Handitalke to base station

[parttimehammer]

Hey all,

I got a 2M/440 base station antenna for my birthday last year and am looking into buying a base station rig for it. Right now I just have a handi talke, but it seems to help a great deal. Was wondering, if I get a base station rig, is it possilbe to use my current handi talke to transmit on one freq that the base staiton can pick up, have the base station retransmit that on the proper repeater freq for my area, and then have the process repeated the other way, the repeater output tone is retransmited thru my base station to my handitalkie?

Thanks
KJ6PYF

 

[KingCobra_CDX882]

Look Here ==>>http://www.worldwidedx.com/vhf-uhf-...ossband-repeat-legally-your-base-station.html

Also Here ==>> Crossband Repeater Operation


That should give you an idea of what you are trying to do.
Some HT's are easier to do this with.
When set up with specific Base radios.

If i remember Kenwood Sky Command is well known for this
Here ==>> Kenwood Sky Command System II+

Good Luck..

Although i have several base radios and HT's..
Just to do so i Often use my HT with the base antenna
and manage to get out 50+ miles in VHF/UHF

 

[Nicholas440]

When you do decide to hook that antenna up to your rig, I would suggest you also use a good quality coax such as LMR 400 or 9913 because at VHF and UHF frequencies, using a cheap poor grade coax will be like trying to water your lawn with a hose thats full of pinholes, less then half the water will make it to the lawn. Same with coax, if you're running 100 feet of it , check the charts on the loss factor per 100 feet, you'll be amazed at how much of your watts never makes it up the antenna. I use LMR 400, and about 120 feet of it, and Ive been pleased with it. Your coax is like the heart of the system, it has to be good quality.

Cross banding your HT to the Base radio will work but read the links that were given to you and follow the rules. I have a base rig that will crossband with my HT, but I dont run any higher than low power on it because the radios are not repeaters, they were not designed to run a 100% duty cycle, and will get very hot. Some years ago I toasted a nice Kenwood TM 721 by crossbanding it on high power, it literally smoked the board around the finals and the rig was toasted. Cross banding can be fun to do, but be sure to follow the rules, and run low power if you can. Remember if someone on a repeater is long winded a lot your base rig is going to really heat up fast. The newer radios will have a time out timer which is usually 3 minutes to protect the radio but I would still use caution with the power settings.

Good luck...

 

[W5LZ]

Yes, it's possible to do what you described in your post, but there are a few 'catches' to it as described in later posts. You would have to do that 'connecting' by 'cross-banding', it can't usually be done on the same band because of the limitations of 'normal' radios. And without very careful selection of frequencies on BOTH bands, it can turn out to be a real mess/interference to others.
When speaking of doing that cross-banding when connected to a repeater it's bascally a 'link' to that repeater. Depending on how it's done, it requires cooperation with the repeater's owner which may not be given, it's not a 'sure thing'.
Doing a lot of thinking before hand saves a lot of aggravation later. So, think about it.
- 'Doc

 

[Blue Jay]

I do this very thing, HT is a Yeasuft-60r that will cross band (TX on one band and RX on another band), I have an Icom IC-2720 in the qth + in the mobile, I set the HT to RX on 2M repeater output and TX on 70CM band, IC-2720 is set to RX on 70CM from HT and then cross band to 2M repeater input with PL but then use a different PL for tone Squelch so other stations using 2M repeater normally do NOT cross band back out on 70CM.

This takes care of all ID requirements as the HT is the only one transmitting on the 70CM band and when I ID it is on every Freq. that my radios transmit on.

 

[n0zna]

got to remoteshack.com they have interface boxs to run any radio to hf from 2 or 440mhz to hf...73 de JW

 

[hookedon6]

...I set the HT to RX on 2M repeater output and TX on 70CM band, IC-2720 is set to RX on 70CM from HT and then cross band to 2M repeater input with PL but then use a different PL for tone Squelch so other stations using 2M repeater normally do NOT cross band back out on 70CM.

This takes care of all ID requirements as the HT is the only one transmitting on the 70CM band and when I ID it is on every Freq. that my radios transmit on.

that is not full control and proper id ing,........... what STOPS or ID's ALL OTHER 70 cm----> 2 meter transmissions?

