Later versions of the bias-regulator diodes will look like that, a glass diode glued to the mount plate.
Does the same job.
73
Does the same job.
73
-
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Looking for an RF coil for Galaxy DX 2527 (RCI 2950)
- Thread starter PoDuck
- Start date
An early MV-1Y
MV-1Y has changed, and so nowadays they simply epoxy a diode and leave it at that...
Can you see the "Notches" in the PCB cutout of the 2166? Those notches help you mount the leads of that Varistor so you didn't tie them accidently with the Base lead...
But in earlier days - this type of flush mount was seen a lot - early 80's.
And in many instances. they don't even epoxy a diode - they solder it in place bare bones, just under the Final...
I've never been a big fan of this - but it does work.
The epoxy is an electrical insulator - not the best at heat transfer...
And when you mount the diode separately - the install is easier - you remove and drop in a new part - no extra fiddling with spacer hardware - just load, solder and go - even if the diode went bad, the install is easier when the Diode is mounted as a separate part and you don't have to twist, bend or otherwise pull and SNAP off a leg or both...
:+> Andy <+:
MV-1Y has changed, and so nowadays they simply epoxy a diode and leave it at that...
Can you see the "Notches" in the PCB cutout of the 2166? Those notches help you mount the leads of that Varistor so you didn't tie them accidently with the Base lead...
But in earlier days - this type of flush mount was seen a lot - early 80's.
And in many instances. they don't even epoxy a diode - they solder it in place bare bones, just under the Final...
I've never been a big fan of this - but it does work.
The epoxy is an electrical insulator - not the best at heat transfer...
And when you mount the diode separately - the install is easier - you remove and drop in a new part - no extra fiddling with spacer hardware - just load, solder and go - even if the diode went bad, the install is easier when the Diode is mounted as a separate part and you don't have to twist, bend or otherwise pull and SNAP off a leg or both...
:+> Andy <+:
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And on a secondary note:
No one mentions this anymore so I will...
Remember the mA reading you take, the recommended?
I would take a moment of time and research - investigate - the bias readings you make on the Test Point jumpers.
Do this and save yourself some money in replacement Bi-polars later.
You might want to subtract some numbers off of those readings and use those NEW LOWER numbers to set them - it depends on several factors as to the WHY I suggest that - read on if you insist.
Use a dummy load...
Remove test jumper...install the mA meter for taking readings...
If you have these in an SSB radio - turn on the radio and check the mA readings ...set them to 60mA OR LESS
Remove the meter - install the jumper...
In to a dummy load, key up the radio in AM or FM mode for 2 minutes...
Remove the Jumper - install the meter - do this quickly as possible...
Retake your readings...
Note those readings - and realize that as the Final and Driver heat up, they "see" more current to use so their mA readings will change and in some cases rise considerably - to a point that you really need to turn the mA Bias trim down even further...
Change, tweak, or adjust as needed - and more times than not - the readings will show the trim settings are a bit too high and you need to remember that reading change, in rate as well as in amount. Because as things heat up - those readings do too (go up) and it's important that you compensate for that. All of this free advice is to aid you in keeping a customer happy.
Why this step?
Profile - develop a profile of which part / section heats up and DRAINS more current thru it when heated - because you may have to go back someday and tweak that section - Driver or Final - to correct a thermal issue.
Whether its:
STOP! Read The Instructions First! Your satisfaction is important to us. If you are having problems - Call 1-800-xxx-YYYZ and tell us what you need. Do Not Return Product To The Store!
Ignorance is Bliss - but is 99% of the Law - because if the Manufacturer doesn't realize something's wrong in the box, how are they ever going to be able to make it right?
I've had customers return radios back in the box - with cut leads and blown fuses and scratches everywhere on the case - I have to eat a cost on that - but I too have called those 1-800 numbers to get this POS off my desk and back to the place it came from so they could yell at the Quality control staff - if any...
Back to the Thermal issue...
Remember - some manufactures do not always say what the temperature readings needed to be or the length time into the testing on the bench needs to be taken - before it's considered "warmed up and stable" enough to be tested. You need to skip that and re-create the real world stuff - the environment it will be used in.
