gainmaster vs i10k a quick test with locals

[gamegetter]

hmmm

Let me rock the boat a little here. Sirio claims;

"This arrangement allowed us to increase the maximum gain of 0.6dB in comparison to a conventional 5/8λ antenna with equal length; also it allowed us to have a radiation pattern similar to a dipole which has its maximum gain on the horizon (See 3D radiation pattern and its section in Fig.5).

Gain-Master™ has the highest available gain for 5/8λ antenna and due to its angle of radiation perfectly horizontal, can improve performance, better than competing antennas, at least 1-2dB, corresponding to 26%-58% more gain, as shown by direct pattern comparison showed in Fig.6 and far-field tests with spectrum analyzer Fig.7."

And every time real world tests show other wise, we come up with a whole lot of reasons why a conventional 5/8 wave is better than the gm.

Could it be perhaps because some folks have spent alot of money buying the gm and won't admit it. Well I don't know just putting that out there. Perhaps more real world tests will be done and more data can be analyzed.

 

[jazzsinger]

Could it be perhaps because some folks have spent alot of money buying the gm and won't admit it.

i think that explains a hell of a lot more than the efficiency of the gm, probably covers all antennas/radios and accessories too. very few people will admit they have just wasted money replacing something that worked well with something that is either equal or worse than the previous item, just human nature i guess. it certainly would explain many of the multitude of bullshit posts to be found on radio forums worldwide.

 

[wavrider]

Verticals, verticals, verticals?????

So many variables involved, height of installation, gain of major lobe at what angle of degree??

Coupling to other antennas or structures in the vicinity.

Looking at the GM from a conventional view? I.E. Physics,

Someone please explain what rule of physics allows the GM to have such claimed increase in transmitted signal strength as much as two S units 12db??

OK lets say the meter on the receiver is only calibrated (if calibrated at all)
at 3db per S unit that is still 6db gain over a 5/8 or an A99, or whatever the heck it is being compared to.

The manufacture does not even claim this much gain over a 5/8wl so how in the heck is anyone seeing that much difference?

I am not saying that the antenna did not do as stated in previous posts.

I am just asking someone, anyone to explain how the laws of physics applies to this vertical antenna to allow it to have a 6DB gain over another antenna that the law of physics states will perform better than the GM. I.E a 5/8wl


When it can be proven with a formula mathematically then it will be a fact.
Until the laws of physics have changed or have been reinvented all claims and comparisons are just that, nothing but opinions.

Marconi's comparisons are about as good as it gets, real world, different ops and pretty much flat land except for man made structures. I do not recall any of Marconi's tests showing the GM 12db above any other antenna.

 

[BOOTY MONSTER]

"Could it be perhaps because some folks have spent alot of money buying the gm and won't admit it."

it wouldn't be the first product to have that happen to . i think its just different installation conditions having different effects on the different antennas . i dont think anyone here is lying about their results .

 

[BOOTY MONSTER]

wavrider , i can really appreciate your post . it reminds me of how i felt when yota did a review of the merlin claiming the 1/4 wgp with a coil and a top-hat produced up to 15 s-units more signal than full length 5/8ths with proper ground elements . i was very surprised myself when i went from a 1/4 wgp to a 5/8gp . folks reported up to 4 s-units more signal from me . i agree radio meters are poor measuring devices , but it's all most of us have to get some idea of whats happening .
lobes are interesting

 

[MrSuburban]

Let's not forget the I10k was also touted as a mythical legend when it came out althought it was basically identical to the Penetrator with a super duper matching network.

HYPE!

 

[wavrider]

wavrider , i can really appreciate your post . it reminds me of how i felt when yota did a review of the merlin claiming the 1/4 wgp with a coil and a top-hat produced up to 15 s-units more signal than full length 5/8ths with proper ground elements . i was very surprised myself when i went from a 1/4 wgp to a 5/8gp . folks reported up to 4 s-units more signal from me . i agree radio meters are poor measuring devices , but it's all most of us have to get some idea of whats happening .
lobes are interesting

Booty I agree. I am not insinuating that what the tests revealed or the receive end saw on their meters is not a reality. In fact I believe it is honest in the signal reports of the stations involved in the testing.

Taken into consideration, height of install, transmission line used to feed the rf to the antenna, surrounding structures etc etc that the GM may in fact put that many S units on a receive meter better than a different antenna that it is compared to.

The point I am trying to bring out is that it is not the antenna making that much difference. It is the installation, height, surrounding structures, type of ground and all the other universal variables that are not controllable in comparison testing.

The GM I am positive will seem like the better antenna at some locations than other antennas, but not always.

 

[Kamikaze]

Could it be perhaps because some folks have spent alot of money buying the gm and won't admit it. Well I don't know just putting that out there. Perhaps more real world tests will be done and more data can be analyzed.

BINGO.

Same goes for magic 43 foot ham verticals and SteepIR antennas.

 

[Marconi]

Hey wavrider, thanks for your support of my results here, but where has Sirio claimed 6 or 12 db gain over other antennas?

