Hygain Penetrator is a highly touted 5/8 wave antenna.

[CDX-007]

Hi Bob,

No pictures, but the Taylor GLR-4 was coil loaded at the bottom and fully made from 6061 T-6. It flexed a lot more than a P500 in the wind, but worked as well from what I remember. I seem to recall that I didn't like the radials because they drooped a bit, unlike the Penetrator radials, so I sold it and bought a Penetrator, the one I still have!

If I'm remembering correctly it looked just like the P500 and the R/S .64, but with somewhat drooping radials and a gray PVC cover over the coil below the radials, at the bottom of the radiator.

 

[bob85]

hey 007, i am trying to find out about a 5/8wave i had years ago but never knew who made it,
it was pretty well made with 3 9ft radials that slotted into the upper insulator on the bracket, the insulator looked like white nylon, the lower part of the radiator was a grey tube covering a heavier than usual tapped wire coil, the radiator was fatter than my a/s magnum3 or skipmaster 5/8,
never seen one since or anything on the net,
im almost out of possibilities.

 

[CDX-007]

Too long a stroll down amnesia lane!

Gosh Bob, I wish I could remember back that far back with a detailed enough memory to describe it in detail, but I was barely 16 and only had that antenna installed for a week or so then sold it, so I just don't recall those particulars.

Eddie (Wolf) had one, if you contact him he might recall if that was what you described.

73

 

[Bomber]

500

I have the penetrator 500 up here about 50 ft and I love it and it will take the wind and ice .

 

[Gearhead]

I replaced my old penetrator with an I-10k, and let a friend borrow my p-500, after his 3rd I-max 2000 broke. After using the penetrator, he said he'll never go back to fiberglass.
I think the p-500 was better than the I-10k in the recieve department, but barely noticable. One huge difference, is that when it rains, the SWR on the p-500 goes up, and my I-10k is not affected. I've had 1/4" of ice coating my antenna, and still had less than 1.5 SWR.

 

[CDX-007]

007 those boys in the desert dont do anything very quickly
...do you have any pics of the taylor antenna?

Here you go: Taylor GLR-4 "Grand Slammer 6400" CB Radio Base Antenna - eBay (item 230331444548 end time May-18-09 14:01:38 PDT)

 

[CDX-007]

Wonder what the next .64 Penetrator 'clone' will look like.

 

[baublitz]

verticle radiator length?

I have a super penetrator and I want to set the verticle radiator back to factory specs for ch (19).

My problem is that I loaned it to a ham buddy and he shortened the verticle radiator for (10) meters and forgot to mark it where I had it set for a good match for talking to my trucker buddy's on 27.185 mhz.

man o man.... I wish I had never loaned it out, cause now after trying to find the original setting by using a power/swr meter has been a hassle and I still can't find a good enough match to suit me. 2 to 1 so far with the verticle radiator set at 17' 10-1/2 inches.

I see in some forums people having the super penetrator talk about 20 feet being the original setting. I am going to try this next.

I suppose I am dreaming about asking for a copy of the original installation manual for the super penetrator collinear 500, Right?

Help.......I'm going nuts here !

Dick Baublitz xpi
389 ruby lane
carson city, Nevada 89706
blitz@iqemail.com

I didn't see where it said anything about the ground radial systems in your earlier posts. But I have some insight on that subject.

Hy-gain placed their ground radials about 12" up from the base of the main element. I have always thought this to be a disadvanage of this antenna.

The Avanti's ground radials are approximately 3" BELOW the base of the main element. See my pictures here. This is what I reference when I talk about Avanti's elevated feed system. I believe this gives the Avanti an advantage over the Penetrator.

What other antenna on the market uses an elevated feed? The I-10K! We can agree that this antenna is superior to both the Penetrator and my beloved Sigma 5/8.

We have discussed it before, but before there was an I-10K, there was the Mastadon 5000! The Mastadon was an admitted copy of the Penetrator, but with an upgraded feedpoint. The Penetrator could only handle 1.5KW or so (published data) and the Jay and Steve show wanted more from this design. So an upgraded feedpoint was made. Still, this antenna did not perform as well as desired. So what changed? The matching network was turned horizontal and the base of the antenna was raised ABOVE the ground radials (a few other things were changed too). BAM, now they had an antenna with very low loss in the feedpoint and a main radiator that was not influenced by a near-field matching network.

