Stick with the 4-element, but optimize it!
http://signalengineering.com/ultimate/4_element_yagi.html
http://signalengineering.com/ultimate/4_element_yagi.html
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M-104C to M-106C
- Thread starter Turbo6
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QRN said:
wait a second 3db loss equal 50% loss in power out .. and 3db gain is usual equal to double the power or 1 s-unit. thats alot how can that not be worth it ?????
when did 3 dbg become 1/2 an s-unit ???
FL Native said:
3 dB gain has been 1/2 an S-unit ever since Collins Radio established the standard that 50 microvolts equaled S-9 on a receiver and that each S-unit was equal to 6 dB change in signal strength. Not real sure of the date but it goes back to before I was born and I will be 43 years old next week.
S meter table
Another one
then again DB gain over a dipole is what you were talking about and refering to DBv gain on an S-meter hmm so confused now. but hey there is a big difference in a 4 elemetn beam and a 6 element. double the boom length and 2 more element. but if you want to reference some earthlink who know what or who made that chart.
ive allways read and been told double the power to get and extra s-unit and vise versa so hey to each his own i guess.
theory and real world. why did i even bother its all theory and what work at your house anyway.
someone was right about more front to back enought to make it worth it IMO. alot more foward gain and alot more back rejection. just my 2 cents. what ever that worth.
then again they wanted to know how too. the boom length and new spacing. not what my or your opinion was.
ok have a nice day. :guitar
ive allways read and been told double the power to get and extra s-unit and vise versa so hey to each his own i guess.
theory and real world. why did i even bother its all theory and what work at your house anyway.
someone was right about more front to back enought to make it worth it IMO. alot more foward gain and alot more back rejection. just my 2 cents. what ever that worth.
then again they wanted to know how too. the boom length and new spacing. not what my or your opinion was.
ok have a nice day. :guitar
Like I said before,if there is a big differance in just 3 db gain then all the RF enginners and the laws of physics are all wrong.One of the BIG problems CB'ers see and do not realize is that almost none of the CB's and especially those with a little LED bargraph meter are NOT calibrated to the proper standard.Some may show on extra S-unit increase with only a 2 dB gain.What you see on the meter may not be what you think it is unless the meter is properly calibrated and that has to be done at the factory during the design phase of the equipment.
Don't tell me,let me guess.It was from CB websites and friends right? Ask someone that is in the broadcast industry (my background BTW) or some knowledgable hams and you will be told that 6dB has been the standard and is equal to one S-unit change in a properly calibrated receiver.If the RF voltage is changed by 1/2 ,or double,then it will result in one S-unit change because in order for the RF voltage to be halved or doubled the TX power has to be changed by 4 times,or 6Db.
Here is a link to the RAC site.
Radio Amateurs of Canada S-meter discussion
Don't tell me,let me guess.It was from CB websites and friends right? Ask someone that is in the broadcast industry (my background BTW) or some knowledgable hams and you will be told that 6dB has been the standard and is equal to one S-unit change in a properly calibrated receiver.If the RF voltage is changed by 1/2 ,or double,then it will result in one S-unit change because in order for the RF voltage to be halved or doubled the TX power has to be changed by 4 times,or 6Db.
Here is a link to the RAC site.
Radio Amateurs of Canada S-meter discussion
your begining to sound just like someone else on here but with a different topic.
"One S-unit is a change of 6dB in signal strength, which corresponds to double the VOLTAGE or four times the POWER at the receiver input." <<< from the site you just posted.
double power 3db or 4 times power 6db ... same thing lmao
and now you say its all hear say that i was told by friends or "cb'ers" wow
and were did CB led meters come into play on a thread about DBD and gain figures of antennas.
and again your quoting some theory of some website you read and telling me some "cb'er" told me.... wow again
again why did i bother responding
they just want the measurements of a 6 element beam.
but you say ahhhhhhhhhhh dont bother noone will notice a difference.
either give them the measurements or
STFU. oh obe wan hamnobie.
"One S-unit is a change of 6dB in signal strength, which corresponds to double the VOLTAGE or four times the POWER at the receiver input." <<< from the site you just posted.
double power 3db or 4 times power 6db ... same thing lmao
and now you say its all hear say that i was told by friends or "cb'ers" wow
and were did CB led meters come into play on a thread about DBD and gain figures of antennas.
and again your quoting some theory of some website you read and telling me some "cb'er" told me.... wow again
again why did i bother responding
they just want the measurements of a 6 element beam.
but you say ahhhhhhhhhhh dont bother noone will notice a difference.
either give them the measurements or
STFU. oh obe wan hamnobie.
Yes that is correct as stated.
Well it is not the same thing. One is DOUBLE (3 dB) the other is FOUR TIMES (6 dB). In order to DOUBLE THE RF VOLTAGE YOU MUST INCREASE THE POWER TRANSMITTED BY FOUR TIMES (6 DB) Do not confuse RF voltage with RF power.
