I have a Patriot 12' two piece fiberglass base antenna. Do these add on ground plane kits really do anything. For my antenna it costs just under $50.00. I know getting a better antenna would probably be a better investment but I live in a rented house for over 6 years now and have some mounting issues "several" but would be able to install the ground plane radials if I am correct at 6' at a downward angle.
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Ground plane kits?
- Thread starter hammer0630
- Start date
Also wanted to state that I am in a hole and would like to get my transmit energy more focused upward to get over the immediate hills surrounding my propertyif I am correct my output right now is relayed sideways or level with ground "horizontal" Please let me know if I am correct and on the right track Thanks!
Think of a doughnut around the antenna. This is the radiation pattern of a vertical antenna. When you lengthen the antenna think of that doughnut getting flatter, thus less upward and downward signal as more of the given energy is being used to push the pattern out. If the ground plane kit does anything it is likely to have a similar effect as lengthening the antenna.
The best solution if you are in a hole is height. Unfortunately not everyone is able to use this solution.
Even if you push more of the signal up, that won't help with the more distant stations unless something is happening to curve that signal over the obstacle of the landscape (or whatever happens to be causing it) back out to the horizon. Skip will do this but that will not help when trying to contact local stations.
The DB
The best solution if you are in a hole is height. Unfortunately not everyone is able to use this solution.
Even if you push more of the signal up, that won't help with the more distant stations unless something is happening to curve that signal over the obstacle of the landscape (or whatever happens to be causing it) back out to the horizon. Skip will do this but that will not help when trying to contact local stations.
The DB
err,........... ya got a couple things turned around.
lengthening an antenna will lower the resonant frequency.
for verticle antennas, the more a signal goes towards straight "up", the higher the radiation angle and the better the antenna is for distance
B
BOOTY MONSTER
Guest
i think DB may be referring to sloped ground elements making the capture area of a omni longer .
"the more a signal goes towards straight "up", the higher the radiation angle and the better the antenna is for distance"
did you accidently get that backwards ?
"the more a signal goes towards straight "up", the higher the radiation angle and the better the antenna is for distance"
did you accidently get that backwards ?
IF you want to get over "them there hills" a 1/4 wl vertical is the best you can get for a high angle of radiation.
Think of a steel whip on a mobile install. Those old whips are hard to beat. as far as DX? I have made contacts into S. Africa from my mobile. Mother Nature had a lot to do with that.
There is a bunch of nonsense on the forums and the net about angle of radiation and take off angle. It makes for a good discussion in theory but in real world it boils down to " If you can hear em you can work em."
The only place I ever see this discussion come up is on CB antennas. Most amateurs will use a 1/4 WL vert for whatever the band is because it is the easiest to build and it works.
It is true a 1/2 wl has a lower angel of radiation than a 1/4 wl. a 5/8 has a lower angle of radiation than a 1/2 wl. a .64 w/l has the lowest angle of radiation than any of them.
Marconi did some extensive comparisons of the different type of antennas. Interesting reading.
Think of a steel whip on a mobile install. Those old whips are hard to beat. as far as DX? I have made contacts into S. Africa from my mobile. Mother Nature had a lot to do with that.
There is a bunch of nonsense on the forums and the net about angle of radiation and take off angle. It makes for a good discussion in theory but in real world it boils down to " If you can hear em you can work em."
The only place I ever see this discussion come up is on CB antennas. Most amateurs will use a 1/4 WL vert for whatever the band is because it is the easiest to build and it works.
It is true a 1/2 wl has a lower angel of radiation than a 1/4 wl. a 5/8 has a lower angle of radiation than a 1/2 wl. a .64 w/l has the lowest angle of radiation than any of them.
Marconi did some extensive comparisons of the different type of antennas. Interesting reading.
Any antenna can be tuned to, even a slinky stretched out over a broomstick handle, or the infamous wet noodle.
A longer antenna can still be tuned, however I was not saying to lengthen the antenna. I was referring to the changes in the antennas radiation pattern by lengthening it. Adding a properly designed ground plane kit would have a similar change in this pattern to lengthening the antenna somewhat, directing more energy out towards the horizon.
for verticle antennas, the more a signal goes towards straight "up", the higher the radiation angle and the better the antenna is for distance
As you said it to me I must throw it right back at you...
So, were you talking about a vertical cb antenna or an NVIS antenna? It sounds like you are referring to an NVIS antenna to me. On a vertical CB antenna intended for local contacts you want a low radiation angle to keep the signal down on the horizon.
Now if your talking distance contacts such as DX, I don't think that is what the OP is after.
The DB
Being in a hole I can't really argue against the 1/4 wave whip. His current antenna is only about 3' longer so I doubt he would notice a difference switching to a 1/4 wave whip. Something that may actually hinder him in this regard is he likely can't put a proper ground plane up for such an antenna.
