I have an idea how to end the CB vrs. ham war:)

[CHARLEYMARBLES]

Why play coy just answer the question ?
you know full well what the question is and you DON'T have an answer.
The ham comunity supports "checkpoints" for inspection a clear violation of the 4th ammendment of the constition.
The ham comunity supports having outlaw radios but not allowing anyone to sell them? this one is very confusing to me but if you check there are outlaw 10m rigs for sale on QRN all the time the very same rigs "no real ham would be cought dead useing"
The ham comunity supports warentless searchs of private dwellings also a clear violation of the 4th ammendment of the constitution.

I think that should be enuff to show who it is that "thinks" they are the angels.

Chuck

 

[C W Morse]

Why play coy just answer the question ? (quote)
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Nothing "coy". I simply cannot understand your logic and I am not following your line of thought.
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you know full well what the question is and you DON'T have an answer. (quote)
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Oh, yes I do know the answer! FULL enforcement of Title 47, US Code in all its parts including Part 95 and Part 97. Uh, you DO know what Part 95 is, right? Most folks NEVER read that little technicality! Or Part 97 for that matter!
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The ham comunity supports "checkpoints" for inspection a clear violation of the 4th ammendment of the constition. (quote)
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And WHY do you think that IS? YA reckon that if the outlaw operators that come from you-know-where would stay OUT of where they don't BELONG, they might not CARE?

And, once again, the constitution has little to do with radio: only periferally. Radio is governed by ADMINISTRATIVE LAW[/i] and REGULATIONS that are specifically crafted to govern its use. (Same as EPA, or USDA, or OSHA). Just as one that drives a truck is responsible to READ, LEARN, and FOLLOW the regulations governing that activity, they are subject to the consequences of their ignorance of said regulations. US DOT regulations ALREADY state that in order to operate a commercial vehicle in the US, you MUST comply with ALL rules and regulations. With that in mind, you must not install or use any illegal device in your truck. A "10 Meter" radio installed in a vehicle is illegal because the operator (unless he actually holds an amateur license) will transmit with it. IOW, if not,WHY is it IN there if this is not the case? Once the driver transmits with the radio, he has committed an illegal act, thus violating Part 95 AND the Federal DOT regulations! In addition, radar detectors are already illegal in commercial trucks. Why not "10 Meter" radios since they are used to commit an illegal act both in the use on CB AND in transmitting on so-called "extra" channels!
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The ham comunity supports having outlaw radios but not allowing anyone to sell them? (quote)
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*I* wouldn't have one of the trashy things if they tried to give it to me! Part 97 governing amateur radio allows one to use a TOASTER if the user can get it to work and so long as it meets certain basic requirement for spectral purity. Whether YOU think it is "fair" or not, this IS the regulation(s)! Amateurs may BUILD their own transmitters from scratch if they so desire--and we DO, either from kits or by scrounging up the parts. We may also modify other transmitters to operate on the amateur bands so long as they work without causing splatter or interference to other users. We may convert CB radios to 10 Meters..........................BUT, once that is done, it may NOT EVER be returned to 27 MHZ nor may it be used as a "dual-use" transceiver. Those are the rules. You may petition for change if you wish, and that is your prerogative.
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this one is very confusing to me but if you check there are outlaw 10m rigs for sale on QRN all the time the very same rigs "no real ham would be cought dead useing" (quote)
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What is "QRN"? QRN= noise and interference!!!!
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The ham comunity supports warentless searchs of private dwellings also a clear violation of the 4th ammendment of the constitution. (quote)
***********************************************
How? Where? In what way may we do anything in regard to searching private dwellings? You really need to read about HOW obedience to REGULATIONS works and how compliance is insured! READ Part 95 where it states that, in order to operate a transmitter in the US, you MUST first agree to comply with ALL regulations governing your operations. You MUST agree to having your station INSPECTED. By picking up your mike and transmitting, you are AGREEING to obey the rules! You must comply because you do not HAVE to use a radio to live, eat, breathe, or pass gas! (Well, some of us think we can't move without a cellphone stuck to our ear! ) IF you violate the rules, you will be asked to allow the agent to inspect your station. You MAY refuse, hence there is NO constitutional issue raised. The agent may not, WILL not enter your house! However, YOU transmitted with a radio the agent has tracked to your location with some VERY accurate equipment! You agreed to the inspection by transmitting as per the regulations. Reading these regulations are YOUR responsibility, so you can't plead ignorance. SO! Refusing the inspection then will cause you to be FINED for the refusal whereas if you had just let the agent IN, you might have escaped a fine with a warning. That IS the way it works!
But NO-body is going to just barge in your house without a warrant. Inspection of radio stations and the 4th amendment are TWO separate issues.
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I think that should be enuff to show who it is that "thinks" they are the angels. (quote)
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There is NO "moral equivilency". IOW, I can-point-fingers-at-so-n-so so-as-to-justify-what-I-am doing. If an Amateur operator is, in fact, violating the regulations, then he deserves what he gets. I hope he DOES! If a CB op is violating rules, then they should be punished under the rules of their service as well. No moral equivilency.


