I think over the years I've learned that besides all the peak and tunes, echo, 1/4 ratio..etc… It all comes down to the "Voice Tone" and the person behind it.
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Dead Key vs Big Swing
- Thread starter secret squirrel
- Start date
You guys gotta watch this, died laughing.
How much power does a real amplifier put out? One KW? It seems like more power is always needed.
Real amplifiers are actually linear and come in a variety of sizes. They put out as much as the transistors or toobs will allow without overheating or splattering. The difference between a good and a bad amp is often an operator.
Hi guys, I just have to chime in here to explain my observations with my set up. First of all I am running a Galaxy DX 949 peaked and tuned into an RM Italy KL 203P then out through a pair of Wilson trucker 2000's with Wilson's co phased coax. I have messed (hours) of tuning and this is what I have arrived at: 3-4 watt deadkey from the radio gives me a 50 watt deadkey with the amp on. It does not swing alot on average power but will do 100 pep. Audio tests that I recorded seem very good, nice and clean with mic gain set at about 3 o'clock. I have tried less deadkey from the radio but this seems to show decent results on my MJF meter and the audio quality is clear and not overmodulated. To be honest I have pretty much accepted this as normal for my situation. Clean, loud and no distortion. Does this seem good? Thoughts?
Shadetree Mechanic
Delaware Base Station 808
Welcome Mad Dog! From what I have heard about the 203, the dead key has to be kept low to keep from burning the amp up. Having a high dead key also reduces your modulation. With a 50w key swinging to 100w that would give you 50% modulation. This means that your signal strength might be good to a distant radio, but the audio will be quiet or not as loud as it could be. With the dead key at 25w, you would have 100% modulation swinging to 100w. If you are talking to a distant station and the 25w dead key isn't enough, you might be able to turn the dead key up and it might help get you there. Or it might not.
Would it be 50% modulation, or a boatload of compression, or maybe some other explanation all together?
I say this because I’ve heard a number of setups over the years that were obnoxiously loud, but had little “swing” on the TX end.
I’m not convinced, at least not yet, that the carrier to peak ratio (once an amplifier is added) is necessarily indicative of “loudness”...for lack of a better word.
FWIW...20 some years ago I ran a SS121 with 8 watt carrier into a Palomar 225 with 2 1446s. There was no forward swing at all...dead key and modulated both showed a tad over 200 watts. But the rig was absurdly loud on the RX end. And it bled like a pig, too. Modulation wise...if comparing carrier to peak...zero percent, I guess.
Thanks for the responses guys, when I lower the deadkey to 25 watts then it will not swing to 100 on pep. I do realize that pep is not as important but even at 25 watt deadkey, on average power swing is still very little if any. It seems that it doesnt want to swing with any input power or gain adjustment. Only on pep.
Swing or no swing, well from my understanding am is about the carrier signal and modulation and sideband is about modulation and swing. I believe its careful balance between input watts and what your amp is capable of realistically. I tend to tune for more carrier and less swing on am.
What you want, is clarity...
Cut thru the mustard...
Anything will swing...
But...
Carrier punches thru...else heterodyne - so slide on in...on their frequency...(tune to their carrier -dead-beat-with-it)
Remember the Audio in the envelope is what gets decoded...
That's called Suppressed Carrier - Dual Sideband - as if you needed to know. Because if you swing, great, but you'll need power of carrier - because your carrier still has to get up in power level to obtain the punch thru (squash/Pumpkin-whatever) even if your sideband info is peaking out...
None of the above is going to do you any good if you're a pinched up overdriven mess...
If you sound better on FM - then your not doing it right...
Cut thru the mustard...
Anything will swing...
But...
Carrier punches thru...else heterodyne - so slide on in...on their frequency...(tune to their carrier -dead-beat-with-it)
Remember the Audio in the envelope is what gets decoded...
That's called Suppressed Carrier - Dual Sideband - as if you needed to know. Because if you swing, great, but you'll need power of carrier - because your carrier still has to get up in power level to obtain the punch thru (squash/Pumpkin-whatever) even if your sideband info is peaking out...
None of the above is going to do you any good if you're a pinched up overdriven mess...
If you sound better on FM - then your not doing it right...
I really appreciate all of the comments and suggestions plus the welcome. I have been in cb's for a number of years and this seems like an answer that changes with each and every set up. I also realize that these amps are not of top quality so they may vary in spec upon build. I did turn the power from the radio down but not alot, the carrier is in the 35 watt range and all seems well. The amp is not getting hot, my crew can hear me and say I'm loud and clear and it seems to do a good distance over varying terrain. So... I guess we will just fly with it, try more fine tuning and if I see smoke it was a very small investment.
Also guys I should mention that I actually parked my van which has a cb down the street, set up my cell phone aiming at it to show meter readings and to get an audio quality recording for myself. I did it with the 50 watt carrier and mic gain at 1 and 3 o'clock plus wide open. The wide open was loud and overmodulated but 3 o'clock may not have been quite as loud but it was clean. 1 o'clock was distant and not much modulation.
Shadetree Mechanic
Delaware Base Station 808
The big strappers on ch6 will set the dead key to maximum power and swing backwards from there. It's hard on the amplifier, but it gets the job done. Haha