AC is nice on a hot day, but does little comfort when it (radio) and the customer are in a position of embarrassment due to your failure to provide that safety margin. Whether it's the hottest day of the year outside or the coldest on record - that radio was purchased with a level of trust - don't blow it by spending time on scruples and back-biting - fix what's wrong for the customers sake - even if it means having to violate the OEM rules and modify the radio to suit the environment it's going into.
So there is a reason for why I do what I do and show how I do it - for the reasons that your life may depend on it someday - especially in extreme weather conditions and you have to travel when it's not recommended - that radio may be the only thing that still works when other devices fail. Not because of you, but because of the environment took out the support towers and power lines feeding them, they're gone.
Sometimes the shine you have gets tarnished, but with a little more effort - the shine can be returned. And Shine is a relative term - for it is not always that, things that glitter are not always gold.
If you're read this far - Congratulate yourself - because instead of having to wade thru 30 years of times past to locate what you need, you got this far from a guy whom' has done things and made the mistakes through the past 30 years, so you don't have to. You've just saved yourself 30 years of time by taking this research to heart.
:+> Andy <+:
No one mentions this anymore so I will...
Remember the mA reading you take, the recommended?
I would take a moment of time and research - investigate - the bias readings you make on the Test Point jumpers.
Do this and save yourself some money in replacement Bi-polars later.
You might want to subtract some numbers off of those readings and use those NEW LOWER numbers to set them - it depends on several factors as to the WHY I suggest that - read on if you insist.
(e.g. - if they say 70mA - use 45mA (about 1/2 rated) when you see 50mA use 25mA - if you can no longer replace the Bipolars with new stock ones, think 2/3rds to 3/4 LESS than rated...especially if it's old aged and hasn't been recapped in a while)
Use a dummy load...
Remove test jumper...install the mA meter for taking readings...
If you have these in an SSB radio - turn on the radio and check the mA readings ...set them to 60mA OR LESS
Remove the meter - install the jumper...
In to a dummy load, key up the radio in AM or FM mode for 2 minutes...
Remove the Jumper - install the meter - do this quickly as possible...
Retake your readings...
Note those readings - and realize that as the Final and Driver heat up, they "see" more current to use so their mA readings will change and in some cases rise considerably - to a point that you really need to turn the mA Bias trim down even further...
Change, tweak, or adjust as needed - and more times than not - the readings will show the trim settings are a bit too high and you need to remember that reading change, in rate as well as in amount. Because as things heat up - those readings do too (go up) and it's important that you compensate for that. All of this free advice is to aid you in keeping a customer happy.
Why this step?
Profile - develop a profile of which part / section heats up and DRAINS more current thru it when heated - because you may have to go back someday and tweak that section - Driver or Final - to correct a thermal issue.
Whether its:
Assembly - Hardware is not seated properly, bent flange, Heat sink panel not flat or clean, even - too much heat sink goo and now you have a gap that prevents the quicker transfer of heat from the part to the panel...
Components - Parts age, poor soldering heat stresses components and traces. Environment affects it too - moisture (humidity) dusty (dirt contamination) and temperature in the mobile installs can shorten the life expectancy of a radio.
Previous Repairs - Yes, sadly enough you may have to go back in and fix work done before. This reason alone can be the result of why the radio is in the shop in the first place. Part suppliers change, go out of business and original OEM are no longer available -you or they did what they could now you have to take the ball and run with it.
So while people may scrutinize work - if you keep your ducks in a row - your work won't show back up on your desk, the bosses' desk or on youtube to be ridiculed and scoffed at...Because you did the best you could - now if it burned up and they have to undo what was done and re-do it - let's hope all those hoops you went thru are the steps you took to do the job right.Components - Parts age, poor soldering heat stresses components and traces. Environment affects it too - moisture (humidity) dusty (dirt contamination) and temperature in the mobile installs can shorten the life expectancy of a radio.
Previous Repairs - Yes, sadly enough you may have to go back in and fix work done before. This reason alone can be the result of why the radio is in the shop in the first place. Part suppliers change, go out of business and original OEM are no longer available -you or they did what they could now you have to take the ball and run with it.
I get "Dinged" everyday by those that have taken my "placard" of doing research seriously, and testing me - now I get to let you in on some secrets to why I get treated this way...
There are reasons for doing what I do - it's not always easy to describe the Why - because it's experience that has taught me these things - you don't have 30 years to wade thru all those "Teaching moments" I've had - I'm just trying to give you some "Cliff Notes" about them.
