Is Mike delusional?

[loosecannon]

RPC,

The impression i got from watching Mike's video is that the actual driver circuit characteristics were to blame for the sudden jump above S9+10.

It's just my opinion, but i would agree with him. Adjusting the meter for the specs in the service manual wouldn't change this effect, it would just change the spot on the meter that the "jump" happens, and not by much at all.

I don't know much about ASQ but in a normal squelch circuit alignment, the level used is 1000uV, so if you are using 50uV for the S meter, and 500uV for the squelch, then their relationship is the same, and again, we are only talking about a 1 S unit difference.

The RF gain is not calibrated with the S meter, so its function would not be affected.

as far as the S meter calibration having anything to do with whether or not your RF front end blows up at the truck stop, if i understood you correctly, that setting won't change at what point the radio blows up.
again, 1 S unit difference.
LC

 

[unit_399]

This is the definition of S9 reference values, and are in line with the charts posted by Unit 194 earlier:
"Today two reference values exist: for frequencies below 30 MHz, S9 is defined as a voltage of 50 μV over 50 Ω at the receiver antenna connector; for frequencies above 30 MHz, S9 is defined as a voltage of 5 μV over 50 Ω at the receiver antenna connector. This refers to an unmodulated carrier signal (N0N) that uses almost no bandwidth; in case of real signals using a given bandwidth, this definition may not be enough since a smaller receiver bandwidth allows a weaker minimum detectable signal, but S-points are still a good tool for comparing received signals. Older receivers were calibrated using the old standard that defined S9 as a voltage of 100 μV instead of 50 μV over 50 Ω at the receiver antenna connector."

However, I have to agree with the RABBI. Whenever you are aligning a radio, the manufacturer's specified procedures should be used. In the case of S-meter alignment, always using 50uv over 50 ohms at the receiver antenna connector may not align the meter properly due to differences in the metering circuits. If Mike says that a 50 uv signal should always be used to cal a meter, then he is wrong.

- 399

 

[rabbiporkchop]

I'm surprised mark can't get your meter dialed in for you. Seemed like he is good at making meters behave

My stuff works just fine since Mark takes the manufacturers service manual seriously unlike Mike who randomly chooses numbers that don't apply that particular piece of equipment without any regard for the service manual. Mike is the one that seems to be having problems with weak signals hitting him at 20 over scratching his head wondering why the meter is inaccurate after he misaligned the meter deliberately.
I'm just trying to help Mike figure out one of his problems he describes in his own video as he blames the manufacturer for being wrong instead of accepting responsibility for not following the service manual alignment procedure.

 

[rabbiporkchop]

I'm surprised mark can't get your meter dialed in for you. Seemed like he is good at making meters behave

Mike is also good at making meters behave when he follows the service manual alignment procedure.

 

[rabbiporkchop]

RPC,

The impression i got from watching Mike's video is that the actual driver circuit characteristics were to blame for the sudden jump above S9+10.

It's just my opinion, but i would agree with him. Adjusting the meter for the specs in the service manual wouldn't change this effect, it would just change the spot on the meter that the "jump" happens, and not by much at all.

I don't know much about ASQ but in a normal squelch circuit alignment, the level used is 1000uV, so if you are using 50uV for the S meter, and 500uV for the squelch, then their relationship is the same, and again, we are only talking about a 1 S unit difference.

The RF gain is not calibrated with the S meter, so its function would not be affected.

as far as the S meter calibration having anything to do with whether or not your RF front end blows up at the truck stop, if i understood you correctly, that setting won't change at what point the radio blows up.
again, 1 S unit difference.
LC

Knowing when to turn the radio off or turn down the rf gain should help us prevent a blown front end. If a guy 20 miles away is making the meter swing to s9, or if the meter spends most of it's time in the red, it might cause us to keep turning the rig off out of concern for proximity to strong stations, even when that concern is unfounded.

 

[LeapFrog]

...unlike Mike who randomly chooses numbers that don't apply that particular piece of equipment without any regard for the service manual.

I wouldn't exactly call an international standard, "random";
you said it yourself.. "you cannot apply those standards to inferior equipment".

