• You can now help support WorldwideDX when you shop on Amazon at no additional cost to you! Simply follow this Shop on Amazon link first and a portion of any purchase is sent to WorldwideDX to help with site costs.
  • Click here to find out how to win free radios from Retevis!

J-pole 2 meter antenna question

Need2Know

KK4GMU - Ocala, FL
Jan 26, 2012
144
13
28
Ocala, FL
www.muccings.blogspot.com
This is a question I probably should have asked before I bought my current J-pole.

But here it is:

Is there any difference in reception or propagation in a 2 meter or 70 cm antenna that uses thin rod material such as that on an automobile antenna, vs. using a many times thicker, 1/2 inch diameter rod, everything else being equal, such as material, location, cable, etc?

The J-pole I have uses thin stainless steel rod. Most J-poles seem to use 1/2 inch diameter rods.
 

There can be some very slight differences in construction, but no significant differences in performance.
- 'Doc
 
Bandwidth

Although a resonant antenna has a purely resistive feed-point impedance at a particular frequency, many (if not most) applications require using an antenna over a range of frequencies. An antenna's bandwidth specifies the range of frequencies over which its performance does not suffer due to a poor impedance match. Also in the case of a Yagi-Uda array, the use of the antenna very far away from its design frequency reduces the antenna's directivity, thus reducing the usable bandwidth regardless of impedance matching.
Except for the latter concern, the resonant frequency of a resonant antenna can always be altered by adjusting a suitable matching network. To do this efficiently one would require remotely adjusting a matching network at the site of the antenna, since simply adjusting a matching network at the transmitter (or receiver) would leave the transmission line with a poor standing wave ratio.
Instead, it is often desired to have an antenna whose impedance does not vary so greatly over a certain bandwidth. It turns out that the amount of reactance seen at the terminals of a resonant antenna when the frequency is shifted, say, by 5%, depends very much on the diameter of the conductor used. A long thin wire used as a half-wave dipole (or quarter wave monopole) will have a reactance significantly greater than the resistive impedance it has at resonance, leading to a poor match and generally unacceptable performance. Making the element using a tube of a diameter perhaps 1/50 of its length, however, results in a reactance at this altered frequency which is not so great, and a much less serious mismatch which will only modestly damage the antenna's net performance. Thus rather thick tubes are typically used for the solid elements of such antennas, including Yagi-Uda arrays.
Rather than just using a thick tube, there are similar techniques used to the same effect such as replacing thin wire elements with cages to simulate a thicker element. This widens the bandwidth of the resonance. On the other hand, amateur radio antennas need to operate over several bands which are widely separated from each other. This can often be accomplished simply by connecting resonant elements for the different bands in parallel. Most of the transmitter's power will flow into the resonant element while the others present a high (reactive) impedance and draw little current from the same voltage. A popular solution uses so-called traps consisting of parallel resonant circuits which are strategically placed in breaks along each antenna element. When used at one particular frequency band the trap presents a very high impedance (parallel resonance) effectively truncating the element at that length, making it a proper resonant antenna. At a lower frequency the trap allows the full length of the element to be employed, albeit with a shifted resonant frequency due to the inclusion of the trap's net reactance at that lower frequency.

A prime example of this is the cage dipole for 80 meters. Using #12 AWG wire will produces about a 5% bandwidth for a 2:1 VSWR. Using multiple wires in parallel and terminated at the ends with a spacing around 0.02 wavelengths will increase the bandwidth to 13.4% or so for a 2:1 VSWR. An antenna using #12 wire will have about 18 KHz Bandwidth, whereas the wider spacing of multiple wires around a 0.02 wavelength spacer will have about 1824 KHz bandwidth for a 2:1 VSWR. The same principal applies to your 2 meter j-pole antenna. There will be a VSWR bandwidth increase between a 1/8” wire element and a ½” or ¾” tubing element. Cannot find a math equation for these, just practical examples from the ARRL Antenna Handbook.

