Is CB radio suffering from the loudness wars?

[BBB]

Several operators around here, SE PA / South Jersey, have a HiFi wide banded broadcast studio loudness that is absolutely fantastic to listen to through my big JBL studio monitor speaker...just saying, there is another loudness trend and it's not all bad.

 

[bassman21]

Here is the amp I ran in the late 90s built by a guy that went by Sonny just outside the Houston area. It was 2 2890s driving 4 2879s. Great preforming amp, but caused a lot of interference. A little different than the Dave Made designs. Sorry for the poor quality, I sold this amp back in 2002 and took this pic with an old digital camera.

 

[StrangeBrew]

The point is you can only turn the knob up on your stereo to a point.
If you need it any louder, you'll need an amp.

That reply was intended to be taken with a bit of humor.

I do agree that it's better to have more capability than you need than it is to try and do it by pushing an amp that's not quite capable.

 

[hotpepper]

I use an sdr and have the luxury of seeing the "loud" stations on a panadapter and waterfall. There's some pretty nasty stuff on the 11 meter band. Some disappointing signals on the HF bands too.

Most of the big loud signals are several channels wide. They are so loud it hurts your ears at close range but is piss weak out in the distance.

They worship the watt meter and there's no hope for them.

Yes, I use an Anan SDR and I see it too. And these are not local splatter stations either. They are via skip from stations 3800-7000+ miles away from me, I'm out in the West Pacific. Many are pretty knarly looking on the waterfall, multiple channel-wide splatter, distorted audio and operators seemingly screaming into the mic. All knobs to the right lol.

That said, there are a few clean sounding and looking stations out there, but most are overdriven and the term "Loud" is used as a signal strength report.

I also see alot of stations signals have this diagonal looking "wave" looking pattern on the waterfall.. not sure what that is, but its usually the splatter-stations that show this very noticable.

So Yes, there sure is a "Loudness War" out there. hehe

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

Yes, I use an Anan SDR and I see it too. And these are not local splatter stations either. They are via skip from stations 3800-7000+ miles away from me, I'm out in the West Pacific. Many are pretty knarly looking on the waterfall, multiple channel-wide splatter, distorted audio and operators seemingly screaming into the mic. All knobs to the right lol.

That said, there are a few clean sounding and looking stations out there, but most are overdriven and the term "Loud" is used as a signal strength report.

I also see alot of stations signals have this diagonal looking "wave" looking pattern on the waterfall.. not sure what that is, but its usually the splatter-stations that show this very noticable.

So Yes, there sure is a "Loudness War" out there. hehe

Exactly. For some reason loudness seems to be equated with quality and in actual fact it is usually quite the opposite. Gone are the days when people understood the reason for using AGC much less using it properly. Back in the late 70's there were a LOT of really good sounding stations running 100% stock. Nobody was concerned about being LOUDER than his neighbor. Today it's all about being LOUDER and the hell with IMD or other splatter because it does not affect the person transmitting that crap and after all today it's all about "ME" and the ego boost of being louder. I run a clean station and have participated in many round tables usually on 80m where the participants are either current or former/retired broadcast engineers and what brings a smile to my face is when I get unsolicited reports of wonderful audio from people that actually know what good audio is. My former boss was one of those participants and had glowing reports for me having known what my natural voice sounded like. That's all the compliments I need to make me feel good about my station. Being loud for the sake of being loud means nothing to me.

 

[wavrider]

Exactly. For some reason loudness seems to be equated with quality and in actual fact it is usually quite the opposite. Gone are the days when people understood the reason for using AGC much less using it properly. Back in the late 70's there were a LOT of really good sounding stations running 100% stock. Nobody was concerned about being LOUDER than his neighbor. Today it's all about being LOUDER and the hell with IMD or other splatter because it does not affect the person transmitting that crap and after all today it's all about "ME" and the ego boost of being louder. I run a clean station and have participated in many round tables usually on 80m where the participants are either current or former/retired broadcast engineers and what brings a smile to my face is when I get unsolicited reports of wonderful audio from people that actually know what good audio is. My former boss was one of those participants and had glowing reports for me having known what my natural voice sounded like. That's all the compliments I need to make me feel good about my station. Being loud for the sake of being loud means nothing to me.

Wouldn't happen to be Kenwood audio?

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

Wouldn't happen to be Kenwood audio?