Then there will be times they will do it to themselves - we are in a teaching moment here. This shows us we're human. How some will react to a simple failure is one thing, and a lot of people these days are blaming assembly as the main problem with failures - referring to the "Customer is always right" rule. Which means they - the shop boss - is convincing the customer that they know what is best and tell them to Ignore the warning signs in, on and around the sides of the box that says...There are reasons for doing what I do - it's not always easy to describe the Why - because it's experience that has taught me these things - you don't have 30 years to wade thru all those "Teaching moments" I've had - I'm just trying to give you some "Cliff Notes" about them.
STOP! Read The Instructions First! Your satisfaction is important to us. If you are having problems - Call 1-800-xxx-YYYZ and tell us what you need. Do Not Return Product To The Store!
I've had customers return radios back in the box - with cut leads and blown fuses and scratches everywhere on the case - I have to eat a cost on that - but I too have called those 1-800 numbers to get this POS off my desk and back to the place it came from so they could yell at the Quality control staff - if any...
Back to the Thermal issue...
Remember - some manufactures do not always say what the temperature readings needed to be or the length time into the testing on the bench needs to be taken - before it's considered "warmed up and stable" enough to be tested. You need to skip that and re-create the real world stuff - the environment it will be used in.
AC is nice on a hot day, but does little comfort when it (radio) and the customer are in a position of embarrassment due to your failure to provide that safety margin. Whether it's the hottest day of the year outside or the coldest on record - that radio was purchased with a level of trust - don't blow it by spending time on scruples and back-biting - fix what's wrong for the customers sake - even if it means having to violate the OEM rules and modify the radio to suit the environment it's going into.
So there is a reason for why I do what I do and show how I do it - for the reasons that your life may depend on it someday - especially in extreme weather conditions and you have to travel when it's not recommended - that radio may be the only thing that still works when other devices fail. Not because of you, but because of the environment took out the support towers and power lines feeding them, they're gone.
Sometimes the shine you have gets tarnished, but with a little more effort - the shine can be returned. And Shine is a relative term - for it is not always that, things that glitter are not always gold.
If you're read this far - Congratulate yourself - because instead of having to wade thru 30 years of times past to locate what you need, you got this far from a guy whom' has done things and made the mistakes through the past 30 years, so you don't have to. You've just saved yourself 30 years of time by taking this research to heart.
:+> Andy <+:
Last edited:
I do tend to try and remove modifications on these older radios. This Galaxy, for instance, had an unlocked clarifier, and the modulation limiting was defeated. On this radio, luckily, both are fairly easy to undo. When I find radios that have had their channels expanded, I tend to keep that modification, because they tend to make holes in the case to accommodate switches, and I can't do much about those, so I would rather they have some use. Also, on this Galaxy, someone had turned up the voltage to 15+ V, which fried the CPU board, which was a bitch to find a replacement for, as traces on the original were blown all over the board.
Coming from an area where I usually don't have to think much about doing a repair, it is definitely more fun to deal with radios, considering how many modifications are done to them, necessary or not, and how many ways there are to do the same things. I have quite a bit to learn about RF circuits though, so the explanations are definitely appreciated. I have always found it easier for me to solidly learn something when I know the reason why it is done in a certain way rather than just knowing that it is done a certain way. For instance, learning how to complete the square helped me tremendously with quadratic equations, if for no other reason than it helped me understand why the quadratic formula works. If I forget more complicated things, I can usually go back to the building blocks and derive the final answer, as long as I know the reasons to do things.
Coming from an area where I usually don't have to think much about doing a repair, it is definitely more fun to deal with radios, considering how many modifications are done to them, necessary or not, and how many ways there are to do the same things. I have quite a bit to learn about RF circuits though, so the explanations are definitely appreciated. I have always found it easier for me to solidly learn something when I know the reason why it is done in a certain way rather than just knowing that it is done a certain way. For instance, learning how to complete the square helped me tremendously with quadratic equations, if for no other reason than it helped me understand why the quadratic formula works. If I forget more complicated things, I can usually go back to the building blocks and derive the final answer, as long as I know the reasons to do things.
As long as the clarifier is working smoothly and properly I see no value in undoing the modification feature that would allow SSB operation to be smoother.
