Galaxy radio drift

[Robb]

So more or less the Galaxy (and similar) radios have to evaluated on a case by case basis, due to the "quality" of the original parts.

BTW, didn't see that someone had posted the same video earlier in the thread. Would have let this sleeping dog lie if I had.

I appreciated your video; just don't know how it will play out.
Hope it does.
But yeah, I am skeptical . . .

Galaxy did/does warranty their radios. But I do think some of the part quality is less than standard. Like the xtals for one. I think that their radios benefit from a complete realignment; been my experience. Not really down on them, since I still own about a half dozen of their radios.

 

[Handy Andy]

Thank you gentlemen and be sure to pass along my thanks to Mark for providing the chart.



The only thing I did not see was how long it took to get from "startup" to stability.

There are other questions too but mostly are dealing with COMPENSATION of the external Potentiometer...

Why that? Because of Marks' comment about - "Heading North"...

And that is why I felt - still feel, compelled to pursue a venue or two about dealing with the environment OUTSIDE the box - we can cook a pizza in an oven because we can put in heat (add thermal effects) but we are not able to produce the opposite to accommodate other variables including the resistive elements stuck out in the real world environment.

Most radios - due to the person operating it, also needs to be in an environment to survive. So both operator and the radio, being placed in that same environment are then; at operators discretion, heated or cooled to a set temperature to make it the most comfortable for the operator and operation of the radio - both can and oftentimes without a hitch, stabilize and on the persons side of the benefit - Homeostasis is achieved.

In light of the human aspect - we are constantly attempting - achieving - Hemostasis at any given time in our lives. It is how life works - to live in it's environment it has to be able to adapt itself to it - if it cannot - it's life cannot continue and it dies.

So this means we have to exert energy to offset the environments affects on us, whether humidity, temperature or need to eat (amongst other aspects) - to keep homeostasis.

You can't train a radio to do that , so we offset for it - by adjusting the radio via some external means until the environment we (radio and person) are stabilized.

I do understand that all of you have a life to live and dealing with a quirk or erratic operation of a particular type of radio - most would simply say "get rid of it and use something that works" and they usually follow thru. (e.g. - They'd be correct.)

To me the topic was, and still is, about a quality issue and there are far more variables in the realm of "thermal" than most realize - Homeostasis is an autonomic function we have built into ourselves so we are now just taking this to another level - not unlike "How To Train Your Dragon", only without the personality.

So if I need to apologize to anyone about my approach on, or defense of, principles that seems moot - to the many that expressed their opinions, I do offer the apology - but only to re-establish lines of communication - not to re-engage in hurtful commentary in spite of myself or others. I am learning right along with the rest of you participating this thread - and your input, no matter which way you wish to express it, it is appreciated.

I only wish Larry the best in his endeavor and I offer my thanks in letting me participate - any my apologies to all if I Hi-Jacked this thread...If only to show encouragement for efforts to address a problem that has many levels or layers that interact within each other and affects us all.

:+> Andy <+:

 

[Larry A McClanahan]

My sentiments exactly Andy. My Hope was and still is that the additional info will come out that will help us solve these problems. I like the fact that the gentleman swapped out of part to get it stable. I also noticed that the top and the bottom where off the radio. Now that the party has been changed out and the radio is stable, I would like to see if that part causes the frequency to track properly when thermal conditions change. Perhaps plugging in the radio for 24 hours and then transmitting on and off for a half hour to see if that pent-up and build up heat causes that device to keep the frequency tracking properly.

 

[Handy Andy]

Good to see you still sticking in there.

Yes, after the vid I went back to my own notes on various "methods" I've used.

Although people do claim the "warm up" is needed to handle the drift - would agree to most of that statement as actual fact - if only it was the all encompassing truth though...

There are leakage issues, multiple asynchronous issues of multi placed point Xtals used instead of one set reference to provide synchronous operation, poor shielding, lack of quality - poor soldering (especially now after Pb issues removed and were stuck with silver-Ag) even silver is not a cure all. Many tinned works are using Pb before that ban went into effect - so there is the contamination and of course - the creeping crud caused by Flux that embedded itself with the carbon "goo" floating about the bin in the Soldering machine - that winds up on our desks due to a "thermal" issue, not quite temperature, but more of an environment issue.

And did I forget to mention ... Mods? RWOB? Upgrades? Broadbanding? Audio Tweaks...

I could go on...

But the vid demonstrates a point - SMD devices are used in many situations to get around another issue of what was mentioned earlier - the cross-contamination of the older Pb to Ag and the Flux in-between the layers. SMD's already have their construction made up to handle the Ag - based soldering better.

