hey! You know what L.C. your a great dude to put up with this greener than green, greenhorn! lol!

BTW,

Don't sell us CB'rs too short L.C., Actually, there is quite some talking going on in my area from local cb'rs every single day & night. It's really starting to make a comeback. And if I'm being thought of as an Idiot, more power to me & those who are keeping CB alive. After all, isn't this the foundation of amateur radio? Shame on you! LOL! but I understood what you meant. Yeah, there is a few screw faces out there from time to time.

Thank you L.C. for all the time & patience you have shown to me. You are greatly appreciated. I am learning here. That's why I question your tactics. Please don't give up on me, I'm really eating up all of your advice. I cannot ever thank you enough.


73's


J.

 

[loosecannon]

thanks james.

i find that most people reach a point where they feel they are too good to offer help to someone who is just joining the hobby.

i for one hope i never reach that point.
also, i am at work while i do this, so i probably have a bit more time to explain things than most. LOL
i think we have scared everyone else off with the length of our posts!

questioning me is a good thing, and i never take offense to it.
heck, according to my wife im wrong 67.8% of the time, so i need someone to check my thinking. LOL

i hope i did not come off as condescending in my last post.
it was not meant that way.

about the coax connectors; i tend to make it sound harder than it is so that people will do exactly what you did and do some research and then decide for themselves if its something they think they can tackle.
if you tell them it is easy, they tend to slack off. LOL
sounds like you did fine.
as long as the solder holes in the connector body look as though the solder is concave, then you are probably fine.
if its blotchy and flaky, then you might have a problem.
also, not sure if you are using a flux core solder or not, but it helps if you do.

not sure if what you meant about the inner conductor of the coax having a jacket on it.
did you mean that you thought the inner conductor would be an insulated wire?
if so, there is no coax that i know of that is made that way.
not saying it doesnt exist, just that ive never seen it, and ive used most of the different coaxes used for radio.

as for the grounding of the mast thing; i do see your point, and i cannot say for sure that it would cause a problem if you ran a ground wire from the mast to one of your ground rods.
it would be an easy test to find out if it was creating any noise, which would be the only thing i can think of that might happen.
remove the mast ground wire from the ground rod and see if that changes anything.
if not, then re-connect it and it should be fine.

as for the safety of it, i cant say ive ever heard this come up before, but this whole isolate the antenna from the mast idea is a newer one.

the way i see it, (and remember that 67.8% thing!) is that the lightning is looking for a path to ground.
your antenna has one, and its also higher in the air than your mast.
if the antenna has a path to ground and the mast doesnt, then i would think the lightning would find the antenna before it found the mast.


but with safety in mind,i say go ahead and do it. ground the mast and if it causes noise; disconnect the ground from it.

you have inspired me to do some reading on lightning.
the reason is that i have a way i think it works, and want to check it before i give advice on it.

the way i see it, the antenna is more likely to get hit BECAUSE it is grounded, and by grounding the mast, you might actually be making it more attractive to lightning, but again, im not going to advise you NOT to ground that mast because at this point i would rather err on the side of caution.

glad to hear there are actually some people to talk to in your area.
some people these days spend lots of money, time, and effort setting up their station only to find that they are the only one in town with a cb!

i am a die-hard CB'er. i got my ham ticket when i was 14 years old, and found it to be boring, pretentious, and full of itself.
i went back to CB and let the license expire. i plan on getting it again someday, but only so i can put up a really big antenna for "10 meters" LOL.
to me, CB is much more fun, and i am the type of person that enjoys a bit of irreverence. i also have an inherent problem with authority, and all the rules of ham radio make it seem pretty inhibitory to me.

i noticed your avatar and im assuming that is you with the guitar.
i am a musician also , and in my 20's i was sure that i was going to be the next big thing. LMAO i think im getting a bit too old now. (im 35)

these days i enjoy playing my guitar over the radio.
i wired a 1/4" jack into the audio amplifier of my CB radio and i can plug in anything from a guitar to a mixer to a studio mic.

once i get all the equipment together, i will have my own little radio station!
the locals just LOVE IT! when i key on them with a blues riff. LOL

ok, take it easy and keep me posted.
seeing as how im the only one reading this thread anymore, id better not give up on you! J/K!
LC

 

[cominatyalive]

Hello L.C.