73,
Mike
 
"...the resonant frequency of a resonant antenna can always be altered by adjusting a suitable matching network."
Not really, at least not with a 'matching network'. A 'loading network', yes. But that 'matching network' only deals with the impedance matching of that resonant antenna, not it's resonant frequency.
- 'Doc
 
Bandwidth

Although a resonant antenna has a purely resistive feed-point impedance at a particular frequency, many (if not most) applications require using an antenna over a range of frequencies. An antenna's bandwidth specifies the range of frequencies over which its performance does not suffer due to a poor impedance match. Also in the case of a Yagi-Uda array, the use of the antenna very far away from its design frequency reduces the antenna's directivity, thus reducing the usable bandwidth regardless of impedance matching.
Except for the latter concern, the resonant frequency of a resonant antenna can always be altered by adjusting a suitable matching network. To do this efficiently one would require remotely adjusting a matching network at the site of the antenna, since simply adjusting a matching network at the transmitter (or receiver) would leave the transmission line with a poor standing wave ratio.
Instead, it is often desired to have an antenna whose impedance does not vary so greatly over a certain bandwidth. It turns out that the amount of reactance seen at the terminals of a resonant antenna when the frequency is shifted, say, by 5%, depends very much on the diameter of the conductor used. A long thin wire used as a half-wave dipole (or quarter wave monopole) will have a reactance significantly greater than the resistive impedance it has at resonance, leading to a poor match and generally unacceptable performance. Making the element using a tube of a diameter perhaps 1/50 of its length, however, results in a reactance at this altered frequency which is not so great, and a much less serious mismatch which will only modestly damage the antenna's net performance. Thus rather thick tubes are typically used for the solid elements of such antennas, including Yagi-Uda arrays.
Rather than just using a thick tube, there are similar techniques used to the same effect such as replacing thin wire elements with cages to simulate a thicker element. This widens the bandwidth of the resonance. On the other hand, amateur radio antennas need to operate over several bands which are widely separated from each other. This can often be accomplished simply by connecting resonant elements for the different bands in parallel. Most of the transmitter's power will flow into the resonant element while the others present a high (reactive) impedance and draw little current from the same voltage. A popular solution uses so-called traps consisting of parallel resonant circuits which are strategically placed in breaks along each antenna element. When used at one particular frequency band the trap presents a very high impedance (parallel resonance) effectively truncating the element at that length, making it a proper resonant antenna. At a lower frequency the trap allows the full length of the element to be employed, albeit with a shifted resonant frequency due to the inclusion of the trap's net reactance at that lower frequency.

A prime example of this is the cage dipole for 80 meters. Using #12 AWG wire will produces about a 5% bandwidth for a 2:1 VSWR. Using multiple wires in parallel and terminated at the ends with a spacing around 0.02 wavelengths will increase the bandwidth to 13.4% or so for a 2:1 VSWR. An antenna using #12 wire will have about 18 KHz Bandwidth, whereas the wider spacing of multiple wires around a 0.02 wavelength spacer will have about 1824 KHz bandwidth for a 2:1 VSWR. The same principal applies to your 2 meter j-pole antenna. There will be a VSWR bandwidth increase between a 1/8” wire element and a ½” or ¾” tubing element. Cannot find a math equation for these, just practical examples from the ARRL Antenna Handbook.

73,
Mike

Thanks. How would all of this apply to a 2 band (2 meter/70 cm) J-pole design between thick and thin elements? Any "significant" and measurable differences - in layman's language and a conclusion of which is best for the average usser, pros and cons?
 
If you go to the extremes, large and small, then you -may- be able to hear some differences. In most cases, especially on the VHF/UHF bands, it isn't going to be a world shattering kind of difference. There can and probably will be some differences in usable bandwidth, but the difference isn't too 'significant'. The 'normal' range of conductor size for VHF/UHF antennas is probably something like 1/8" to maybe 1". As the size get's larger the other physical aspects of mounting the thing get larger too. Somewhere in there is a practical limit for each particular set of circumstances. The over all differences just aren't gonna make a big difference. Use whatever strikes you as the 'best'.
- 'Doc
 

dxChat
Help Users
  • No one is chatting at the moment.
  • dxBot:
    Greg T has left the room.
  • @ BJ radionut:
    EVAN/Crawdad :love: ...runna pile-up on 6m SSB(y) W4AXW in the air
    +1
  • @ Crawdad:
    One of the few times my tiny station gets heard on 6m!:D
  • @ Galanary:
    anyone out here familiar with the Icom IC-7300 mods