HELP!!!how to custom alternator setup-regulated/unregulated

[M0GVZ]

Thanks to everyone...I really appreciate the help...it's has opened my mind up to alot..i am very much interested in the bonding u speak of mogvz I've never heard of that before...
not going towards the keydown thing jus thought it would be nice to have that extra mudduck hammer for some of the locals I run with...

I had a friend who was a trucker who did a piss poor antenna install. With 100W he couldn't make it 5 miles up the motorway (freeway) which was straight and level with nothing in the way and it was also as deaf as a post. However with my properly installed Sirio 3000 talking to another friend with his properly installed Sirio Performer 5000, we were able to have a conversation over 30 miles on just 4W. Truck driving friend happened to be in the other friend's car at the time. Suffice to say we redid his antenna.

Have you ever had a light bulb in your house that glows dim and when you investigate it, one of the wires has come off the bulb socket? When you have a poor RF ground on a mobile install, your signal is like the dim bulb because you've only got one half of the "circuit". What the aim of bonding is is to maximise the flow of RF over the body of the vehicle and thus improve how well your signal radiates.

Basically bonding requires the use of flat braid straps to connect all the parts of the vehicle together so you bond all four corners of the truck bed to the chassis, the cab to the chassis, the hood to the main body of the cab etc etc. As you add bonding you'll find the resonant point of the antenna alters and when you're finished you'll find you need to shorten it.

Here's some reading for you. This link is for the bonding but you may wish to look at the rest of the site. As you may conclude, to do a proper antenna system install is going to take over a day.
http://www.k0bg.com/bonding.html

As for local, assuming your antenna is installed properly how far you can talk is not dictated by the power you run but where you are. First of all you have the obvious things like hills and buildings. Next is a thing called the radio horizon which is basically limited by planet earth getting in the way due to the fact its curved. How far you can reach is dictated by the height above sea level both sides of the conversation are. Typical max range in my country is 60 miles. 100W is more than enough.

 

[binrat]

If it was me, I would do the following:
1. Bond the truck box to frame, tool box to truck box;
2. Get better coax;
3. Dual battery;
4. Large cable from alt to battery/ (my old truck I ran 6 gauge).
5. Play nice with locals with that 667

 

[357magnum]

I agree with binrat if you search this forum there is info on here about bonding that subject comes up quite often .

 

[22-9 BIG-BAM GOT-DOWN]

OMG I REALLY APPRIECIATE THE HELP GUYS!!! y'all have opened my eyes to a lot about my system it's a wonder it hasn't blown up after three yrs of daily hrs of talking...I'M SO EXCITED abt ALL the info and will be studying all week on the info y'all have blessed me with to prepare for the weekend construction...OMG I DON'T KNO HOW TO ACT RIGHT NOW I've been half a$$ myself for three yrs lol...didn't realize how important bonding was but it makes all the since in the world...hopefully after construction my swrs will be better and everything stays on frequency and works as it should...THANKS AGAIN EVERYBODY I appreciate all the help!!! 22-9 Alabama GONE!!! GONE!!! GONE!!!

 

[M0GVZ]

Very few mobile antenna installations are done properly probably because for most people they can throw a magmount on the roof and make contacts so as far as they're concerned its working fine. Its only if they come across someone who is running 1/10th the power but getting out and receiving better do some start to question if they can do better.

Most using 100W but only getting 10 miles down the road just assume that's the way it is because everyone they know is doing the same. Never does it occur to them that its because ALL of them are poor installs that they're all only getting 10 miles.

You can see bonding working as you do it. Before you start note what the lowest SWR is and what frequency/channel its on if you don't have access to an antenna analyser. As you start bonding, without tuning the antenna, you'll see where the lowest SWR is drop several channels and depending on the rig you use the SWR dip may go so far down its below the lowest channel. You should find you need to shorten the whip a fair bit from where it started by the time you've finished.

 

[M0GVZ]

If it was me, I would do the following:
1. Bond the truck box to frame, tool box to truck box;

You don't want to be mounting an antenna on the tool box etc unless the antenna base is going to be higher than the cab. The antenna wants to be clear of all vertical metal. If there's any metal shadowing the antenna that'll affect performance.

 

[binrat]

You don't want to be mounting an antenna on the tool box etc unless the antenna base is going to be higher than the cab. The antenna wants to be clear of all vertical metal. If there's any metal shadowing the antenna that'll affect performance.

While not perfect, the 102' whip base is only about 14-16' below the roof line. That's still about what over 80" of antenna over the top.

 

[M0GVZ]

The current maximum is at the base of the antenna on a 1/4 wave.

 

[binrat]

The current maximum is at the base of the antenna on a 1/4 wave.

