Ground plane kits?

[The DB]

Talking HF not VHF or UHF.

You use a double extended Zep for a vertical? Discussing vertical HF ground plane.

Yes 10/12 meters it is feasable to use a 5/8 wl vert for those bands.

Can also use a 40 meter 1/4 wl as a 15 meter 5/8 wl with a match at the base and a relay to switch it to direct feed.

Dipoles? Once again this is vertical discussion.

160 meter vertical? Shunt feed tower?

I used an 80 meter vert direct fed made from tower, and a match at the base to make it into a 40 meter 1/2wl.

I can say that 1/2 wl on 40 kicked some good dx.

Always fun to experiment with antennas. Best part of the hobby IMO.

Isn't this getting a bit beyond what would be useful to the op?

No, I have yet to see a double extended zepp vertical. That being said I have been bouncing a few ideas around in my head for such an antenna. I would love to try it just to do it once you know? Perhaps one of these days... I'm curious how it would do on a band I use typically for local communications, like, you know, 11 meters, compared to my existing 5/8...

I have seen center fed vertical dipoles, usually used as stealth antennas. Very easy to hide, and if it was done well unless you know it is there you will usually never even see it.

Most DX antennas I use tend to be horizontal... That being said, my favorite antenna of all time was a metal slinky run through a tuner, it was held up with a wooden broomstick. We used to use it for 40 through 10 meters, tons of DX contacts from that antenna from the bottom floor of an apartment building. Non-ham friends always commented on it, and some though it was there as "art". It is one of many crazy sounding ideas we used to play with back in the day before I moved across the state...

The antennas made out of water were an interesting experiment, and mixing in different agents in different amounts to see which would radiate better.

And yes, I have successfully tuned a wet noodle to 160 meters after being challenged... No I didn't make any contacts with it that day, but it did have a good SWR match, which was the bet... The guy still owes me $50.

I'm done with this line of conversation and going back to the ops main focus now.


The DB

 

[wavrider]

Look at the radiation pattern of the double extended Zepp, using it as a vertical will be a cloud warmer, two major lobes coming off at a 45 degree angle from the end of the wire. Inverted L may be a better option for local and DX.


Back to the ground radials.

If you install them it will de couple the radiating element from the coax somewhat.

As it is now your coax is the counterpoise for your radiating element. Not a bad thing but also not that efficient. Many type of vertical use the coax as a counterpoise, as do some amateur antennas as well.

As DOC said try it, it may work better or you may get a lower angle of radiation and it will be worse for local comms.

The radials will need to be bent at a 30 degree or 45 degree angle to get a decent VSWR match.

I would also recommend a line isolator ro 1:1 current choke at the feed point, or just a simple rf choke made of coax. This will help eliminate the coax from being a radiator and improve the efficiency of the antenna.

Either way experiment and have fun.

 

[W5LZ]

I really wonder about this preoccupation with radiation angles. High is good, low is bad, or, high is bad and low is good. There isn't an 'on/off' switch with that, either will let you talk to both local and distant stations, it isn't determined strictly by the TOA. Of course TOAs do play a part in it, but not as much as propagation does, and propagation changes all the time.
- 'Doc

 

[Mudfoot]

It's mostly the result of a little OCD.

 

[hammer0630]

Thanks everyone! Very good info and should shed some light on these "Ground Plane Kits" for others who have viewed this article also. My gut feeling right from the beginning is that it is a gimmick. And I also see that basically on this forum where everyone who commented has above average technical ability does not have one but yet it might help in my situation. Like it was earlier stated try it it might work. Thanks again fellas.

 

[northern35s]

Thanks everyone! Very good info and should shed some light on these "Ground Plane Kits" for others who have viewed this article also. My gut feeling right from the beginning is that it is a gimmick. And I also see that basically on this forum where everyone who commented has above average technical ability does not have one but yet it might help in my situation. Like it was earlier stated try it it might work. Thanks again fellas.

A good groundplane is anything but a gimmick, and most people don't use them because they don't understand the benefit, and only usually consider them when they have a problem they think a grounplane will fix, however a groundplane used on it's own, rather than as a part of a complete solution, probably won't be of benefit, as already identified above, an RF choke on the coax should be used at the same time, along with isolating the antenna from it's metal mast.

I'd suggest a little study is required with regard to radiation angle, and a good place to start is with a free account on the Cebik website, here's a link to one article in particular that graphically explains the subject matter, my advice would be to not get too lost in the detail, but notice that radiation angle is affected not just by the length of the antenna, or it's radials, but the angle of such, the height of the antenna, and the ground over which the antenna stands:

The 5/8-Wavelength Mystique
3. Upper HF Monopoles and
a "Poorly Grounded" Speculation

http://www.cebik.com/content/gp/58-3.html