C W M

Chuck

 

[Sonwatcher]

It's interesting how different Government offices conduct their home search. The F C C seems to be the tame one in that category. They ask and leave. The I R S is a different story. Around 6 years ago I lived in an apartment and the guy upstairs aparrently went too long to satisfy the I R S's request for payment. One day unannounced a State Trooper and some I R S agents showed up. The State Trooper took the man outside for 3 hours while the I R S agents logged his personal property for seizure. I think the best thing would be to let the F C C in and answer the letter by agreeing to discontinue the illegalities they found. Hopefully things would be dropped if you comply. Believe me it would be better to take those chances than spending the next few years dishing out hard earned money to pay a fine for not letting them in. For the last 5 years I paid around $25,000.00 to the I R S and know the hardship it causes.

 

[chipotle]

In my opinion, the FCC handles itself very well. They have little or nothing to gain by enforcing the 10 meter laws. As you can see, the fines are seldom if ever paid, and the money received does not outweigh the cost to prosecute. There is also little political benefit to an FCC executive attempting to climb the political ladder by busting a truck stop. No FCC chairman will ever become governor or attorney general by low profile truck stop busts. Further, the ARRL is now at odds with the FCC and has also lost most of its political and financial power as well.

On the other hand, the IRS is worshiped by every federal government agency because without the IRS, there can be no other federal government agencies.

The FCC doesn't have the political and financial "juice" that the IRS has. The IRS is by far the most frequently sued federal government agency in the United States, and some think the IRS has more power than the President or the Supreme Court.

Watch closely how the IRS will "intervene" in the Vic dog fighting debacle and charge him with money laundering.

 

[CHARLEYMARBLES]

I don't think I would cnocern myself with the I.R.S. unless I was running my own company and LEAGLY required to pay taxes :roll: :shock: :roll:

Afterall most of the folks who would be prosicuting you DON'T pay incometax. :x :x


Chuck

 

[novakor]

As the code requirement has been droped why not just licence CB opps as an entry level (no test) ham opperator?

Wouldn't that make for a better pathway to the higher levels of licence? And I bet you would see MORE people climb the ranks of hamdom as they would allready have a call and they would just have to test to advance? Then you could see greater oppertunity for the GOOD hams to elmer to the new radio enthuisist as they learned to have good opperating practices.

SO say entry level 11 meter band (no test) BUT hams who wanted to would not need to use a differant radio to use 11 meters just fallow the power requirements of the band they were on ? Not any differant than they do now with the other bands?

I don't know maby I'm useing a bit to much common sence here but we have all got to accept that 11meter is just as much a hobby service as any of the other bands, and like it or not the vast majority of hams DID start there so why not have it as a sanctioned testing grounds for folks who would like to see if radio is for them ?

And I think you would find that the wild 11 meter band would settle down a whole lot in the process.

