Maco 103C flatside

[Ferrarimx5]

Maco 103C at 45 feet
HyGain P-500 will be mounted above the beam

Assembling the Maco 103C and mounting it Horizontal this next week..

It is said (and obviously true) that this will not work as well as a vertical mounted beam in a LOCAL vertical environment.

My question is, how does one define local?
Obviously 5 miles away a station would be considered local.
Same with someone 15 miles away.
But there are many towns that surround us in a 35 mile radius.
There are even more in a 60 mile radius (11,000 square miles)

What would one consider DX?
Would a vertical beam, 100 miles away, pointed my direction qualify as local or as DX?

@ 100 miles would it even matter if the beam were flat or vertical when pointed towards their vertical antenna or beam? (They would hear me and I would hear them just fine, right?)

Or does the signal need to bounce off of the ionosphere to be considered DX?

(I understand that the signal will also have a tendency to change polarization by bouncing off of buildings, trees and other objects also)

To clarify, if what I really want to reach is 100 to 150 miles away (Groundwave), would it be better to just mount the beam Vertical and forget the P-500?

I do talk local (usually with-in 30 miles) but would like to extend my range to the outer fringes.
My P-500 does a very poor job when the contacts are 50 miles away or further.

My main interest are the contacts that are 50 to 150 miles away.
Local is secondary.

Thank you in advance

 

[Robb]

I consider a bounce or more off of the ionosphere as DX - yes.

150 miles? Not unless you can get a straight shot from a mountain top or high elevation.

If the beam is set up as a vertical, then the mast/tower will interact with the beam and skew the radiation pattern. That is why they don't work so well in vertical configuration; doesn't mean it won't work - though. When set up as a horizontal, it will reach thousands of miles when ionospheric conditions are present. Farther, if conditions are optimal.

 

[222DBFL]

I have seen a beam at about 90ft off the ground here in FL, talk 60-80 miles consistently every morning. I was able to talk out to about 50-70 miles as well with a Sirio Vector 4000 that was 27ft off the ground. That is the furthest local contacts we have here in Dayton Beach. Up to St. Augustine, down to Cape Kennedy and a bit further south, and west out to past Ocala. All trips range between 60-80 miles. Not driving miles either. But anyways, the 3 element beam was on the flat side, (horizontal). He did well locally and with DX with that setup. A 3 element beam on an 85ft tower.
Hope this helps some as far as range might go. Its all dependent on terrain and Mother Nature. And also how busy the band is. I've heard some really quiet days and have the conditions be good and talk all the way up to Pensacola in the Panhandle of FL, from my QTH in Daytona Bch. At any rate, again hope some of this helps. Get one up high and you'll be surprised at what it will do if tuned properly. Good day and be safe.
73 and God Bless

 

[wavrider]

https://www.pasternack.com/t-calculator-fspl.aspx

fill the blanks in with your information and se what it calculates

 

[Road Squawker]

...what I really want to reach is 100 to 150 miles away (Groundwave),...

That isn't gonna happen on 27 MHz.

 

[w9cll]

o clarify, if what I really want to reach is 100 to 150 miles away (Groundwave), would it be better to just mount the beam Vertical and forget the P-500?

Not going to happen at least not consistently.

 

[M0GVZ]

To clarify, if what I really want to reach is 100 to 150 miles away (Groundwave)

Not going to happen if there is a hill between you. Not going to happen unless one or both of you are on a mountain with clear line of sight to the other. Its all about height above sea level and the radio horizon which is dictated by the point at which the curvature of the earth means the planet gets in the way. The higher you are above sea level the further away this point is.

 

[Robb]

Sure it can. Do it all of the time with a guy who lives on a mountain peak about 130 miles to my South. Talk to him regularly. Both of us are using verticals - to boot. No amps involved - either . . .

 

[w9cll]

Do it all of the time with a guy who lives on a mountain peak

Ahh.... yeah there is the catch

 

[DXman]

To clarify, if what I really want to reach is 100 to 150 miles away

This is possible, just need to have a 5 or 6 element vertical and not be sitting in a hole.