I love my 108 on top of my SUV. For a mobile antenna it simply can't be beet. I don't think his intention here is DX as being in a hole for DX really doesn't matter as much as for local contacts.
I tend to agree with this statement. I personally think they get much to much attention.
Interesting, most amateurs around here will run a 5/8 even in mobile installs for 2 meter. The only place a 1/4 is commonly used around here are the lower frequency bands, such as 80 and 160 meters, where even 1/4 antennas are very long. Aside from those, as far as base use I know of far more dipoles, and of course the 5/8 wave. My personal favorite, although not as common as the dipole is the extended double zepp. Yes, I see more of these then 1/4 wave. I am an amateur myself and have friends in the local community. I always like seeing what new antenna just went up over at xx's shack, and love helping set them up as well.
On CB frequencies the 1/4 wave is commonly used in mobile applications simply because it is the longest feasible antenna to be used in a mobile application and provides gain over all other mobile antennas. If you set up a base longer antennas are preferred, and at least for local contacts, is superior.
Also, I have seen some very lengthy documents written by amateurs for other amateurs on this very subject. It is definitely not simply a CB thing.
No argument hear.
Sounds familiar, pretty sure I read all about it, or perhaps I watched it in one of his videos...
The DB
I am compared to outside this mountain range still fairly well in altitude nearly 2000 feet so I get the skip but local communications are rough but in only a few routes. Using 300 watts to my Mobile's from my house .7 tenths of a mile with no signal to a flakey 1 pound. Now base stations out side this mountain range in the flat lands I can easily talk 50+ miles the prob is I am very limited locally and just several DB increments transmitting could make such a difference. I wish mounting location and tree removal landlord etc. were not an issue but I am locked in to this local and antenna length money and more but I could modify my current antenna with the ground plane addition if it is not a waste of money. Thanks so much for all the replies so far, very much appreciated!
B
BOOTY MONSTER
Guest
you can make one to test to see if it will help cheaply . i made one with speaker wire and sch40 pvc pipe . i think the GP kits for the 99/2000 are only 72 inches (someone correct me if i'm wrong) but i'm a believer in full 1/4 wavelength ground elements so mine were 108 inches .
don't forget your coax choke
I would make a simple replica as BM suggests before purchasing anything. I personally don't think it would make much difference in the end, but I don't know for sure.
Some of these antennas designed for no ground plane get no additional benefit from adding a ground plane, some do. It is one of those hit or miss things. If you know the angle and number of the radials in that the ground plane kit your were referring to you can make a simple temporary version using wire to see if there is any difference before putting out the money.
If you already made the purchase, it doesn't hurt to put it on and see that way. I just wouldn't make the purchase without trying it first if you haven't already.
The DB
Some of these antennas designed for no ground plane get no additional benefit from adding a ground plane, some do. It is one of those hit or miss things. If you know the angle and number of the radials in that the ground plane kit your were referring to you can make a simple temporary version using wire to see if there is any difference before putting out the money.
If you already made the purchase, it doesn't hurt to put it on and see that way. I just wouldn't make the purchase without trying it first if you haven't already.
The DB
I take it a step farther, I will often make my custom counterpoise resonate on the intended frequencies of use with the antenna itself acting as the counterpoise. Resonance over resonance can't be a bad thing... That may just be me and getting a bit off topic I think...
The DB
B
BOOTY MONSTER
Guest
Talking HF not VHF or UHF.
You use a double extended Zep for a vertical? Discussing vertical HF ground plane.
Yes 10/12 meters it is feasable to use a 5/8 wl vert for those bands.
Can also use a 40 meter 1/4 wl as a 15 meter 5/8 wl with a match at the base and a relay to switch it to direct feed.
Dipoles? Once again this is vertical discussion.
160 meter vertical? Shunt feed tower?
I used an 80 meter vert direct fed made from tower, and a match at the base to make it into a 40 meter 1/2wl.
I can say that 1/2 wl on 40 kicked some good dx.
Always fun to experiment with antennas. Best part of the hobby IMO.
You use a double extended Zep for a vertical? Discussing vertical HF ground plane.
Yes 10/12 meters it is feasable to use a 5/8 wl vert for those bands.
Can also use a 40 meter 1/4 wl as a 15 meter 5/8 wl with a match at the base and a relay to switch it to direct feed.
Dipoles? Once again this is vertical discussion.
160 meter vertical? Shunt feed tower?
I used an 80 meter vert direct fed made from tower, and a match at the base to make it into a 40 meter 1/2wl.
I can say that 1/2 wl on 40 kicked some good dx.
Always fun to experiment with antennas. Best part of the hobby IMO.