Just a thought that came to me as I was reading


Chuck

You have got to be kidding me, look the entry level amateur license (tech) is so easy a 5 year old can do it. There are plenty of place's online you can study,just do it and stop trying to skirt the system.
All i got to say is Good Luck Chuck

 

[Switch Kit]

I didn't know there was a war either , I personally call it "attitude" between the two. After a few decades of being a cb'er , Lord knows I have met plenty of Ham radio operators in my time. I've also known many that were both ,Folks whom have been cb'ers for very long times didn't care to make the change over , it wasn't so much about the test , they just liked where they were to begin with, I have met and listened to all kinds on the cb radio , some good , some bad , lunitics , idiots , and agitators alike.(I've personally have been a little of them all over the years) I have heard many a Ham's come down to the 11 meter band like evangelists putting us down for what we do ,in turn just being agatators in there own ways. I personally don't have a problem with anybody and I don't care what you do as long as it doesn't have anything to do with me directly,even then,I doubt I would waste my time with you if that were to be the case. There's assholes in every bunch. If I had to be in a room full of Ham's or Cb'ers , I know where I would go. It's just a better then thou attitute over the years and that has personally been the one biggest turn off of all for me. It really wouldn't matter much where I was , I treat others the way I would want to be treated and IM personally not looking for a new adventure as far as Ham radio is concerned. Although I do think the equipment used and power allowed is AWESOME ! It still doesn't change what I am and remain to be.......Your friendly neighborhood CB'er.

 

[rfoverlord]

Wow! I can't believe we are still having these discussions. $20 bucks and 30 minutes of fill in the blank from the answers you just memorized over the last 5 days, wait another 5 days and your call will posted on the internet, and you still had enough change left over to buy the wire for your first dipole. Oh yeah thats right you didn't really learn how to do that yet.

 

[W5LZ]

Lets define an 'entry' license. What does it 'do'? It allows someone who doesn't have the slightest idea of how radio works get his/her foot in the door. It also limits the entry level operator from causing a lot of grief because they haven't learned how to 'do' things yet by limiting their usage of bands and modes. It also at least gives them an idea that touching this'n'that can be very detrimental to their health, or others, as in safety. Hmm, sounds a lot like the learner's permit for getting a driver's license, doesn't it? What's the problem with that? (I don't really see one, especially since I've had one of both.)
The 'problem' is when the 'rules' for that particular permit (notice it isn't a license?) are not followed. Those 'rules' are to teach the uninformed that there are things you should and should not do, for various reasons. They deal with safety stuff and convenience. Convenience as in not having to be eternally watching for really, really stupid drivers doing really, really stupid things and getting YOU mixed up in something you have no desire to be mixed up in, right?
The amateur service had one of those permits/licenses for years, a 'Novice'. Not sure exactly why, but it was done away with. Not really all that much of a hardship since the testing for the 'first' license, the 'Technician' has been really 'relaxed', and sort of takes the 'Novice's place. So you might say that there IS an 'entry level' license. It isn't free, and you do have to sort of learn things to get it, but, I think that's a pretty good thing. At least you won't kill your self the first rattle out of the box (maybe), and you won't cause a lot of hassle cuz you don't know what you're doing (maybe). Something that I've learned is that if it doesn't 'cost' me something to get, whatever it is that I get just doesn't mean much to me. If I have to work for it, I tend to take better care of it, you know? Another way of saying about the same thing is that if I work for it, I tend to 'live up' to it. If It's free, I feel like I can 'live down' to it. Weird? Yeah, but so am I.
All 'entry level' thingys have limitations, all of them! Don't like those limitations? Get something else with less limitations. Don't like limitations at all? Then you have problems and always will have. Sorry 'bout that.
- 'Doc


As for the 'war', best way to end it is to just don't pay any attention to it. I seriously doubt if there's still many around who were around when it started. And if you weren't there, then you aren't missing anything, and what's the difference?

 

[Marty]

Sorry, I had to vote no! and I am not a Ham.

 

[zumlin]

As the code requirement has been droped why not just licence CB opps as an entry level (no test) ham opperator?

