I looked up a bunch of TO3P and TO247 power MOSFETS, but need to compile a spreadsheet to show Gate Turn On voltage range (2-4v or 3-5v), Input Gate and Output Drain Capacitances, and Turn-On/Ramp up - Turn Off/Ramp Down timing, obviously you would want a faster timing set than slower.
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ERF9530 MOSFET VERSUS IRF9530 MOSFET.
- Thread starter long night
- Start date
In trying to find a suitable replacement for parts that seem to be re-badged from other sources that won't get disclosed - due to either the company that made this batch is now defunct or too embarrassed to admit they are the sources of these RF parts because of their commitments to contracts might make a buyer in another realm - want to rethink doing business with them. Military, Import or otherwise and such are what I referring to - if didn't meet mil-spec, they, at least, met other criteria, that having a house number wouldn't be feasible except for a niche market (you get the idea)
Either way, the buyer of these rebadged parts are the winners. We only get "generalized" spec details due to the nature of the device might have belonged to a type of communication system that they cannot discuss.
IT's why I use the spec details and have found several IRF520 and 13N10's replacements are possible - doesn't mean exact drop in's but they do the job the OOS (Out-Of-Stock) generic will replace it with.
IT depends on what you are looking for,
IF you're looking to find ERFXXXX and it's either too pricey or otherwise not available - try the "Free market" by using search criteria suggested by @NZ8N - easy enough to type in and you can get datasheets - by the tons, but you have to locate the right information in the details - which can be banshee in itself to find.
Say you want to find a TO-3P or TO-247 package MOSFET N-Channel with Rise time of 30ns and handles 200V.
Just understand that there are limitations.
Firstly - SIZE of the part - makes it harder to find the MUF switch times that you want. Being that the bigger the devices are - they harder it is to switch them on or off. At least, not without some effort meaning that if they are that big, they have large die outlays - which change the way it operates in the RF realm - so bigger doesn't always equate to better with dissipation or rise and fall times - some could be worse - so don't throw your money away - but then don't be so unwilling to experiment with these replacements.
Another? Working Voltage - the higher the number the thicker the insulator has to be between the Gate and the stuff underneath it to work the switch - again makes the part little less favorable for RF work - but in doing so, also gives you a great linear window to work with if your frequencies are pretty low to begin with. But you're stuck if you need a part to work a specific frequency range - so the MUF you'll have to figure out as a "Figure of merit" is
The two above also affect the INPUT Capacitance - the Gate being insulated from anything else - means that will act more like an antenna or a capacitor - so you need to figure this "Figure of merit" out too - to help you in "tuning" of the circuit you put this part in - each different type of maker will have a different number for this value by construction alone. The Bipolar likes small numbers so 560pF to as low as 220pF is appealing because if we find the MOSFET that has a Gate capacitance similar to that - you're already halfway home.
That again goes back to package size - bigger packages means large values - be careful in what you select.
So that means; TO-247 and TO3P are much harder to switch on or off - so the Rise Times and Fall times - you're going to have to sift thru a LOT of useless MOSFETs Datasheets to find your nugget.
Either way, the buyer of these rebadged parts are the winners. We only get "generalized" spec details due to the nature of the device might have belonged to a type of communication system that they cannot discuss.
IT's why I use the spec details and have found several IRF520 and 13N10's replacements are possible - doesn't mean exact drop in's but they do the job the OOS (Out-Of-Stock) generic will replace it with.
IT depends on what you are looking for,
IF you're looking to find ERFXXXX and it's either too pricey or otherwise not available - try the "Free market" by using search criteria suggested by @NZ8N - easy enough to type in and you can get datasheets - by the tons, but you have to locate the right information in the details - which can be banshee in itself to find.
Say you want to find a TO-3P or TO-247 package MOSFET N-Channel with Rise time of 30ns and handles 200V.
Just understand that there are limitations.
Firstly - SIZE of the part - makes it harder to find the MUF switch times that you want. Being that the bigger the devices are - they harder it is to switch them on or off. At least, not without some effort meaning that if they are that big, they have large die outlays - which change the way it operates in the RF realm - so bigger doesn't always equate to better with dissipation or rise and fall times - some could be worse - so don't throw your money away - but then don't be so unwilling to experiment with these replacements.
