WHERE DO I PICK THAT UP . HOME DEPOT ? WHAT DO PEOPLE USE THAT FOR? WOULD THAT BE A BONDING AGENT BETWEEN ROD AND GROUND ?Ive knew people that used that and better yet a form of copper sulphate years ago which is a NO NO!! Dangerous stuff to be putting in the ground and a problem if caught doing it
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INSTALLING GROUND RODS INSIDE BASEMENTS
- Thread starter sanman
- Start date
I HEARD PEOPLE USE KOSHER SALT FOR BETTER PURPOSES. OR I GUESS USING A GARDEN HOSE. I LIVE IN NEW YORK CITY AND ITS BEEN VERY DRY LATELY (UNUSUAL) BUT A CERTAIN DEPTH DOWN ISN'T IT ALWAYS MOIST ?Ive knew people that used that and better yet a form of copper sulphate years ago which is a NO NO!! Dangerous stuff to be putting in the ground and a problem if caught doing it
There is so much wrong with that I just don't know where to start. :headbang
First of a packrat; no one is picking on you.
Least of all - me.
Captain K; lemme start this off.
Perhaps you can fill in what I leave out.
Lightning isn't attracted to antennas. Not necessarily. Lightning is attracted to the strongest ground field that it senses; the path of least resistance. A ground field is an area - a patch of ground - perhaps less than a 1/8 to 1/4 mile wide where the the opposite charge of the Earth actually becomes concentrated. You will know if you are in a ground field. The hairs on your arms, back, and head will begin to stand on end. Literally. That is really the only warning you get; a strike is imminent. If you have ever been in/near a lightning storm, you will know that you are in a ground field when this happens. Ground fields are also random events; they can shift from one spot to another quickly - without lightning even being discharged. Sometimes you don't even notice the hair rising up before a strike happens too.
Was in Elgin, NE spotting severe storms (volunteer for the NWS eSpotter program) when a lightning bolt crashed down less than 5 yards from my vehicle. Had the best front row seat view - if you can imagine that. I had a 10m antenna, a 2m antenna, and a cell phone antenna on my vehicle at the time too. Why wasn't I struck? Because I was not in the ground field. I was the tallest object for 1/2 mile - in any direction. But it struck the ground instead. Close; but no cigar.
Not saying an antenna cannot become a lightning path. Sure they can. So long as your house is in a ground field - absolutely. So, let's say that you have an antenna up on the roof and there is a ground field present. The hairs on the back of your neck and arms are beginning to stand right up. All of a sudden >CRASH<; your station is hit by lightning. Fortunately, you were in the other room eating Cheetos at that moment. Unfortunately, you walk into the radio room and everything that was hooked up to the antenna is smoldering. Toasted to a delicate crunch, just like your Cheetos. Could this have been avoided? Yes and no. Had the lightning had a low resistance path OUTSIDE the building with a ground system that was properly prepared, you might have been able to salvage most (if not all) of your gear. Perhaps even avoid the fire that happened on the roof when the ungrounded antenna became the main path of the lighting too.
Captain K; over to you . . .
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I have the base of the P500, base of the push up pole, and all the equipment in the shack grounded to a rod I sank by hand, (using the water in the hole trick, which is another story), I did notice that bonding reduced the rf in the computer speakers! When we have storms in the area I disconnect the 6 gauge wire coming to the shack and unplug everything! When it's gets dry around the ground rod I just set the end of the garden hose right next to the rod and have it drip real slow. I do get nervous when the popcorn storms kick up here in Oklahoma and I still have all the goodies plugged in.:headbang
would 4 gauge stranded wire work for grounding the shack and antenna ? does it have to be solid gauge?
Umm....well.....errrr.........yeah. What you said is not really wrong but it leaves a bit out too. Lightning is attracted to the point of strongest electrical charge. That electrical charge will attempt to "bleed off" to the charged clouds and in doing so will follow an object of height to get closer. After all lightning is lazy and wants to take the path of least effort.(least resistance) What you said about a "ground filed" is true and that charge will flow up a tower, tree, building or whatever is in that field. If the charge is strong enough a strike will occur. This charge will flow over even a high resistance as it flows relatively slow as compared to the time it takes for a strike to occur. It the object does not have a low resistance path to ground it must dissipate all the power of a strike itself which is what causes the damage to the house roof or splits the tree. If there is a low resistance path like a heavy conductor connected to ground then the bulk of the power of the strike will follow that conductor to ground where the earth can safely dissipate it. In the case of a tower, it is the low resistance path however it must be connected to ground in order for the strike energy to be dissipated safely. As for grounds attracting lightning, bunk, BS, bullshit, whatever you want to call it but it is simply untrue. Grounds form a safe path for the lightning that was going to hit anyway.