Two different melting points, and malleability issues surrounding the alloys used, generates a long term situation of prone failures.

So - too bad that many got the notion that LEAD was bad for you - is that so?

Well even tin-foil hats and Aluminum have been causing brain damage before long before the invention of Saran Wrap...and even that has been proven by people unable to process simple instructions - that it is a choking hazard - but it's still on the store shelves and sold as a food wrap - so go figure...

So, to you - I give you my thanks for letting me add a few extra cars to the train before it got derailed - rerouted - stalled - sided waiting for traffic to pass, all while many are still wafting at the station for it to arrive...

Sign me...
Frustrated In Fargo.

 

[9C1Driver]

This is a neat thread for the radio techs here to mess around with and technical talk back and fourth about. The reality of it though is this. If a simple mod (1 hour or less) could be done by a tech and sold to walk in customers or mail in sales I think a shop would have figured it out in the last 28 years. In the end a Galaxy Export radio has always been and still is a sailboat on SSB.

 

[Handy Andy]

There was a good phrase used in Star Trek The Search For Spock - where the Enterprise crew "escapes" the Spacedock and outruns the Excelsior - because of a specific reassignment of a crewmember allowed for a change to something that was supposed to make the Excelsior the fastest ship in the fleet.

"The more the add to the work, the more they stop up the plumbing..." (Paraphrased)

The problem with Galaxy is numerous, and it means just that -

Multiple Xtal references...
Multiple layers of conversion,
Multiple layers of connections,

And...

Places provided for to insert Noise Toys, beeps, Echo - even a frequency counter...

Of course it's gonna' sail ... but when you too busy playing with all the buttons versus concentrating on the conversation or what your supposed to be doing (like driving) - you tend to forget and overlook the drifting as a moot point when you are enjoying the thrill of ownership of a Cinco-Masted (5-mode) Schooner with multiple knobs of echo, delay, along with reverb and beeps with lights, sirens and action - not unlike the action figures and toys we wished to see underneath the Christmas Tree when we were A LOT younger...all while driving 75 down a turnpike at rush hour in Dallas

It's why some of the simpler radios do better and outpace the Galaxy in stability - but they're ability to accessorize pales when it comes to the Accessories the "Cadillac" (A.K.A. - Galaxy) ensues as add-ons for $$$ revenue for the shop...

If you can fit it in there - they will come...

 

[Martian]

This turned into complete insanity long ago which is why you guys are the only ones here.

One other person pointed that out and either the mods deleted his post or he did but it was here yesterday.
And the synopsis of that response was.... this is probable insanity, It's not worth it, And your doing it wrong.

+1 to that.

Just like the temperature variation in the control or other factors that fall into the do not care / should not care / cannot control category.

What about planetary alignments, gravity, solar flux, barometric pressure, humidity, and other atmospheric conditions that will affect it?

Jesus Christ guys. It's a CB radio. A poorly designed one at that. It can be improved REALLY EASILY and without worrying about the Chi of the operator.
If you want it to be as stable as possible then use PLLs that are referenced to a Rubidium backed oscillator that's GPS locked itself.

And...

The only thing I did not see was how long it took to get from "startup" to stability.

It's clearly said "this is when it was cold" at 1:10
I see the chart, the times on that chart, and his watch!
Even if it was not said the chart clearly shows a cold startup in the very same image you took of the video.

You see the warm-up period took between 20 and 30 minutes which is typical and without covers will be heavily influenced. What the lack of covers illustrates is that it's pretty stable even with air currents causing temperature variation.

 

[ghce]

This turned into complete insanity long ago which is why you guys are the only ones here.

One other person pointed that out and either the mods deleted his post or he did but it was here yesterday.
And the synopsis of that response was.... this is probable insanity, It's not worth it, And your doing it wrong.

+1 to that.

Yep, self deleted.

To give really constructive criticism I would need to analyse the circuit more, both from a theory and also practical (the parts they used) aspect.

 

[Handy Andy]

This turned into complete insanity long ago which is why you guys are the only ones here.

And so...

It's clearly said "this is when it was cold" at 1:10
I see the chart, the times on that chart, and his watch!
Even if it was not said the chart clearly shows a cold startup in the very same image you took of the video.

Ok, the chart wasn't clear on the timing - only a line on a graph. I didn't think it was a big deal to complain about it to him - just mention it in passing. But I see you went back and threaded the needle (30 minutes? WOW right along with the reference of Up North...) - good job and thank you.

In a way, you helped prove a point...

Some people are quite comfortable with a radio that drifts - I have no qualms with them. My only issue is with drift itself and the ability to overcome the obstacle.