And to all who may be keeping up with this thread,"God help you". Yes, I've been playing off & on for about 35 years now. I currently own about 7 guitars but may sell a couple on Ebay soon to fund this IMAX dilemma I've been having. LOL!

Ya know what? as far as you've been hanging in here with me through all of this, I really have to hand it to ya. I cannot thank you enough.

OK, I'm going to make this a short one today, but as of yesterday, I was able to get my 8" PVC pipe cut down to 3 1/2" wide now. Perfect for 4 to 6 turns of the LMR-400. Nice job actually & I was able to smooth the edges nicely on my Father's belt sander. The pipe was too big to cut on a band saw & very dangerous if your saw blade is not a fine tooth one. So please! anyone attempting this, I'll tell ya right now to just use masking tape around the pipe, drill a pilot hole and use a simple Jig Saw with a (FINE TOOTH) blade. It will cut nicely like butter.

So I'm all set except this Delrin Rod Thingy. But I have a set of Vernier Calipers now and will measure the inside Diameter of my 1 1/4" mast pipe. As soon as I can get the rod one foot or ten inches inside my mast, I will be doing all of the modifications that we have been talking about here.

Before I go, I wanted to share with you my efforts yesterday. I totally removed the Ground Cable from my Neutral Service Ground & From my Mast, and from my equipment. Still that horrible Hum on all channels but the noisiest on 5, 6, & 7.

I unhooked the Coax from my radio. No hum, but still some static like it was still coming through my mains. I used my AM transistor radio & this hum is definitely coming from my Mains from the house. When I hold this radio up to the glass on the Meter outside, the AM radio hums, (The same 60Hz Hum!). When I hold the Radio up to my circuit breakers in the box, (The same hum).

But L.C., How about when I only used my Car battery as the power supply? I still got that hum. Why?

Maybe I still had my Ground cable hooked up? I cannot recall.
So I will try the car battery once more while I have the Ground Cable disconnected.

It doesn't get any worse than this does it?

Oh yeah! all day again yesterday, I am getting this (Star Wars Light Sabre) noise drifting in & out. All DAY LONG! ON MY SUNDAY! it's like I said before, like someone who works first shift & is home on the weekend with their car alarm armed or something, as this interference is gone in the early mornings & every afternoon as long as it's Mon - Fri.

Oh yeah, I thought I would tell you that as I am DXing, I use the RF gain all the way up, But even if I turn it almost off, Still the hum.

So I'm hoping the Balun & GPK will help me somehow. Or maybe better yet, the better shielded LMR-400 coax that I'm about to put on is what I should say here.

All I'm waiting for is to get the Delrin rod turned down so I can commence on all of these modifications. And the Weather to settle down.




(When your down & out, everyone wants to screw ya) :bdh:

 

[loosecannon]

thats weird about the RF gain.

most of us leave it all the way up all the time.
only turning it down when someone pegs the needle on your meter.

does the hum get worse with the RF gain all the way up, and better with the RF gain most of the way down or is it the same no matter where you set the RF gain?

you might do well to get yourself a CB walkie talkie.
get one that has all 40 channels.

then, you can walk around the neighborhood and point the antenna of the walkie talkie at different things and see if the noise gets better or worse.

tune it to the channels you really get the interference (hum), and point the antenna at the power transformer.
point it at your neighbors house.

do the same with the star wars type noise.
just walk around the neighborhood waving that antenna around like a lunatic. LOL

if you really want to pinpoint the noise source, start lowering the antenna, and finding the noise again, until you have found the source.

i think a CB walkie talkie would be a VERY beneficial thing to have in your particular situation.
(also nice to hear how your radio sounds on the air!)

you can find these walkie talkies everywhere. check ebay and your local craigslist.

many people bought them and never use them.
shouldnt be too expensive.

take it easy,
LC

 

[cominatyalive]

Yes, the noise gets louder with the RF gain pegged all the way up. Less when I turn it down. But I still leave it all the way up for the same reason you do. I'll get one of those Walkie Talkie Cbs when I get a chance & try playing detective around the block if I can find a decent one.