Wouldn't that make for a better pathway to the higher levels of licence? And I bet you would see MORE people climb the ranks of hamdom as they would allready have a call and they would just have to test to advance? Then you could see greater oppertunity for the GOOD hams to elmer to the new radio enthuisist as they learned to have good opperating practices.

SO say entry level 11 meter band (no test) BUT hams who wanted to would not need to use a differant radio to use 11 meters just fallow the power requirements of the band they were on ? Not any differant than they do now with the other bands?

I don't know maby I'm useing a bit to much common sence here but we have all got to accept that 11meter is just as much a hobby service as any of the other bands, and like it or not the vast majority of hams DID start there so why not have it as a sanctioned testing grounds for folks who would like to see if radio is for them ?

And I think you would find that the wild 11 meter band would settle down a whole lot in the process.

Just a thought that came to me as I was reading


Chuck

:thumbdown:

 

[KD5KFL]

Let's try an analogy...

CB is one of those neighborhoods. The kind where, if you ain't from here you ought'nt a come here. The kind where they tell you "We don't call no cops around here, we solve our own problems in the neighborhood". The kind of neighborhood where problems never get solved. The kind where the kids are jumping up and down on your car hood and spraying graffiti on your possessions while their parents are unhooking the trailer. Yes, I have seen precisely this behavior.

Amateur radio is a gated community. The kind where some fat ugly woman yells at you "We don't want your kind around here" when you pull your brand new truck into the driveway to turn around and go the other way. Yes, I have seen precisely this behavior.

The people who splatter their obscene nonsense into the ham bands, or invade the ham bands intentionally, are like the family of pigs in this town who dump their trash over the fence into a gated community. Yes, I have seen precisely this behavior.

People with the attitudes and behaviors that make CB such a wonderful place obviously exist. The CB bands give them a place to be where the rest of us don't have to go. Works for me.

Hams worked to get into their gated community. They chose a higher standard, and don't want the neighborhood to go to seed. Who can blame them for trying to keep the neighborhood clean?

 

[74IN]

The kind where some fat ugly woman yells at you "We don't want your kind around here" when you pull your brand new truck into the driveway to turn around and go the other way.

Not exactly teh kind of folks I hope to encounter. I hate elitists.

 

[SR385]

Not exactly teh kind of folks I hope to encounter. I hate elitists.

Taking the body of traffic as a whole, there is a lot less noise level as far as content of traffic on the ham bands. It's not elitism as a majority at all, it's just people who prefer to be civil and courteous.

Are there horrible ops on ham? You bet. Are there a whole lot more spaces/modes/options to get away from them? You bet.

I was just on 160m the other night with a bunch of friends. We were there over an hour with no trouble, then out of nowhere a bunch of clowns who wouldn't ID just started cursing us out and throwing deliberate interference on us. We stayed a good half hour without saying anything to them as we were all so close it didn't even matter. Total CB'er behavior, pretty much exactly what you hear on the local CB channels in NJ. So there are morons on both CB and ham. At least with ham you have many options to get away from them.

I started out with 11m years ago, spent thousands of hours on the air. Locally it has deteriorated to nothing but cursing and name calling, it's not at all what it was in the late 80's here. I'm glad I got my ticket back in April as had I just gone out and got another export radio, there would be nearly nobody to talk to around here.

If you want to be a civil operator and make friends from all walks of life with the common bond of radio, by all means get your ticket. Radio in general is what you make of it. If you have nothing to really say and just want to play around making noise with the locals, CB is perfect. If you want to talk about most anything you can imagine and maybe even learn a bit about radio, by all means, ham is the way to go.

The main purpose to licensing as I see it is the accountability. It greatly reduces the ability for people to hide behind deliberate interference. If they drop the licensing requirement any lower or entirely, it would destroy the community. The slight barrier to entry keeps the service for those who have at least some respect for it, those who truly want to be there for the right reasons.

 

[Sonwatcher]

That's a good perspective 385.