Well, on ssb, it is rare that more than two people are speaking together. Since people don't know what the other person's voice sounds like, they tend to tune their clarifier to where they think it sounds most natural. Imagine two people having a clarifier war, each trying to get the sound how they like it. Ultimately one person has to win out. With the clarifier locked, that is never an issue. Granted, it isn't usually a problem in real life, but it still could be. Further, on radios like this one, if you really want to slide of frequency, it's pretty easy without the clarifier being unlocked.
Anyway, I also see value in having these radios being near stock, and since they are my radios, until I sell them, I figure my preference gets to win.
Anyway, I also see value in having these radios being near stock, and since they are my radios, until I sell them, I figure my preference gets to win.
SSB mode? Oh it's great! Better than AM and far superior to FM - you can be the 3rd party and hear them all keyed up and talking.
Makes CNN look tame...
Makes CNN look tame...
My favorite explanation of the clarifier issue begins with two truckers, Moe and Larry.
They decide to try out this "sideband" stuff. They each buy the same SSB radio, put one in each truck and get each other tuned in before leaving the truck stop.
All is well. They're using a quiet channel, no Sesame Street noises. They notice the range is better this way than running AM on channel 19.
So far so good.
Until a third station comes on the channel and asks Moe and Larry why they're each transmitting on a different frequency.
To which they reply "Huh?" They hear each other just fine. What's this "different frequency" stuff, anyhow?
The reason is that the tiny trimmer pot inside each radio that sets transmit frequency is only so accurate. Typically not accurate enough to put each radio on the exact, same transmit frequency. And sideband only sounds right when you're tuned dead on the other station.
So long as you have only a 2-way conversation, there is no practical advantage to modifying a clarifier. You'll tune each other in just fine with the stock setup.
But if you want three stations (or more) all lined up on the same frequency, so you don't have to retune each time a different one keys up, there's just one solution.
Fix the clarifier to track the transmit frequency to the receiver frequency. That way, the frequency you hear is the same one where you transmit. Only way I know to get everyone's transmit frequency lined up together
Or not, as you may choose.
73
They decide to try out this "sideband" stuff. They each buy the same SSB radio, put one in each truck and get each other tuned in before leaving the truck stop.
All is well. They're using a quiet channel, no Sesame Street noises. They notice the range is better this way than running AM on channel 19.
So far so good.
Until a third station comes on the channel and asks Moe and Larry why they're each transmitting on a different frequency.
To which they reply "Huh?" They hear each other just fine. What's this "different frequency" stuff, anyhow?
The reason is that the tiny trimmer pot inside each radio that sets transmit frequency is only so accurate. Typically not accurate enough to put each radio on the exact, same transmit frequency. And sideband only sounds right when you're tuned dead on the other station.
So long as you have only a 2-way conversation, there is no practical advantage to modifying a clarifier. You'll tune each other in just fine with the stock setup.
But if you want three stations (or more) all lined up on the same frequency, so you don't have to retune each time a different one keys up, there's just one solution.
Fix the clarifier to track the transmit frequency to the receiver frequency. That way, the frequency you hear is the same one where you transmit. Only way I know to get everyone's transmit frequency lined up together
Or not, as you may choose.
73
Even if everyone's clarifier is unlocked, and they are running on the same frequency, when you tune your clarifier, you are essentially guessing at how someone's voice should sound, which means you might mistake the conversation as being on two different frequencies, even if they are on the same frequency. Beyond that, most radios aren't that far misaligned that they are obviously on different frequencies.
The reality is though, it is extremely rare that more than two people are trying to have a conversation on sideband at the same time. The only reason I ever wanted an unlocked clarifier was to be able to slide between frequencies to something like 27.195 to get away from some idiot, but that means the clarifier needs to swing a full 10 kHz, which not all are capable of.
The reality is though, it is extremely rare that more than two people are trying to have a conversation on sideband at the same time. The only reason I ever wanted an unlocked clarifier was to be able to slide between frequencies to something like 27.195 to get away from some idiot, but that means the clarifier needs to swing a full 10 kHz, which not all are capable of.
Not unusual at all to have 3 people talking at the same time not even in skip conditions. If using a HR2510 or RCI 2950 you do not need to unlock your clarifier because you can tune by the VFO. Looking for 10 KHz is something you do not need to do in my opinion. Unlocked is handy and not a butcher Mod. Like you said it is your radio and you can do as you like with it.