But you also raise another point - about insanity.

If you own a radio that took 30 minutes before you could even try to have roundtable conversation wit someone - well I just don't have that kind of time...you can own that radio - I'll go find and use something else - ok? In fact, I'd like to help provide a method or two for later implementation on new radio chassis that evolve from this - but if you feel that this is impossible - you have yet to get to know me.

But if you wish to bash the idea (your +1 reference) - that is your business - and you will be respected as such. So post according to how you want to be responded to. I'm less inclined to get pushed back two steps for every step I make (SIC) - you may find yourself (and even myself) not getting any further responses from anyone.

Not Un-Like "The Temperature the Cars' Heater Produces is Inversely Proportional to the Distance Still Left To Travel To get to the Driveway on Your Trip Home From Work." - to keep this thread from going astray as from what one said "Insanity".

Remember this...

Radios' have even "Failed" to power up on cold days, damp days even hot car windows rolled up days - not just thermal - its' simply unable to start...you can blame thermal because once you able to retrieve and remove the frozen/boiled/baked remains of the occupants that at one time needed help but were unable to use the said equipment to obtain it...and find out it works "now" when it warmed up? Does that help bring some comfort to the former occupants?

So why use it?

Why even own it?

Can we fix it?

That's where we stand - and you're more than welcome to participate - as you are now - but you may find yourself less likely to feel as though you really are helping by the way the thread may go in a direction you may not like it to go. We can't help you there.

 

[hpssb]

Just got mine back from the doctors yesterday, they had it for a few months but it is now drift free, used it from cold and its bang on 12 o clock. Got pretty warm under the heater outlet in the car driving from Sydney to Coffs but everyone we spoke to on the way said perfectly on frequency. Only downer the clarifier coarse is less than what it used to be but never had to touch it all the way from Syd to coffs a 5 hour trip. Got up the next morning, radio cold from sitting in the car overnight but still bang on frequency.

The technical details of how they did it are on transmission1, most of it way over my head but its all there.

http://www.transmission1.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=55913

They had my ok to use pics of my radio in that post.

Loz!

 

[Shadetree Mechanic]

Just got mine back from the doctors yesterday, they had it for a few months but it is now drift free, used it from cold and its bang on 12 o clock. Got pretty warm under the heater outlet in the car driving from Sydney to Coffs but everyone we spoke to on the way said perfectly on frequency. Only downer the clarifier coarse is less than what it used to be but never had to touch it all the way from Syd to coffs a 5 hour trip. Got up the next morning, radio cold from sitting in the car overnight but still bang on frequency.

The technical details of how they did it are on transmission1, most of it way over my head but its all there.

http://www.transmission1.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=55913

They had my ok to use pics of my radio in that post.

Loz!

That is very nice work, would you be able to give us the contact information for this shop? Do they have a website? Thanks.

 

[Martian]

It's an Aussie shop as I understand.

That looks suspiciously like a project someone open sourced 2 or 3 years ago.

Edit: it's not. The open sourced one is more elaborate and uses the big brother of the 5351.

 

[Handy Andy]

Another article of theirs is on CB Tricks remaking a VFO.

So yes they've been busy - good article though.

 

[sonoma]

that link is to a very good tech in Sydney. she is one of the best techs around. she can do things to a radio no one else can. there shop is called LB Comms.

Andy that is Sue.

 

[Handy Andy]

I know, recognized her lbcomms handle and her work - excellent.

The "history" in the first post of the page is interesting - so the shop has been busy.

With Adafruit as well as Arduino kits - and the hardships in Xtal synthesis. Man we're getting killed by overseas just running over our works...

In light of everything I see several methods for fixing a problem that is small for some but humongous and insurmountable for others. I know what I need to do and I do defend the process of the questionable parts - which were sorted out and highlited for other in the thread - and for our benefit too.

Sue approached it from a larger more researched point of view while the author of this thread has done a wonderful job of discovery, repair, replacement and efforts to solve this problem on their side.

Considering the dichotomy of both, each approach I've seen so far is admirable and unique as the person whom developed their process to repair. They both deserve a lot of credit for their efforts as well as patience with the radio, to obtain the results - as well as the attitudes and emotions of those whom feel this is all folly.

No one wants to see how I'd do it, because it's more of the environment it's in versus chasing after - like a band of paparrattzi - running, nailing down the components and Phat-shaming them into submission. I already know what I'm up against so it may never see the light of day. Its' simply two components and where they are placed in the circuit. IT's a custom build for the customer - it's an end product and after seeing Sues' extreme efforts to tame such a beast - like I said - It'll never see the light of day - maybe in a radio I build someday - but not now, not here.