ALL transmissions must have a valid call transmision,..... and you don't

 

[Blue Jay]

that is not full control and proper id ing,........... what STOPS or ID's ALL OTHER 70 cm----> 2 meter transmissions?

ALL transmissions must have a valid call transmision,..... and you don't

The tone squelch (on 2M) set on the IC2720 stops any transmission out on 70Cm so it is a one way repeater. HT xmit on 70Cm with id and then xmit on 2M same id.
Xmit on 2M only none on 70CM by IC2720 so how am I not id'ing properly?

 

[hookedon6]

The tone squelch (on 2M) set on the IC2720 stops any transmission out on 70Cm so it is a one way repeater. HT xmit on 70Cm with id and then xmit on 2M same id.
Xmit on 2M only none on 70CM by IC2720 so how am I not id'ing properly?

HUH????? what the $%&# is a "one way repeater"?:blink:

you do NOT have positive control over the "tone squelched" TX,........... anyone CAN still make it XMIT simply by using to correct tone.

you have made it inconvient/difficult for some one to use,........ but you still do not have positive control, as required.

the point is,................your "one way repeater" can be accessed by someone else using their own equipment and the correct tone

 

[Blue Jay]

HUH????? what the $%&# is a "one way repeater"?:blink:

you do NOT have positive control over the "tone squelched" TX,........... anyone CAN still make it XMIT simply by using to correct tone.

you have made it inconvient/difficult for some one to use,........ but you still do not have positive control, as required.

the point is,................your "one way repeater" can be accessed by someone else using their own equipment and the correct tone

First off this is not left up 24/7 only when needed,ie for our weekly net and I happen to be at the supper table, other time would be when the club does a public service event. I might ask how many hams would be trying on a repeater input with a tone other than what brings up the repeater to see if they could cause an illegal transmission when they don't even know if there is a cross band repeater in operation?

 

[Nicholas440]

You set your base radio up for 2 meter repeater and 440 simplex....

You set your HT on a 440 simplex freq using a ctcss tone....

You say " Hello this is WXYABC for ID " on your 440 side of your HT.. so far your legal, you said your call, your HT sent it on 440 to the base, the base put it out on 2 meters to the repeater to everyone listening, so far your still legal.

The person on the repeater says "Hi this is ABCXYZ " this comes in on 2 meters to your base radio... the base transfers it to the 440 band and sends this to your HT on 440 simplex and to anyone else listening in on that 440 simplex freq, however, your base radio did not transmit your call sign over that 440 simplex freq. You said your id, it went out on 440 to your base your base sent it to the repeater, everyone is happy.

Unless your base radio has a built in ID'er to send your call sign every 10 minutes on that 440 simplex freq going BACK to your HT, it's not legal.

Anyone listening to that 440 simplex freq with the proper ctcss tones will hear the base radio talk to you on 440... they will NOT hear it announce your call sign unless it has a built in IDer and it ID's every 10 minutes on its own.... Thats what the book says...

Most new base or mobile rigs now have built in ID'ers, some have CW, some have Voice and CW, your choice. The problem comes in when these radios do the ID every 10 minutes because it's sent out on ALL bands, both the 440 that you are on and to the repeater on 2 meters, so everyone has to listen to your radio ID with CW every 10 minutes... This can get very annoying, and in some cases people will complain, or the repeater owner can kick you off of that repeater for annoying everyone with your cw every 10 minutes on his repeater.... This has happened.... Personally I see no problem with the CW ID, because the repeaters ID all day every day in CW and we hear it....Some repeaters only ID in cw, no recorded announcement or voice ID's at all.... But here again you are NOT running a repeater when you are cross banding your base rig... you are in a sense operating your own repeater if you wish to call it that temporarily until youre done cross banding... Your base radio also has to have a time out timer, just in case something goes wrong or gets stuck you as the operator need to be in total control and need to be able to shut it down should a problem arise...

It should be set up so the base only ID's on the freq YOU choose which would be the 440 simplex so that your ID comes back to you from your base with an ID. This is a technicality because who's going to be sitting in your yard listening to your 1/2 watt 440 simplex freq with the oddball ctcss tone that you have chosen? And also your base radio might be set on 5 watts and that will send your simplex transmission out from your base antenna for a long way, so think about that too... Are they going to scan all the ctcss tones just to find which one you're talking simplex to your base on ? Maybe...maybe not, but thats what the law says you have to ID on each freq you are on as the control operator.