"Beyond that, most radios aren't that far misaligned that they are obviously on different frequencies.
The reality is though, it is extremely rare that more than two people are trying to have a conversation on sideband at the same time."
Po Duck, i have to say that my experiences have been different than yours.
Just listen to channel 38 LSB when the skip is rolling and you can tell just how many off frequency radios there are out there.
there are plenty of guys out there shooting skip on the same radio they've had in their shack for over 30 years. If it were any form of radio besides CB, i might agree with you, but on the chicken band, the radios are all over the place.
I also tend to drag at least one person away from a DX calling channel when i try to take a QSO to another freq. I will be talking to the intended contact and someone else will chime in with how they heard both of us and followed us to see if they could make the contact.
IMO locked clarifiers on the CB band just create a never ending game of hide and seek.
LC
The reality is though, it is extremely rare that more than two people are trying to have a conversation on sideband at the same time."
Po Duck, i have to say that my experiences have been different than yours.
Just listen to channel 38 LSB when the skip is rolling and you can tell just how many off frequency radios there are out there.
there are plenty of guys out there shooting skip on the same radio they've had in their shack for over 30 years. If it were any form of radio besides CB, i might agree with you, but on the chicken band, the radios are all over the place.
I also tend to drag at least one person away from a DX calling channel when i try to take a QSO to another freq. I will be talking to the intended contact and someone else will chime in with how they heard both of us and followed us to see if they could make the contact.
IMO locked clarifiers on the CB band just create a never ending game of hide and seek.
LC
Nomad's explanation of Clarifiers reminds me that the first traffic jam started when the third automobile was produced and sold.
73's
David
73's
David
LC. I am reading your post and laughing my but off. I sometimes here people that are a 1/4 turn or more off center and just can not believe it. LoL
How many of those people that are off frequency when you are listening to sideband are off frequency because their clarifier is unlocked? That is very difficult to know, but considering how common a modification that is, I would bet it is quite possible.
Anyway, back to repairing this monster. I now have new finals in the thing, and new diodes, but I am getting no power again. I have checked, and the diodes are soldered to the proper place and are not touching anything but the pads they go to, I don't see any solder bridges, and the capacitors are in the right place as well.
I have gone through the previous procedures explained. I again get no amp reading between TP2 and TP3, but I do get .46 amps between TP1 and TP3. When I put my oscilloscope probe on the collector and base of Q48, I get a very weak 28 Mhz signal, which is the frequency I am transmitting on. I don't seem to see any signal on the emitter. This signal also never seems to get to the finals.
Can someone help me understand how this signal is supposed to go from driver to finals, and shouldn't I be seeing a signal on the emitter of the driver?
Anyway, back to repairing this monster. I now have new finals in the thing, and new diodes, but I am getting no power again. I have checked, and the diodes are soldered to the proper place and are not touching anything but the pads they go to, I don't see any solder bridges, and the capacitors are in the right place as well.
I have gone through the previous procedures explained. I again get no amp reading between TP2 and TP3, but I do get .46 amps between TP1 and TP3. When I put my oscilloscope probe on the collector and base of Q48, I get a very weak 28 Mhz signal, which is the frequency I am transmitting on. I don't seem to see any signal on the emitter. This signal also never seems to get to the finals.
Can someone help me understand how this signal is supposed to go from driver to finals, and shouldn't I be seeing a signal on the emitter of the driver?
I guess my position is if you have the knowledge and can make a clarifier track as most of us believe they should then why not. Undoing a properly tracking transmitter/receiver reminds me of a man that put his legs in buckets of dry ice because he had some brain disorder that made think he didn't want his legs the dry ice did the trick and his legs had to be amputated a few months later when being interviewed while he was sporting his new wheelchair he was in tears and could only say "I don't know what the hell I was thinking" I know that is a not maybe a fair comparison but it seems to fit a statement like " What the hell are you thinking " making a transmitter not track properly? Now I agree you may do as you please and if a customer asked me to do that I would do it but I would do it in silent regret because others listening and trying to talk that radio would be wondering what the hell I was thinking when I did that to a customers radio, I think?
- No one is chatting at the moment.