It's only my opinion, but it seems to have worked for the Avanti and the I-10K. We will test a Penetrator and Avanti against eachother in May. As Shaq would say, "Let the TRUTH be told!"

 

[bob85]

thanks 007, i have not seen the taylor before,
that is not the antenna i had,
mine had 3 radials that slotted into a white nylon insulator making contact with the bracket, fatter tubing and heavier wire on the transformer,
same style bracket and grey coil cover

 

[CDX-007]

I have a super penetrator and I want to set the verticle radiator back to factory specs for ch (19).

My problem is that I loaned it to a ham buddy and he shortened the verticle radiator for (10) meters and forgot to mark it where I had it set for a good match for talking to my trucker buddy's on 27.185 mhz.

man o man.... I wish I had never loaned it out, cause now after trying to find the original setting by using a power/swr meter has been a hassle and I still can't find a good enough match to suit me. 2 to 1 so far with the verticle radiator set at 17' 10-1/2 inches.

I see in some forums people having the super penetrator talk about 20 feet being the original setting. I am going to try this next.

I suppose I am dreaming about asking for a copy of the original installation manual for the super penetrator collinear 500, Right?

Help.......I'm going nuts here !

Dick Baublitz xpi
389 ruby lane
carson city, Nevada 89706
blitz@iqemail.com

I see why you're having no luck, the Penetrator is a full .64 so you'll need about 279" of radiator from the very bottom to the tips of the top hat.

I remove the top hat radials and simply add ~9" to the overall height / length to the radiator to make up for it.

Right about 23' is suuuuper close.

Make sure you have the beta match correctly installed.

Ask & ye shall receive: Penetrator

 

[Marconi]

I see why you're having no luck, the Penetrator is a full .64 so you'll need about 279" of radiator from the very bottom to the tips of the top hat.

I remove the top hat radials and simply add ~9" to the overall height / length to the radiator to make up for it.

Right about 23' is suuuuper close.

Make sure you have the beta match correctly installed.

Ask & ye shall receive: Penetrator

I have two Penetrator Manuals with different measurements. They are both published by HyGain and show the radiators as 196" and 193 1/8" respectfully. They measure from the top of item 13, the base element in your kit, up to the tip, and it looks like the measurement does not include these wire length. The base may also be a different length as noted in the manuals that I have seen. The length is, probably 77" but it could be 71" as noted in the Telex HyGain manual.

CDX 007 gives us a link to another version that is different published by Telex HyGain. This one shows the base element #13 is 71" and to use 196" for the balance of the radiator.

Take your pick, we have numbers all over the place, who is to know?

CDX 007 tells us the antenna is a .64 wavelength, but each manual I have shows it to be a 5/8 wave, not that it really makes a bit of difference. Well, it doesn’t make a difference to me.

IMO, the top wire elements are too small to be effective as a top hat, and are probably used to help discourage lightening strikes instead.

Each manual shows the GP radials are 105".

 

[BOOTY MONSTER]

hey 007 , if i recall correctly dont you refurbish/rebuild penetrators with a few changes to how its matched or changing some parts to copper ? i bet some here would like to know how you make it better .

 

[CDX-007]

More Hygain Penetrator 500 Shyza

OK, relative to the 5/8 vs .64 issue, I have a feeling that the .64 designation, being so close to a 5/8 measurement (.625) wasn't a real concern until R/S began to advertise & sell their ".64" in the mid '70s as a superior antenna design to the 5/8.

Regarding measurements and "Who knows"...

If you add the length of the top hat radials (9.5") to the radiator (196" + 71") you'll end up with 276.5", or 23' & 1/2".

When you multiply .64 x 3 exp 10 then divide by 2.54, then divide by 27185000 (ch 19) you should see 278". Hmmm, too short an antenna by 1.5"???

- Wait, there's also radiator tubing diameter to factor in.

The base of the radiator is 1.25" diameter tubing, averaged with the 3/8" top section diameter:

1.25" x 3.1416 = about 4" for the base circumference,

.375" x 3.1416 = about 1.2" for the top section circumference

4" + 1.2" = 5.2"

5.2" / 2 = 2.6" for the average of the top & bottom radiator circumference making it's effective additional electrical long path only 1/2 of the 2.6" or 1.3", which is automatically added to the 276.5" by virtue of it's mechanical construction.

So:

1.3" + 276.5" = 277.8". Danm!