Again, I will state it for you Connor. "While not perfect, the 102' whip base is only about 14-16' below the roof line. That's still about what over 80" of antenna over the top."
he has been running it for 3 years now with good results,unless there is major problems I would recommend to him to leave it there. Why drill more holes in his truck.

 

[22-9 BIG-BAM GOT-DOWN]

So should I check my swrs with my 667 on as well as off. I get good swr results with it off(below 1.5) but it peggs the needle in the red with it on...iv asked around locally before with mixed results so I jus left it alone since I could get out fine but always wondered why it got so hot but realized it doesn't have a built in fan so again I jus dismissed it and kept on using it without any known problems

 

[AudioShockwav]

I really really suggest that you put a fan on it.
The 667 is a real beast as far as heat goes, the driver transistor ( or MOSFETS depending on the model) add to the heat being produced by the amp.
Heat is the enemy when it comes to electronics.
Are you re-calibrating the SWR meter when switching the amp on?

I have been running some variant of a 1/4 wave for years mounted at the rear corner of the bed rail on my trucks, works fine.
I did some testing a couple years back using a couple of open loaded coil antennas with 22" shaft and 27" shaft lengths and also 2 fiberglass 1/4 wave antennas talking to Robb @ 150 miles plus away, the difference switching between antennas was not astronomical.
The testing, including audio clips can be found here on the forum.
I was in the mobile, he was at his base station.
In an everyday setting I doubt that anyone on the receiving end would have been able to tell the difference unless they were watching signal levels closely.
As radio Ops, I think the difference between antennas in mobile setups is over stated.
I have had people tell me that switching antennas has provided S3, S4, S+9 increase in signal levels.....something I have never been able to achieve in my experience over many years playing radio mobile unless the first antennas was a terrible example to start with.

73
Jeff

 

[22-9 BIG-BAM GOT-DOWN]

Hummm interesting Test...yes i recalibrate between the two I'm positive my reflect is terrible partly because my antenna being so low and close to the back of the cab but also because of the new found reasons jus wanted to be sure if I should be checking my swrs with the 667 on and expect reflect to be high or do wat I can to get them as low as possible with it on...it goes up and down with modulation to but not sure if that Matters...this is the last step to the mobile station rebuild as I'm finishing up on the new bonding, antenna mount and coax equipment...jus wanted to make sure once I start testing I'll be doing it right...I DON'T MEAN TO BE DRAGGING THIS ON THO but y'all BY FAR have been the most help with nowhere else to go so sorry but thanks again GOOOONNNNEE!!!!

 

[222DBFL]

It's best to check the swr readings with the amp off as most meters can't handle the power of an amp, remember with every change you have to calibrate your swr meter and yes it will go up and down with modulation. To Properly check swr, find a large area free of any obstructions for at least 50-75ft in all directions, close all doors and windows, set your dead key on the radio to 4 watts or as close as possible, turn the mic gain all the way down (no modulation), these steps as well as calibrating the meter for every change will help. Good luck and ask as many questions as needed!! God bless.

 

[M0GVZ]

So should I check my swrs with my 667 on as well as off. I get good swr results with it off(below 1.5) but it peggs the needle in the red with it on...

You're probably getting high SWR because of a poor grounding solution. What coax are you using? RG58 just isn't going to handle it.

You also need to check the SWR between the amp and the antenna with the amp running because it will highlight problems of poor grounding or issues with the coax power handling.

 

[22-9 BIG-BAM GOT-DOWN]

THANKS 222dbl...ok so this is how its connected...radio pos/neg connected to front battery...amp connected to last battery connected parallel with front battery with 2feet of 6guage wire to amp and prob 4feet between the two batterys...ok three foot mini8 coax from radio to trans/receive section of amp, three foot mini8 coax from antenna amp setion to trans/receive section of pep/avrg power/swr meter...18ft mini8 coax from antenna section of meter to 102"ss whip via mirror mount mounted behind cab behind tool box which I will be moving to the top of cab via puck mount on roof of cab...so with that setup I can check the radios swrs between the antenna and also the amp/radio combo as well unless that is incorrect setup also...20max pep with radio, 550 max pep with 667 at full modulation variable wide open voltage drop from 14.6 to 13 with 2watt dk...hopefully switching the antenna location will solve a lot of the reflect but im still in for the bonding job regardless...so to be clear I should be getting swr numbers below 1.5;1 with amp on and at full modulation or without modulation because its in the red above 3:1 with modulation but deadkeys 2:1...I know I shouldn't hit it with 4watts deadkey but jus to throw it in there when I do it deadkeys swrs above 3:1 into the corner but with modulation it comes back down just below 3:1 jus trying to throw all scenarios out there...I really want this thing to be as best as it can be...I love this hobby with a passion and cant wait to see the outcome...THAMKS AGAIN 22-9 BIG BAM GONE BYE BYE BYE!!!!