Most hams just set up the cross bander, and they ID as required, however its not going on all freq's going to and from your base radio is where the problem comes in.. I personally would like to see the base radio do the ID in YOUR voice from a memory chip thats recorded into or programmed into the radio when you get it and set up your call sign....

Just my 2 cents... it's a very thin line, and for the most part, the only problem I see is your 440 simplex from your base to your HT might be heard by another radio and it's not going to hear an ID.... and the book says your ID has to be on every freq you are on.. it has to be heard going out and coming back to your HT... to be legal... So make sure your base sends out your call sign back to your HT on that 440 freq and you're legal ... does that make any sense? It's tricky, but the FCC says thats how it has to be..

 

[hookedon6]

... this is WXYABC for ID " on your 440 side of your HT.. so far your legal, you said your call, your HT sent it on 440 to the base, the base put it out on 2 meters to the repeater to everyone listening, so far your still legal...

Unless your base radio has a built in ID'er to send your call sign every 10 minutes on that 440 simplex freq going BACK to your HT, it's not legal.

Anyone listening to that 440 simplex freq with the proper ctcss tones will hear the base radio talk to you on 440... they will NOT hear it announce your call sign unless it has a built in IDer and it ID's every 10 minutes on its own.... Thats what the book says... you as the operator need to be in total control ... you have to ID on each freq you are on as the control operator. ..

'XACTLY correct!
YOUR equipment,........
YOUR control operator respnsibilities........
don't try to pass the buck and blame some OTHER Amateur,...
.97.103 (a) clearly states it IS your YOUR responsibility.

 

[hookedon6]

...I might ask how many hams would be trying on a repeater input with a tone other than what brings up the repeater to see if they could cause an illegal transmission...

??? cause an illegal transmission?............ as long as they id with THEIR call, THEY are legal

. your non id'ed link would be the illegal action

 

[Blue Jay]

The way I have it set up the base radio will only transmit on the 70CM band if some one had the proper tone on the 2M side and it is different than what it takes to bring up the repeater so the only transmission taking place on the 70CM band comes from my HT. This way I ID on each band my equipment can transmit on is covered.

As far as control is concerned when I do it at the QTH I am about 45' from the base radio and since I listen on the repeater output with the HT I could tell if there was a problem and walk to the radio room and turn it off with no problem. When I do it from the mobile I have not been over 300 yards and it is in plane site for observation and would be no problem to walk to the truck and turn it off.

So where is the problem with control or ID?

 

[Nicholas440]

The way I have it set up the base radio will only transmit on the 70CM band if some one had the proper tone on the 2M side and it is different than what it takes to bring up the repeater so the only transmission taking place on the 70CM band comes from my HT. This way I ID on each band my equipment can transmit on is covered.

As far as control is concerned when I do it at the QTH I am about 45' from the base radio and since I listen on the repeater output with the HT I could tell if there was a problem and walk to the radio room and turn it off with no problem. When I do it from the mobile I have not been over 300 yards and it is in plane site for observation and would be no problem to walk to the truck and turn it off.

So where is the problem with control or ID?

I assume you are only transmitting one way, and that is half duplexing, where you transmit to your base, it transmits to the repeater, and you in turn listen to that repeaters output with your HT. The same HT you do yout transmitting with on the 440 band,, to your base radio. This will work, and it is fine because your base radio is not resending the repeaters output anywhere. As was mentioned you can cross band this way as long as you can hear the repeater on your HT there is no ID problem.

The problem only occurs when the operator is transmitting to his base on 440, then the base resends that to the 2 meter repeater, and when the base hears the repeater it in turn resends that info out on the 440 side back to the HT, however, if there is no ID on the return side thats a problem. If you have it set so your base needs a certain ctcss tone in order to retransmit the repeaters info over the 440 band thats ok because as you said the base rig will not send it on the 440 side without the proper tone that you have selected. And if anyone does find that tone, they need to ID over it not you. So all is well in the half duplex situation.

My cross banding was done that way, as I could always hear the repeater on my dual band HT. My HT was set to listen on 2 meters and transmit on 440 to my base. I assume you do the same. And as long as you can access the base in the event of a problem youre good to go, since you do have control of the station at all times.

Well done...