I don't have a clue what the dbs/sunit is on my radios and without testing, I don't think anybody else has a clue either. It should be evident to us all that the same goes for others that have reported even more difference than my results indicate, and some have even showed us in videos.

Like you, I tend to believe what other's tell us they see on their radios, but I also consider how variable the systems and human observations can be, and this says nothing about how the AGC circuit, or whatever controls the meter circuit on our radios that is affected by the RX signals we receive.

This is not science we do here, and for us to always inject science only tends to limit discussion. I think we can still glean some useful information form our personal comments regarding human experiences...right along while we consider the possible faults we assume are involved.

 

[wavrider]

Let's make a fun non-scientific assumption.

If the $60 A99 is the entry level base and you want to upgrade -

1 S unit increase = $40 (Imax)

2 S unit increase = $119.95 (Gain Master)

3 S unit increase = $279 (I10K)


We now can quantify dollars to S units for vertical 11 meter antennas.

Marconi, I never said SIRIO claimed 12db gain, re-read post, The above quote claimed the 12db gain, as did the review in another thread written by same member.

Discussions are great, information can be purveyed.

You are welcome on support of your testing, even if I have done nothing to support it. I enjoy reading your findings, and posts and they compare to what I have tried, experimented with etc. etc. etc. Real world results is what it is all about.

 

[Meglotron]

I did alot of reading about 5/8 before I bought my gainmaster. A friend lost his radio shack 64 metal 5/8 in a storm awhile back when I lost my maco and replaced it with a gainmaster. He told me it beat it hands down. I've heard him trash fiberglass antennas for years and couldn't believe my ears when he told me that. It was the talk of the town, charlie went fiberglass. nobody could believe it. He could never hear mike very well, he was always asking me or dan to relay. now he hears him without a problem.He sold me on it. I think the physics of it are in the way it matches the middle to the big arc. look at there website and read the technical link. My paperwork says to instal it 18 feet above other objects. That must be for good reason like messing with the way it transmits or swrs.

 

[Shockwave]

No real surprises here with this test. Antennas that produce a low angle radiation pattern have no real advantage with local signals. In fact as we see they can reduce local signals. When an antenna has a compressed beamwidth, the advantage is to project the signal further out on the horizon. This does come at the expense of some energy that would normally be radiated locally. Local signals respond to wider angles in the radiation pattern then distant signals do.

In most cases we should be testing antennas from the perspective of range rather then signal. Is it more important to give someone an extra S-unit that already hears you with S-7, or is it more important to communicate with distant stations that may have been impossible to reach with another antenna? I'm not saying to ignore the S-meter, I'm suggesting that we only pay attention to its reading when they are towards the bottom end of the scale.

Reducing the RF gain to knock a signal down does make it easier to spot differences in the signal strength. It does not simulate the affect of moving the test station further away. This is because more distance places more dependence on the antennas ability to compress the pattern into as narrow a beam as possible, while still having it aimed at the horizon.

 

[gamegetter]

Marconi, I never said SIRIO claimed 12db gain, re-read post, The above quote claimed the 12db gain, as did the review in another thread written by same member.

Discussions are great, information can be purveyed.

You are welcome on support of your testing, even if I have done nothing to support it. I enjoy reading your findings, and posts and they compare to what I have tried, experimented with etc. etc. etc. Real world results is what it is all about.

Sirio is only claiming a ".6 dB gain over a conventional 5/8 wave with equal length"...and a "1-2 dB improvement over competing antennas". Hope this helps clear this up.

 

[HomerBB]

No real surprises here with this test. Antennas that produce a low angle radiation pattern have no real advantage with local signals. In fact as we see they can reduce local signals. When an antenna has a compressed beamwidth, the advantage is to project the signal further out on the horizon. This does come at the expense of some energy that would normally be radiated locally. Local signals respond to wider angles in the radiation pattern then distant signals do.

In most cases we should be testing antennas from the perspective of range rather then signal. Is it more important to give someone an extra S-unit that already hears you with S-7, or is it more important to communicate with distant stations that may have been impossible to reach with another antenna? I'm not saying to ignore the S-meter, I'm suggesting that we only pay attention to its reading when they are towards the bottom end of the scale.

Reducing the RF gain to knock a signal down does make it easier to spot differences in the signal strength. It does not simulate the affect of moving the test station further away. This is because more distance places more dependence on the antennas ability to compress the pattern into as narrow a beam as possible, while still having it aimed at the horizon.

Shockwave,
While most hammer the iron while it's hot, I think you have just made the iron hot by hammering it.

I notice just what you are saying. I hear more distantly better so far on the Qv4k, while in close, say 15 to 20 miles, either shows no improvement, of perhaps suffers a reduction in my receive. That is no problem as it is a simple thing to have an alternate antenna on a switch for more local work if I care to. Or simply not let the lower receive matter just so I work them satisfactorily.

So I tend to agree with your post.

 

[gamegetter]

I did not notice where bob85 mentions the directions or distances to his locals, maybe I missed this.

If the gm is a "dx" antenna, then I just keep working the dipole.

If you have a proper working 5/8 with ground radials, then a .6 db increase over that would only be a "marginal" performance increase and I would be better off up grading coax cable.

Just a different perspective here.