Fraud or ???

[Needle Bender]

I'm disappointed that a radio I recently bought from someone on a forum arrived working fairly well, but with a few small issues and sporting a big sticker on the back proclaiming the radio: Factory Refurbished which was not mentioned before the sale.

Would you:

Just keep it.

Ask for some money back?

Ask for all money back, return & you pay shipping? :glare:

Ask for all money back plus shipping costs to return? :mellow:

File a claim through PayPal?

 

[WA2SI]

Consumer fraud = Refund + s&h

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

Fraud?? Where?? You did not agree to purchase a NEW radio did you? You expected to be purchasing a used radio I imagine since you bought it from an individual and not a dealer I am assuming. The fact that it was FACTORY REFURBISHED should be welcomed and not serviced by Bubba's CB Radio and Steakhouse.

 

[Needle Bender]

Fraud?? Where?? You did not agree to purchase a NEW radio did you? You expected to be purchasing a used radio I imagine since you bought it from an individual and not a dealer I am assuming. The fact that it was FACTORY REFURBISHED should be welcomed and not serviced by Bubba's CB Radio and Steakhouse.

It is possible to purchase a used radio without it being factory refurbished, and it wasn't mentioned prior to sale, which I believe is significant especially since my past experience has shown me that factory refurbished items typically have either inferior components which either don't make spec and require special tuning, or barely make spec but have poor assembly due to a poor assembler or wave soldering issues at the time of production, and is often a ticking time bomb for additional issues, possibly from cold solder points.

Captain Kw, do you actually see it as something not significant enough to warrant disclosure prior to sale?

 

[TonyV225]

I would contact seller and talk to them first I personally would think someone would have mentioned it considering there was a sticker saying this right on it just to keep things that has happened here from happening

For the most part we have some great members here and most are fair and honest so as I said talking to the seller would be the first step.

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

It is possible to purchase a used radio without it being factory refurbished, and it wasn't mentioned prior to sale, which I believe is significant especially since my past experience has shown me that factory refurbished items typically have either inferior components which either don't make spec and require special tuning, or barely make spec but have poor assembly due to a poor assembler or wave soldering issues at the time of production, and is often a ticking time bomb for additional issues, possibly from cold solder points.

Captain Kw, do you actually see it as something not significant enough to warrant disclosure prior to sale?

I do not see it as an issue. Factory refurbished means something that was returned for any reason. Perhaps the display got broken in shipping. Perhaps someone like a dealer took it in trade and shipped it back to the factory (or factory authorized service center) to be overhauled.Maybe it was a known factory fault and was refurbished to cure the issue. When you but something and it fails under warranty and is replaced, the original unit goes back to be refurbished and resold. No, I do not think it is an issue and as I said, I would be happy it was checked over at the factory before I bought it. I have bought factory refurbished gear before and never had an issue with them. If the sticker had said "Serviced by Bubba's CB Shop and Steakhouse" then I would have an issue with it but not a factory unit.

 

[Needle Bender]

Thanks for your replies -

I would contact seller and talk to them first I personally would think someone would have mentioned it considering there was a sticker saying this right on it just to keep things that has happened here from happening

For the most part we have some great members here and most are fair and honest so as I said talking to the seller would be the first step.

Yes, and that's why I haven't mentioned who or where, I'm not interested in black-balling anyone, just rectifying the issue in a way most advantageous to both parties, asking opinions here to help shed light on my options.

I do not see it as an issue. Factory refurbished means something that was returned for any reason. Perhaps the display got broken in shipping. Perhaps someone like a dealer took it in trade and shipped it back to the factory (or factory authorized service center) to be overhauled.Maybe it was a known factory fault and was refurbished to cure the issue. When you but something and it fails under warranty and is replaced, the original unit goes back to be refurbished and resold. No, I do not think it is an issue and as I said, I would be happy it was checked over at the factory before I bought it. I have bought factory refurbished gear before and never had an issue with them. If the sticker had said "Serviced by Bubba's CB Shop and Steakhouse" then I would have an issue with it but not a factory unit.

-Or it could be for the reasons I mentioned which make it not quite so friendly a deal as your post implies.

The point is, why withhold the information prior to sale? Why hide it?

Shouldn't it be in the interest of keeping the buyer happy to disclose everything which is not a factory stock item or condition prior to sale and let the buyer decide what "Factory Refurbished" means to them?

 

[9C1Driver]

Consumer fraud = Refund + s&h

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

Sounds like he bought a used radio from a forum member, not a radio advertised as new from a store. I don't see any fraud there and besides, most forum sales are as is no refunds.

That said if the price was good and it's a nice clean radio why worry about it. I would rather have a refurb radio tuned and aligned by say DTB radio then a "new" radio that's been super hackpacked.

Bottom line, nothing wrong with a refurb if a good tech tuned it. That said if you paid a premium price for a mint radio then you might be able to talk to the seller about a portion of the purchase price refunded.

 

[Robb]

Just because a radio is refurbed doesn't mean it is destined to fail. It failed at first and then the factory/repairman set it right. Passed inspection and it moved on. If a refurbed radio is sold by a shop and sold as new; then that is misrepresenting and that can be considered fraud. A refurbed radio isn't automatically a fraud; just how it is presented is what counts.

Is it fraud? You bought a used working radio and you knew that. Does it work OK? Yes? I would be satisfied with that and let it go. Build a bridge - and get over it.

 

[Needle Bender]

Thank you for replying.