Another? Working Voltage - the higher the number the thicker the insulator has to be between the Gate and the stuff underneath it to work the switch - again makes the part little less favorable for RF work - but in doing so, also gives you a great linear window to work with if your frequencies are pretty low to begin with. But you're stuck if you need a part to work a specific frequency range - so the MUF you'll have to figure out as a "Figure of merit" is
So, if you're into that sort of thing 27,000,000 or it's reciprocal - is about 37ns - the amount of time it takes to complete 1 cycle of positive to negative back to zero again, in one second.
The two above also affect the INPUT Capacitance - the Gate being insulated from anything else - means that will act more like an antenna or a capacitor - so you need to figure this "Figure of merit" out too - to help you in "tuning" of the circuit you put this part in - each different type of maker will have a different number for this value by construction alone. The Bipolar likes small numbers so 560pF to as low as 220pF is appealing because if we find the MOSFET that has a Gate capacitance similar to that - you're already halfway home.
That again goes back to package size - bigger packages means large values - be careful in what you select.
So that means; TO-247 and TO3P are much harder to switch on or off - so the Rise Times and Fall times - you're going to have to sift thru a LOT of useless MOSFETs Datasheets to find your nugget.
Thank you Handy Andy. Your knowledge is way above my pay grade on these electronic components. I was hoping someone had used a replacement ERF9530 mosfet that would work for me. One that is available and I could purchase without too much trouble. Surely someone has found a replacement mosfet for the ERF9530 and is willing to share that information. Just hoping for the best!
I wish I had more tech knowledge to figure this out. At my level all I can do is replace the ERF9530 with a suitable replacement. Unfortunately I don't understand these mosfets very well, but your information is very welcome. Just hoping someone had gone through this problem before and had found a suitable ERF9530 replacement that is available to come by without too much work to find. Thank you for your information and support.
That is part of the problem...
Once we can locate a working value of a part in cross-reference, we find out it's obsolete or out of stock - leaving us wondering - so we keep searching to find "the one"...
Hi Handy Andy. D you think an IRF530 which is an N channel mosfet would be an acceptable substitute transistor if I replace all with IRF9530s with matching IRF530s? I keep looking, but ERF and IRF9530s just are not for sale at this time.
Thanks in advance for your valued advice sir!
ERF9530 is a sanded off and rebranded TO-3P MOSFET, similar in size to the power regulator on the side wall of a Galaxy or other similar radio.
By doing a deep dive on the web, a German company web page says RM3 is about the same as an MS1307.
https://www.mwf-service.com/shop/mos-rm3-hf-endstufen-mosfet-max-30-mhz.html
Another site says MS1307 is equivalent to an IRF530 or BUZ20.
http://www.datasheetcafe.com/ms1307-datasheet-mosfet/
Going on the International Rectifier web site, their PDF listings for IRF510-IRF540 show
http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irf530.pdf (change the number)
IRF510 - Id - 5.6A - Ciss - 180 pF (used in some experimental QRP ham transceivers)
IRF520 - Id - 9.2A - Ciss - 360 pF
IRF530 - Id - 14A - Ciss - 670 pF
IRF540 - Id - 28A - Ciss - 1700 pF
Id is Drain Current, Ciss is Input (Gate) Capacitance.
So, an IRF530 (TO-220 case) MIGHT work in place of an ERF9530, but in a smaller package (TO-220 vs TO-3P) and at a lower wattage. I think. They are cheap enough.
By doing a deep dive on the web, a German company web page says RM3 is about the same as an MS1307.
https://www.mwf-service.com/shop/mos-rm3-hf-endstufen-mosfet-max-30-mhz.html
Another site says MS1307 is equivalent to an IRF530 or BUZ20.
http://www.datasheetcafe.com/ms1307-datasheet-mosfet/
Going on the International Rectifier web site, their PDF listings for IRF510-IRF540 show
http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irf530.pdf (change the number)
IRF510 - Id - 5.6A - Ciss - 180 pF (used in some experimental QRP ham transceivers)
IRF520 - Id - 9.2A - Ciss - 360 pF
IRF530 - Id - 14A - Ciss - 670 pF
IRF540 - Id - 28A - Ciss - 1700 pF
Id is Drain Current, Ciss is Input (Gate) Capacitance.
So, an IRF530 (TO-220 case) MIGHT work in place of an ERF9530, but in a smaller package (TO-220 vs TO-3P) and at a lower wattage. I think. They are cheap enough.