Now,guess what happens when the only path to ground from your antenna is your coax cable? Where does all the strike energy go? Answer: Any where it wants to and not necessarily where YOU want it too. If the lowest resistance path to ground is down the coax shield to your radio then to the power supply running it via the negative power lead, then to the wall socket the power supply is plugged into and finally through the walls of the house to the main electrical service entrance then that is what it will do. I prefer to give it a much lower resistance path to ground and bypass all that stuff and do without the damage.
Minimum 6 gauge wire according to the NEC. Idealy it should be solid as stranded wire has more inductance (bad thing) and flat copper strap (not braid) is even better.
Well,
40 years in radio and not one problem.
PR
No doubt.the odds against beingstruck by lightning are immensely high. The 75 year old barn across the road has never been hit either but the horse barn a mile away was struck and burned to the ground. Not being struck does not mean you have done things right. It simply mens you are in the majority of people. If you should ever get hit you will wish you had ground. One house I knowhad an A99 with no ground. Nearly $30,000 laterhe was able to move back in. The cupboards were blown off the wall (the coax ran behind them) and the house was set on fire. Iwould rather take my chances with a good ground system than without.
Ditto with C.K. Ide also rather lure or give that voltage a short sure path to ground if that doesnt help them my happiness was just not meant to be I also have extra Coax looped in 3-4 foot circles or loops because lightning wants the shortest straight path to ground and will alot of times blow out in a loop of coax to ground but coax is cheaper than all my radio gear my families lives and my house.
Again if it still gets in if I forget to also disconnect then my happiness was just not meant to be.
I also have extra Coax looped in 3-4 foot circles or loops because lightning wants the shortest straight path to ground and will alot of times blow out in a loop of coax to ground but coax is cheaper than all my radio gear my families lives and my house.Again if it still gets in if I forget to also disconnect then my happiness was just not meant to be.
Just a note about those coax loops. In the eventof a nearby strike they can act like transformer windings and actually inducea voltage spike into your cable. They are really a double edged sword.
CK,
I highly respect your opinion, but I am going to play devils advocate here.
Convince me.
After 40 years( many in FLA, the lightening capitol of the world) with NO problems, what am I doing wrong?
Every house and barn in the country used to have lightening rods. most do not now. Has there been a catastorphic increase in the number of houses burned due to lightening strikes since this phenomenon?
ARRL even states that if you can not run a short, direct ground, dont run one at all. (Do not put a shack on an upper floor.) Long grounds can cause more problems than they solve. So if no ground is better than a long ground path, why is a ground path needed at all??? (Hint: It was much more important years ago with the old tube equipment that used to bite its owners pretty regularly)
Also, are we talking rf ground or safety ground?
I have an electrical background and do understand these things, but I also understand the laws of physics state that an ungrounded item will not conduct electrical energy. It needs a complete path, so why give it a complete path? Most of the electrical codes are there to keep morons who stick their fonger into electrical sockets and rewire the christmas tree lights incorrectly safe from themselves. How many homes are still out there with two wire systems? (MANY MANY of them) Are the occupants dying with alarming regularity because of this? NO!
Anyway, have fun.op:
PR
I highly respect your opinion, but I am going to play devils advocate here.
Convince me.
After 40 years( many in FLA, the lightening capitol of the world) with NO problems, what am I doing wrong?
Every house and barn in the country used to have lightening rods. most do not now. Has there been a catastorphic increase in the number of houses burned due to lightening strikes since this phenomenon?
ARRL even states that if you can not run a short, direct ground, dont run one at all. (Do not put a shack on an upper floor.) Long grounds can cause more problems than they solve. So if no ground is better than a long ground path, why is a ground path needed at all??? (Hint: It was much more important years ago with the old tube equipment that used to bite its owners pretty regularly)
Also, are we talking rf ground or safety ground?
I have an electrical background and do understand these things, but I also understand the laws of physics state that an ungrounded item will not conduct electrical energy. It needs a complete path, so why give it a complete path? Most of the electrical codes are there to keep morons who stick their fonger into electrical sockets and rewire the christmas tree lights incorrectly safe from themselves. How many homes are still out there with two wire systems? (MANY MANY of them) Are the occupants dying with alarming regularity because of this? NO!
Anyway, have fun.
op:PR