Sounds like he bought a used radio from a forum member, not a radio advertised as new from a store. I don't see any fraud there and besides, most forum sales are as is no refunds.

That said if the price was good and it's a nice clean radio why worry about it. I would rather have a refurb radio tuned and aligned by say DTB radio then a "new" radio that's been super hackpacked.

Bottom line, nothing wrong with a refurb if a good tech tuned it.

But how am I to know who tuned it or why it was returned for refurbishing? Perhaps it is because the wave soldering machine lost power for a minute or two and several rigs got through with several cold solder joints as I have seen on other electronic items, and this unit has only been partially repaired, leaving more for the future, perhaps the entire board. Perhaps there is more to go wrong due to the type of issue and this refurbishing is only the tip of the iceberg? How am I to know and be so confident as you sound?

Wouldn't you want to know before you spent your hard-earned cashola down for something you thought was simply a good working used rig which has never had major issues requiring it to be returned to the factory?

Again, it seems only fair that something of this nature should ALWAYS be disclosed by the seller prior to sale and let the buyer decide.

Am I wrong? If so, why?

 

[Mudfoot]

As long as it is in decent shape, works, makes you happy and was at a good price, I wouldn't care "to much".

If you bought it from me I would have told you. Refurbed doesn't always mean it had a prior defect. It could have been returned for buyers remorse or wrong item and was returned, many other reasons. The factory or reseller just checks it over and repacks it for sale under the refurb label.

I think most self respecting forum members would have mentioned that it had a refurb label. Maybe the seller is a moron and doesn't know what refurbed means, who knows?

 

[Needle Bender]

Just because a radio is refurbed doesn't mean it is destined to fail. It failed at first and then the factory/repairman set it right. Passed inspection and it moved on. If a refurbed radio is sold by a shop and sold as new; then that is misrepresenting and that can be considered fraud. A refurbed radio isn't automatically a fraud; just how it is presented is what counts.

Is it fraud? You bought a used working radio and you knew that. Does it work OK? Yes? I would be satisfied with that and let it go. Build a bridge - and get over it.

Well, no it doesn't work "OK". It 'works' and alignment was mentioned by me as a non-issue, but that was supposing it was a rig consistent with the normal rigs to come off the line. This one shows oddities in terms of the controls not responding to touch like every other rig of it's type, controls which do not move in normal increments but have a type of lag causing minor adjustments to volume & clarifier to be hard to do, if not impossible.
They jump from nothing to too much in the slightest touch or do nothing for several degrees of turning then go far too much all at once, plus the SSB freq wanders around, up & down unlike any drifting I have experienced.

Drifting down or up consistently is to be expected while warming or cooling, but going all over both ways in the course of a QSO isn't, which tells me it has further issues with probable necessary replacement of componentry, or solder issues, in the VCO and/or PLL, which was not expected and not part of a simple alignment.

Again, if it is always a best-case scenario when refurbished, then why not disclose it as a positive, or at least disclose it period?

 

[Mudfoot]

Fraud?? Where?? You did not agree to purchase a NEW radio did you? You expected to be purchasing a used radio I imagine since you bought it from an individual and not a dealer I am assuming. The fact that it was FACTORY REFURBISHED should be welcomed and not serviced by Bubba's CB Radio and Steakhouse.

Bubba still could have been inside after the refurb label was placed. It's usually just a sticker on the back, not a tamper seal.

 

[Needle Bender]

As long as it is in decent shape, works, makes you happy and was at a good price, I wouldn't care "to much".

If you bought it from me I would have told you. Refurbed doesn't always mean it had a prior defect. It could have been returned for buyers remorse or wrong item and was returned, many other reasons. The factory or reseller just checks it over and repacks it for sale under the refurb label.

I think most self respecting forum members would have mentioned that it had a refurb label. Maybe the seller is a moron and doesn't know what refurbed means, who knows?

Again, yes, if there is a way to know that it was one of those even more highly perfected rigs due to having been refurbished and in essence 'tuned twice' then fine, but how am I to know if it is a best or worst-case refurb scenario, and why not disclose it from the beginning unless it's perhaps something he didn't want to be known until after-the-fact?

As you say, I know I also would have mentioned it from the start.

*Yes, a sticker on the back, not easy to miss.

 

[Robb]

Well, no it doesn't work "OK". It 'works' and alignment was mentioned by me as a non-issue, but that was supposing it was a rig consistent with the normal rigs to come off the line. This one shows oddities in terms of the controls not responding to touch like every other rig of it's type, controls which do not move in normal increments but have a type of lag causing minor adjustments to volume & clarifier to be hard to do, if not impossible.
They jump from nothing to too much in the slightest touch or do nothing for several degrees of turning then go far too much all at once, plus the SSB freq wanders around, up & down unlike any drifting I have experienced.

Drifting down or up consistently is to be expected but going all over both ways isn't, which tells me it has further issues with probable necessary replacement of componentry, or solder issues, in the VCO and/or PLL, which was not expected and not part of a simple alignment.

Again, if it is always a best-case scenario when refurbished, then why not disclose it as a positive, or at least disclose it period?

This begs a question: do you ask the owner of the radio if the radio has ever been repaired? Did you ask that question before you decided to buy it? If you forgot to ask; then whose problem is this? If he said: "everything works perfect; nothing wrong with this radio". Then, you have recourse with the buyer through paypal or your credit card company after any negotiation to resolve any issue with the seller has ended - IIRC.