Hi. So the IRF530 IS PHYSICALLY SMALLER? THE SAME WITH IRF540? BUT BOTH WOULD WORK IN PLACE OF THE ERF9530? THANKS FOR YOUR HELP.
Ah, okay. The original product line from International Rectifier corp decades ago, started with the prefix letters "IRF" followed by three digits. The series of "500" numbered parts came in the TO220 package, a metal tab/plastic body like most CB final transistors. These are all MOSFET transistors, built with a technique that International Rectifier developed in the 70s.
The one with the smallest current rating is the "510". This is the one the hams discovered first. It's meant to be used as an on/off switch, and not for any kind of RF or transmitting use.
But hey, a switch that's fast enough will make a CB-circuit work. The IRF510 will work up to 50 MHz, but you need 24 Volts to see much power from it.
The next-largest IRF520 MOSFET transistor is slower, but will get you more Wattage from a 12-Volt power supply. The 510 is a RF wimp at 12 Volts. But the 520 needs more drive to do what it can do as an amplifier. The IRF520 is the biggest part from this series that is any good at 27 MHz.
The next one up, the 530 is just too slow to use at 27 MHz. The 540 even worse. But they are all sold in the same-size TO-220 package.
The fatter "TO-3P", or "TO-247" are what the ERF9530 looks like. Has a bigger surface area against the heat sink. This increases the wattage rating.
There's a strict rule with this kind of transistor. The higher the wattage rating, the slower it will be. There are a lot of switch-type MOSFET transistors that look like the ERF9530 on the outside. But very few that can amplify RF in the same way. This is an "accidental" use of this family of parts. They are made in stupendous quantities, and that makes them stupidly cheap, especially when you buy 10,000 of them at a time. There are RF-power MOSFETs designed for this job. Some 10-meter radios have used "RD16HHF" transistors as finals. But they're designed for RF use. Makes them more efficient. Also makes them tolerate some SWR without immediate suicide. But they cost several bucks or more each . Not hard to understand the popularity of the 25-cent final and driver when the factory decides which one to use.
The ERF9530 is not originally built with that number on it. The original type markings were sanded off, and the new number printed on it. The new number belongs to the marketing company who changed the number, and who distributes the ERF products. Good luck finding that sanded-off original number.
Gotta figure somebody out there who knows how would have figured it out by now.
Or maybe not.
73
The one with the smallest current rating is the "510". This is the one the hams discovered first. It's meant to be used as an on/off switch, and not for any kind of RF or transmitting use.
But hey, a switch that's fast enough will make a CB-circuit work. The IRF510 will work up to 50 MHz, but you need 24 Volts to see much power from it.
The next-largest IRF520 MOSFET transistor is slower, but will get you more Wattage from a 12-Volt power supply. The 510 is a RF wimp at 12 Volts. But the 520 needs more drive to do what it can do as an amplifier. The IRF520 is the biggest part from this series that is any good at 27 MHz.
The next one up, the 530 is just too slow to use at 27 MHz. The 540 even worse. But they are all sold in the same-size TO-220 package.
The fatter "TO-3P", or "TO-247" are what the ERF9530 looks like. Has a bigger surface area against the heat sink. This increases the wattage rating.
There's a strict rule with this kind of transistor. The higher the wattage rating, the slower it will be. There are a lot of switch-type MOSFET transistors that look like the ERF9530 on the outside. But very few that can amplify RF in the same way. This is an "accidental" use of this family of parts. They are made in stupendous quantities, and that makes them stupidly cheap, especially when you buy 10,000 of them at a time. There are RF-power MOSFETs designed for this job. Some 10-meter radios have used "RD16HHF" transistors as finals. But they're designed for RF use. Makes them more efficient. Also makes them tolerate some SWR without immediate suicide. But they cost several bucks or more each . Not hard to understand the popularity of the 25-cent final and driver when the factory decides which one to use.
The ERF9530 is not originally built with that number on it. The original type markings were sanded off, and the new number printed on it. The new number belongs to the marketing company who changed the number, and who distributes the ERF products. Good luck finding that sanded-off original number.
Gotta figure somebody out there who knows how would have figured it out by now.
Or maybe not.
73
Thanks Nomadradio. Looks like I am back to square one! I will have to wait until more ERF9530 mosfets are available for sale. When that will happen Who knows? And how will I know if they are fake or real? What a pickle I am in!!
73
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