I did not say that I simply asked and yes I sort of expected that because that is a common misconception among a lot of CB'ers
Simply informing you and others that the LED meters in ANY radio are crap at best and will not give you an accurate indication of what kind of extra gain an antenna may have. You can not depend on them to show a 12 dB gain simply because the meter indicates 2 more S units.
Yeah you make me feel the same way.Some people just hate to be wrong and won't listen to something that goes against what they think they know.
The measurements are readily available.I say no one would hardly notice the differance and that is the TRUTH.The differance in gain is hardly worth the effort.
Don't tell me to STFU just because you are too stupid to learn or too ignorant to listen to FACT. This is stupid. I am fed up with people crapping on me when I try and post GOOD and ACCURATE info just because they think they know better.First,YES I AM A HAM SO WHAT? That was never an issue until you wanted to berate me because of it.Second i have been a commercial broadcast engineer for 22 years and I think I understand just a little bit more about S units and antenna gains than the average CB'er or ham for that matter. Am I being a snob,NO. I have never been that way,ask the admins here.I am done with this thead.
Now,I will stop short of childishness and NOT tell you to STFU and wish you a good day.
You see now why I put this part in my post now: "Does anyone have EXPERIENCE changing from one of these to the other?" If I get anywhere close to the 3db gain advertised it will be like doubling power and have better rejection. I got on last night for a while on AM and got radio checks a ways off. I tuned for a 100 watt DK and got a meter readings and then put it on a 200 watt DK. I did this with 6-8 people. It increased from 1/2 to 1.5 full s units. Yes we all know it really increased 1/2 S unit but the radios/meters vary.
I have the 6 element assembled in the back yard 6 feet off the ground and tuned the best I can get it. One thing I notice is the 6 is not nearly as broadbanded as the 4. The SWR is 1.6 on 26.9 mhz and 1.5 on 27.5 on my 259 analyzer. Remember the 4 is 85' up and the 6 is 6' off the ground. The 6 is 3-4 S units weaker than the 4 on locals but there is no difference in them when talking skip! I hooked them both to my switch box and flipped back and forth and the incoming signal stays the same. So how much will it help out on skip when I go from 6 ' up to 85'? Hopefully some!
DXman
Yes, that's 3100 degrees F. Nine yrs of hard work.
quote: So how much will it help out on skip when I go from 6 ' up to 85'? Hopefully some!
Your match should drop down lots more when you go on up higher.
When I had mine on the ground (10') it was showing 1:4/5, then it dropped down to 1:0:1 when I went up to 36'.
You should see a big improvement on DX. Lets us know how it's working compared to the 4 that you are replacing.
Your match should drop down lots more when you go on up higher.
When I had mine on the ground (10') it was showing 1:4/5, then it dropped down to 1:0:1 when I went up to 36'.
You should see a big improvement on DX. Lets us know how it's working compared to the 4 that you are replacing.
M104 VS M106
THE M106 IS HARDER TO POINT WHEN YOU ARE TALKING SKIP IF THE TARGET IS IN A MOBILE AND HE MOVE A LITTLE BIT A PERSON WITH A M104 HAS A WIDER BAND SPREAD AND THEY WILL BEAT YOU ALL THE TIME. SO MY CHOICE IS THE M104.
THE M106 IS HARDER TO POINT WHEN YOU ARE TALKING SKIP IF THE TARGET IS IN A MOBILE AND HE MOVE A LITTLE BIT A PERSON WITH A M104 HAS A WIDER BAND SPREAD AND THEY WILL BEAT YOU ALL THE TIME. SO MY CHOICE IS THE M104.
I have the M-103 and i really like it I hav eit mounted horizonially and It has pretty good rejection. I have a guy who give me 9 s-units when I turn away form him he dont even register on the meter all I have on him is audio.
The M-103 also holds up to wind and storms better
The M-103 also holds up to wind and storms better
I put up the 6 element and really did not like it! It was not as broadbanded and I had to get it dead on the station because the front end was so closed. I put the 4 element back up. I did get about a .5 S unit more gain if I had it DEAD ON them by testing with other stations on flat but it wasnt worth the trade off for me. The best overall beam is a 4 element for me!
How would a PDL-2 stack up against those beams and a maco 5/8th?
can I get feed back on this?
AP
can I get feed back on this?
AP
airplane1 said:
I have heard mixed things I heard wire element beams like the pdl are horrible in windy area of the country and are not very user friendly but at low heights the Pdl would out perform a yagi but at higher heights the Yagi has better recive and is very accurate . But the Pdl had vertical and horizonal polerizaton , The yagi on the other hand is only vertical or horizonal not both unless you wanna climb a tower all the time
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