As for my progress on my Imax, there hasn't been any this week due to my job schedule and mostly because of the bad weather here. It rained all this past week & has been cold. 22 degrees this Sunday morning & only in the 40's today. Plus, to totally tire me out, I've been working on my van all week replacing the right drive axle assembly & front motor mount. Aside from a few pulled shoulder muscles and a knot on top of my left shoulder, I did manage to get outside today before it got dark.

I re-connected the mast's ground cable, and hooked it back up to the House's service ground, ground bar. I also ran twin cables from this Neutral service house ground rod to the other seperate ground rod I was using. I also hooked up the equipment ground cable to the hous'e service ground. Yes, they are all tied together now to the house's service ground as the NEC says to do. So I thought you'd be happy to hear this.

As for the noise, it's still there, but I think it dropped a 1/2 db or so. The noise seems to not be as bad now as well. I did not hear the star wars light sabre sound today either. Perhaps, if it was a car alarm, they were nowhere in my vacinity today. So I was happy.

The skip came early today. I'd say around 10:00am or so & lasted all the way to 9:45pm or so before it disappeared again. I talked briefly to a guy from Cape Cod Massatuchetts and he told me I was loud & clear. I heard guys from Texas, West Virginia, Canada/New York border, Georgia, and Florida to boot. Being able to talk to people at these distances amazes me. Even with this P.O.C. Imax. I know the skip allows us to talk at these distances, but as I mentioned before, my President/Zachary T. Base radio has been re-worked and modified to go beyond the 40 channels, Has new caps, two high power caps installed in it. It has new seating compound for the caps and all the knobs have been cleaned. It also has a power increase knob installed in it. Allowing me a full 10 watts. So it's been fun lately when I'm DXing in the skip.

I still don't know everything about this unit yet, but I will in time. So for now, I have all my grounds tied to the house ground. I must admit, I do not see any increase in noise. But I do see a positive decrease in the noise level. When the weather gets a bit warmer I'm going to make my move with taking the Imax back down for all the modifications. I will also try to improve my SWR a bit. I know they say that 1.4 to even 2.5 is good, but I know better than that. Heck, with my old Astroplane, I got a constant 1.1 believe it or not. So I'm hoping I can tune this 2000 a bit better. Currently, I'm still getting a good 1.4 on my SWR.

Well, it's getting late & I'm working 1st shift today. The skip has been gone for an hour or so now & the locals are chatting on channel 10. We've got a few guys up here across the border into Kenosha/Racine WI who talk regulary every night. So I'm going to listen for a few and hit the hay.

Hope everyone had a great weekend.



James

 

[cominatyalive]

Update 11/3/2009

Finally today,

The weather was nice enough to get up on the roof. I finally installed the GPK kit for my Imax 2000. I have not had a chance to see any differences yet. I will be installing the Balun & the better coax soon. I just needed to get the GPK kit out of the way. I still need to turn down the Delrin rod. I used the Vernier caliber & I need to take .125 off 12" of the 2' Delrin rod. But I do not have access to a lathe. I may try the Table saw like Loosecannon suggested or a belt sander. Will keep everyone posted on my progress. Sorry it's been so long since my last post as I have also been having computer problems at home and finishing up a work bench I've been building for the garage.

J.

 

[loosecannon]

well, hope things go your way!

good luck,
LC

 

[cominatyalive]

Thanks L.C.,

Well, the weather finally broke & yes! I was able to install the LMR-400 coax, and my home made RF choke balun. I have posted a few new pictures of my Imax 2000 & the mods in my profile if anyone cares to check it out. My oldest son & I did all of the mods last weekend but as I was nearing getting my radio back online, as fate would have it, I messed up the last PL-259 amphenol connector I needed to hook up my coax to the radio. Yes, L.C. I shorted it out from too much solder flow from too much heat. I am finding out that it's not so easy soldering these on. But I did learn a thing or two from my mistake. So I am not able to share with any of you any results from my efforts just yet. But as soon as I get more connectors in, I'll be here to share my findings. I am hoping tomorrow or so I will be back up and running. But this time, I will be taking my time.

James

 

[loosecannon]

thats a bummer james.

have you found anyplace locally that you can buy PL-259's and things at?

always good to have a local source for odds and ends.
LC