1/5th of an inch too short!

Isn't math wonderful!

========================

Hey Booty,

Yep, I replace the aluminum beta match with a copper one. I've been using one I did that to back in 1979 because I moved several times and the aluminum match didn't survive, which forced me to make due with what I had; bare 12g copper.

I've never had an issue with oxidation between the copper beta match and the aluminum radiator & brass bolts, but I have with the points where each piece of the radiator tubing telescope together. RF + aluminum + water = oxidation.

I've considered copper plating that area and may in the future.

It seems to offer a slight improvement in RX to switch the beta match from aluminum to copper, perhaps because copper has less RF resistance, and I find another improvement to the antenna is losing the top hat for a ~9" longer radiator, giving a bit more vertical capture area.

I have not noticed an increase in noise from doing this, nor have I had corona discharge issues, however, the humidity here is low enough so that I can't say for others in more humid environments if losing the top hat would cause corona issues with their 1500 watts.

73

 

[regencycb]

Starduster M800

I seem to remember a Starduster model refered to as Starduster II or M 800
It had little coils on all elements that were actually traps The antenna was also designed to receive the FM band 88-108 MHz. Marconi what part of Houston are you located I am 55 Miles south of Downtown ?


73 SD

MC are you talking about the M800 Starduster. How can those eye candy things be loads. At best they are maybe a static arrestor, which I also doubt. But I have never seen a load that looked like that. Did you also say 5/8 wave loaded. That may be BS also. They make about as much sense to me as those ground plane things at the truck stops. If that is a load, maybe I should bring me a bunch of aluminum foil along when I whip up on you boys out there in the desert with my little Starduster.

Nice anecdote Bushwacker. I'm afraid them boys out there in the desert are going to gang up on me and my little Starduster. All they have to do is not let me get some height equal to their height and the game is just even steven maybe. Bushwacker don't you think that I should be able to get the tip of my Starduster, which is only 9' tall my feed point, up as high as them 24'-30' footers that them boys are all going to be throwing at me and my little ol's SD'r? I need you vote to let me get some height at the games. But, I know it ain't gonna happen, because them boys are all scared, don't you see?

I am still waiting for you or someone that can model to try and answer my question about the raised ground plane in the Penetrator. How is that for not beaten around the bush MC, are you planning to help me out here or not. I know that 'Doc can do it, but I think he is still recooperating from his accident or he just doesn't have the energy. What happened to the other guy, no name comes to mind, that used to get in here and mix it up when the discussions got hot and heavy? How about Eddie (Wolf), Coily, QRN, Jay, some others out there.

 

[Jay in the Mojave]

Hello Dick:

All the Penetrator 500 Antennas that I have seen and repaired, from Hy-Gain had all the Aluminum Tubing inside the next sized Aluminum Tubing, of 2 1/2 inches.

So if you make sure its all together with 2 1/2 inches inside the next sixed aluminum tubing you will very close. Look at this address for the CB Tricks Penetrator 500 assembly instructions:

CBTricks Antenna Information "H" Section

You should be able to print them out and look them over. There was a Penetartor 500 that had a 74 inch piece of 1 1/4 inch diameter, P/N 13 that was 74 inches long, the oldest one. Not shown in the CB Tricks 3 ea assembly instructions. But if you assembly the antenna with the factory stock tuning wires, you can simply adjust the antennas length to get the match down. Many have done it this way.

Even if some of the aluminum tubing was cut new aluminum tubing can be bought from Texas Towers, a ham radio store.

Hope this helps.

Jay in the Mojave

I have a super penetrator and I want to set the verticle radiator back to factory specs for ch (19).

My problem is that I loaned it to a ham buddy and he shortened the verticle radiator for (10) meters and forgot to mark it where I had it set for a good match for talking to my trucker buddy's on 27.185 mhz.

man o man.... I wish I had never loaned it out, cause now after trying to find the original setting by using a power/swr meter has been a hassle and I still can't find a good enough match to suit me. 2 to 1 so far with the verticle radiator set at 17' 10-1/2 inches.

I see in some forums people having the super penetrator talk about 20 feet being the original setting. I am going to try this next.

I suppose I am dreaming about asking for a copy of the original installation manual for the super penetrator collinear 500, Right?

Help.......I'm going nuts here !

Dick Baublitz xpi
389 ruby lane
carson city, Nevada 89706
blitz@iqemail.com