A well maintained TS-820S with an MC-50 microphone for SSB. For AM an old but well maintained Heath DX-60B with the audio chain electrolytic caps replaced with new equivalents and series disc ceramics doubled in value. The Sennheisser MD-421 microphone helps too.

 

[dave457]

A CRL audio chain will get you loud, clean and clear audio

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

A CRL audio chain will get you loud, clean and clear audio

CRL as in Circuit Research Labs ? It should. It's professional broadcast gear developed by Ron Jones, a broadcast engineer from Arizona I believe. CRL eventually purchased Orban which is another outstanding line of audio processors. My point is that you can achieve outstanding audio without a lot of outboard processing gear. there are times a little works better than a lot. Having worked in broadcasting for a couple decades, sometimes a little processing sounds better than a lot unless the owner/general manager wants to engage in a loudness war with the other stations in the market.

 

[Global mobile]

CRL as in Circuit Research Labs ? It should. It's professional broadcast gear developed by Ron Jones, a broadcast engineer from Arizona I believe. CRL eventually purchased Orban which is another outstanding line of audio processors. My point is that you can achieve outstanding audio without a lot of outboard processing gear. there are times a little works better than a lot. Having worked in broadcasting for a couple decades, sometimes a little processing sounds better than a lot unless the owner/general manager wants to engage in a loudness war with the other stations in the market.

Long live the Opti-Mod. In all my years of being in radio I could never get enough of watching the gain reduction needles dance

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

Long live the Opti-Mod. In all my years of being in radio I could never get enough of watching the gain reduction needles dance

We used to run Optimods on our AM and FM transmitters. When properly set up they were awesome. Just had to keep the front panels locked and hide the keys from the program directors however.

 

[StrangeBrew]

It's not what you run but how you run it, one of the best sounding locals around here back in the day ran a bone stock Comstat 25a with a turner +2.

 

[dave457]

CRL as in Circuit Research Labs ? It should. It's professional broadcast gear developed by Ron Jones, a broadcast engineer from Arizona I believe. CRL eventually purchased Orban which is another outstanding line of audio processors. My point is that you can achieve outstanding audio without a lot of outboard processing gear. there are times a little works better than a lot. Having worked in broadcasting for a couple decades, sometimes a little processing sounds better than a lot unless the owner/general manager wants to engage in a loudness war with the other stations in the market.

Yes, a simple 3 processor setup sounds great app400>sep400a>pmc450

 

[Sonar]

Years ago I used to complain about the idiots on the radio, now I just wish more people were on the radio. Dead air around here, I wouldn't mind a couple of loud idiots on the air.

As for DX - when it does go I never have a problem finding people to talk to on SSB. 38 can be a bit of a pile up but even so I find no problem getting through, even without turning on the amp. I actually try to avoid using power on 38 because then I end up with 50 people yelling at me at the same time

Most of the loud yahoos stay on 6, 11, 26, and 28. Stay on SSB and you shouldn't have issues.

I too prefer SSB. I wish that people would learn what I call the one channel up - down rule. When 38 LSb is open It's usually a mess. Why people don't utalize 37 and 39 when 38 gets crazy is beyond me. When 38 LSb is nutz I drop down or up one and wait for someone who's thinking like me. A qso is actually possible. Most on 38 LSb have a qso that's basically a quick contact. If I'm correct there's no contest going on. I hope those reading this begin utalizing 36, 37, 39 and 40. It's really cool. Everyone on 38 LSb just begin yelling at the strongest station. A wast imo. And funny at the same time. One guy's signal coming in from Barbados (122 or witch doctor) people in the 50 US states all screaming at two stations just to make that one contact. I'd rather spend the usual hour I use my station when I do turn it on and hang on 37 or 39 in order to have a single 15 minute qso then make 10 or 20 contacts that last 15 seconds. As far as AM I don't do much even when conditions are good but when I do i never turn my channel selector to 6. Channels 28, 26, 21 etc etc have operator's that while not all great sounding definitely have a better quality of sounding station's/operators. Good thread. Thanks. 73

 

[222DBFL]

When the DX is rolling hard and you have a crap load of people that call your name when you cal CQ, I tend to just just give a quick wave and move on to the next guy. But if I want to talk to someone I'll actually move to either 27.400 or 27.405 (CH40). Quiet there most of the time. For me it just depends on the person/s, and how much DX is going. Don't like to tie up any of the freqs too long anyways. JMHO's. Have a good one and maybe we will talk one day Sonar. Or may have already!! Anyhow. Good day!