There was a guy around here that was running Moonraker 6 and was on a rock at 350' elv., he could reach down the coast of Washington a good 100 miles just about everyday. This was using the vertical side and we do have a lot of mountains around here.

I have a map of our state here and on this map I have marked every contact that I have made beyond the 60 mile mark (air miles). All the contacts to the 85 mile mark have been with a 5/8s ground plane (I am at 24' above sea level) and from the 90 mile mark and beyond has been with a horizonal beam on backscatter.

So I know that if I was using a beam on the vertical, it wouldn't hard to reach the 100 mile distance, just about anything is possible - just have to try it and see.......

 

[w9cll]

This is possible, just need to have a 5 or 6 element vertical and not be sitting in a hole.

Ahh..again theres the catch.

 

[Ferrarimx5]

This is possible, just need to have a 5 or 6 element vertical and not be sitting in a hole.

There was a guy around here that was running Moonraker 6 and was on a rock at 350' elv., he could reach down the coast of Washington a good 100 miles just about everyday. This was using the vertical side and we do have a lot of mountains around here.

I have a map of our state here and on this map I have marked every contact that I have made beyond the 60 mile mark (air miles). All the contacts to the 85 mile mark have been with a 5/8s ground plane (I am at 24' above sea level) and from the 90 mile mark and beyond has been with a horizonal beam on backscatter.

So I know that if I was using a beam on the vertical, it wouldn't hard to reach the 100 mile distance, just about anything is possible - just have to try it and see.......

Right now, with the P-500 (Single Stick with ground plane .64 wave) I can talk consistently with CB'rs who are on beams at 50-60 miles away. I am 13 feet above sea level and they are less than 200 feet above sea level. Once I am on a beam, we will be hearing each other far better. Right now, half of my signal goes out over the Gulf of Mexico. A beam will cure that and give me twice the distance. Being in the panhandle and on the water it should be no problem reaching panama city and beyond. Or the other way, shooting over the water to Shell Beach, Louisiana, but that is a stretch. My main question is should I go vertical? or should I go Horizontal with the P-500 above the beam? I am thinking Horizontal.

 

[Robb]

Right now, with the P-500 (Single Stick with ground plane .64 wave) I can talk consistently with CB'rs who are on beams at 50-60 miles away. I am 13 feet above sea level and they are less than 200 feet above sea level. Once I am on a beam, we will be hearing each other far better. Right now, half of my signal goes out over the Gulf of Mexico. A beam will cure that and give me twice the distance. Being in the panhandle and on the water it should be no problem reaching panama city and beyond. Or the other way, shooting over the water to Shell Beach, Louisiana, but that is a stretch. My main question is should I go vertical? or should I go Horizontal with the P-500 above the beam? I am thinking Horizontal.

You must be in the Las Vegas area very near Death Valley Nat'l Monument?

 

[Ferrarimx5]

You must be in the Las Vegas area very near Death Valley Nat'l Monument?

No, Fort Walton Beach Florida. Panama City is 60 miles to the east, Pensacola Florida is 60 miles to the west, Crestveiw Florida is 35 miles to the North and Defuniak Springs is about 45 miles to the North East. Cuba is 825 miles to the south, Lots of water with no returning signal to speak of.

 

[222DBFL]

I have on occasion spoken to some gents in Pensacola area. Not very many times. Can count on one hand. As far as the 60 mile range, that is possible no problem, but getting to 100 miles is a a lot harder. Don't care what some will tell you. They can't do it everyday. I would keep a realistic range, 60-70 miles max when the noise levels aren't bad. That is more attainable then 150 miles max I'll say that for sure. 100 miles will be possible. But you are going to have to get your antenna up high. That is JMHO. But like I said, you won't get 100 miles everyday. Not going to happen. Just my experience, and I live about 3-4 miles from the beach. Port Orange, FL, about 5 miles south of Daytona Beach, FL. Antenna I use is a Sirio vector 4000. They work well for local comms. And DX as well. But I know what to expect realistically range wise. At 30-36ft off the ground, I'll be able to get 60-70 miles. But I don't expect much if any more than that. Again, just my experience. Have a good one and good luck with your project. And be safe.