I find it funny, your guy almost exclusively deals with exports, the other guy not so much..
It is almost like each side has a particular kind of radio they are good at, only Mike works on far more types of equipment, I'd say his standard works most times, just not on your quasi-digital RCI/Stryker radio with "modern" and more restrictive (in response) metering circuit. Maybe they built the metering circuit to behave with the (possibly wrong) numbers in the manual, instead of an international standard.

I won't speculate on why, but I have a feeling it is not because the engineer(s) wanted to meet a standard. Apparently, final build Q/C can be sh$t if you don't have a three letter agency setting a standard and checking the performance or quality of your product. "consistency"
73

 

[Unit 194]

S-9 signal level again..... Why there is so much confusion and why there shouldn't be.

 

[2RT307]

CB Radio Soap Opera. Tune in 10 years from now, and the subject will be the same...

Me? I'm changing the channel.

73,
Brett

 

[dave457]

If your just trying to help Mike, why don't you just email him or post on his YouTube ch.

 

[LeapFrog]

S-9 signal level again..... Why there is so much confusion and why there shouldn't be.

Mike did a great job demonstrating the inconsistency among various manuals and manufacturers.

He covered "load condition", or equipment configuration (50 Ohm terminated, or not);
I can appreciate his explanation of the R.1 technical recommendation, and its use!

Awesome stuff, if most equipment can be calibrated against this standard set in 1981, or the S-meter can be made to behave with it, we can work DX and give accurate signal reports, with our CB sets.

(External, removable, calibrated analog S-Meter mod for the Stryker SR-955HPC, possibly incoming. j/k.)

Best Regards

 

[W2EKG]

S9 is totally subjective.

 

[rabbiporkchop]

it looks like he partially came to his senses although he still seems to be confused about whether or not a 50 ohm load should be used in the alignment procedure unless specifically stated in the service manual which should be an assumption. It still appears he's trying to justify applying the standard to equipment that was never designed to meet that standard though.

 

[jon666]

Mark agrees with the factory service manual procedure.
Since you think that procedure is invalid, asking Mark why you think the service manual is wrong, and why Mike is right wouldn't get me very far. It seemed more logical to ask you how you formulated your opinion on why the service manual is wrong and Mike's magic number is right.

here we go again. stop trolling and nitpicking on fricken everything. go kiss marks ass.mike is a great repair man. he dont have time to jump on here to defend himself. so just stop being a troll

Knowing when to turn the radio off or turn down the rf gain should help us prevent a blown front end. If a guy 20 miles away is making the meter swing to s9, or if the meter spends most of it's time in the red, it might cause us to keep turning the rig off out of concern for proximity to strong stations, even when that concern is unfounded.

here we go again. im not getting involved . why i have better things to do.
so troll away

it looks like he partially came to his senses although he still seems to be confused about whether or not a 50 ohm load should be used in the alignment procedure unless specifically stated in the service manual which should be an assumption.

 

[W2EKG]

I wonder how snake radio customs calibrates S9?

 

[LeapFrog]

S9 is totally subjective.

That is like saying modern chemistry is subjective, but no that'd be alchemy.
I agree that the manufacturer can have the meter show "S-9" how/whenever they want.

Isn't everything subjective to a certain degree, even our interpretation of objective data? What we consider "fact" is merely that which a group have agreed upon, and formed a consensus, then ultimately a measurement standard for quantitative analysis; to prove "something is" or measures up, provable to the many as a fact, not a feeling one experiences by themselves.

Everything that is now considered a fact, was once open to interpretation; it wasn't until enough people agreed (together) that we appreciate "something" to exist as a fact.

One "fact" remains..
I see a lot of propaganda from one side of the "debate", and more objective truth from the other side. I have made up my mind and I know where I stand.

Propaganda is information that is not objective and is used primarily to influence an audience and further an agenda, often by presenting facts selectively to encourage a particular synthesis or perception, or using loaded language to produce an emotional rather than a rational response to the information that is presented.

In the twentieth century, the term propaganda has been associated with a manipulative approach...

"looks like he partially came to his senses", wow the arrogance is strong with you man; have a nice day.