Help me put together a remote VHF base?

[Moleculo]

I'm contemplating constructing a remote base for 2 meters. The goal would be to be able to use an HT on any band other than 2 meters (220, 440, 1.2Ghz, etc. ) to access my remote base, while the remote is operating on whatever 2 meter frequency I want. I don't want to do this using a traditional crossband repeat radio, and I don't want to use echolink, IRLP, etc.

I know a lot of people do this, but I'm not sure what equipment is needed? Can someone point me in the right direction?

 

[RemoteShack]

RemoteShack

you can try a RemoteShack.com

73

 

[Moleculo]

you can try a RemoteShack.com

73

That's an interesting product, but I can do all of that with a PC interface and Ham Radio Deluxe with Skype. If one didn't want to configure all of that, the RemoteShack certainly looks like a plug & play type of deal. I also want to use a remote HT to get into the remote base, not a cell phone or other IP based device.

 

[FatHam]

Okay, so I polled some users on a local repeater that I know has at least six remotes on it. Every one of them so far is cross band repeat with remote control via either the phone or internet.

Some of the better radios allow control (power level, frequency, on/off, etc...) through DTMF tones, but all of these guys are still on remote "power off" switches, in case someone is able to detect their DCS tone and jamb their base. One of the switches mentioned was the "Low Cost Web Power Switch", which allows internet control of eight different circuits. $129 Web Power Switch! - 15 Day Free Trial! - Ships Overnight - From $109!

I know that their are some FCC issues with cross band repeat (which I really don't understand), but I would REALLY like to figure this out as I'm very limited to the repeaters that I can hit from work since my shop sits at the base of a hill that blocks most of them. I do have line of site to my base which is only a couple of miles away and at a higher elevation (no problem hitting repeaters from there).

The problem as I understand it is that the remote base (on x-band 440 in/2m out) isn't going to rebroadcast all of a call sign on 440, or that the delay in the x-band will cut off a portion of the call sign. Correct? I know that people will run a duplexer out of the base radio, sending the 2m signal out on a roof top (or higher) antenna, while sending the 440 signal through a small interior antenna to greatly reduce the 440's footprint. While that would probably work great close to the house, I don't know that it would work from three miles away like I'd need it to.

I've also heard mention of using an "ID'er" on the 440 side to cover the call sign issue, but wouldn't not talking the second you hit the key get around the delay and get the call sign out?

Sure would like to get this figured out w/o breaking any rules (or the bank)!

 

[FatHam]

I think it get it now... If the base is re-transmitting the 2m signals of others on the 440 side, it's transmitting w/o your ID. Is that it?

 

[Moleculo]

I think it get it now... If the base is re-transmitting the 2m signals of others on the 440 side, it's transmitting w/o your ID. Is that it?

Right, if the 440 side of the base is outputting a signal that has a much larger coverage area than your HT (it will in this scenario) then you're ID isn't being heard.

 

[FatHam]

You've said that a number of times, but it never registered that it's putting out on the 440 side when someone ELSE is talking on 2m. Not just when I'm on the key.

 

[Moleculo]

You've said that a number of times, but it never registered that it's putting out on the 440 side when someone ELSE is talking on 2m. Not just when I'm on the key.

That's correct. The way to solve the problem is if the radio has a CW auto IDer built in. Some of the Kenwood radios have this. There are a few auto-ider's available that you can purchase/build, as well.

 

[Blue Jay]

You could do as I have worked out. Cross band radio receives on 70cm band and then transmits on repeater up link with a tone squelch different than repeater tone, HT receives on repeater output and transmits on 70cm band.

That way the base radio does not cross band repeat back to the 70cm side and I have eleminated the ID problem as I ID on 70cm is done with the HT and that is the only transmission on 70cm band.

 

[hookedon6]

You could do as I have worked out. Cross band radio receives on 70cm band and then transmits on repeater up link with a tone squelch different than repeater tone, HT receives on repeater output and transmits on 70cm band.

That way the base radio does not cross band repeat back to the 70cm side and I have eleminated the ID problem as I ID on 70cm is done with the HT and that is the only transmission on 70cm band.

if in this case,............ IF the repeater is NOT on 70 CM,.............. then you are NOT legal.

 

[Moleculo]

if in this case,............ IF the repeater is NOT on 70 CM,.............. then you are NOT legal.

How do you figure? Under this scenario you're ID'ing on 70cm and all 2m frequencies in use. Your callsign is being heard everywhere your signal is going. What regulation am I missing that prohibits this? I hear A LOT of remote bases that are configured exactly this way, even on linked systems.

 

[Moleculo]

You could do as I have worked out. Cross band radio receives on 70cm band and then transmits on repeater up link with a tone squelch different than repeater tone, HT receives on repeater output and transmits on 70cm band.

That way the base radio does not cross band repeat back to the 70cm side and I have eleminated the ID problem as I ID on 70cm is done with the HT and that is the only transmission on 70cm band.

That way is workable if your HT is in range of hearing the repeater. Under this scenario, I believe your crossband repeater setup would fall under the Auxiliary Station guidelines.

 

[hookedon6]

How do you figure? Under this scenario you're ID'ing on 70cm and all 2m frequencies in use. Your callsign is being heard everywhere your signal is going. What regulation am I missing that prohibits this? I hear A LOT of remote bases that are configured exactly this way, even on linked systems.

97.119 (a) he is NOT id'ing on BOTH his TRANSMITTING CHANNELS (ffc word ... channel, not mine).... he is only id'ing on one band and it is being REPEATED on another band.

 

[Moleculo]

97.119 (a) he is NOT id'ing on BOTH his TRANSMITTING CHANNELS (ffc word ... channel, not mine).... he is only id'ing on one band and it is being REPEATED on another band.

You're reading a meaning into something that is not there. His ID is being transmitted on all frequencies that his voice is being transmitted on. The way you are interpreting 97.119(a), we would also have to switch over to a repeater output frequency and transmit our callsign there every 10 minutes, which simply isn't the case.

-He is transmitting on 440: callsign is being transmitted by the 440 radio
-He is transmitting on a 2m repeater input frequency - callsign is being transmitted on that frequency by his 2m crossbander on that same radio
-Repeater is repeating his transmission on the output - his callsign is heard there, too.

97.119 (a)Each amateur station, except a space station or telecommand station, must transmit its assigned call sign on its transmitting channel at the end of each communication, and at least every ten minutes during a communication, for the purpose of clearly making the source of the transmissions from the station known to those receiving the transmissions.

His callsign is being heard clearly on all bands that his station is transmitting on for the purpose of clearly making the source of the transmissions from the station known to those receiving the transmissions. The entirety of 97.119(a) is a complete thought, a single sentence, and it must be read in its entirety to understand the purpose. You can't just take a portion of the entire sentence and interpret that on its own.

 

[Blue Jay]

if in this case,............ IF the repeater is NOT on 70 CM,.............. then you are NOT legal.

I am id-ing on 70cm with the Ht and on 2m with my cross bander so that covers every where my transmission can be heard. With the tone squelch setup on the cross bander (unless someone can guess what it is) the base only transmits on 2m and NOT 70cm. I also have the 70cm receiver setup with a tone squelch so only I trigger it thus eleminating the possability of the 2m side transmitting by a stray signal.

I ran this by an OO and he said no problem with my setup as all id-ing has been taken care of.