Maco 103C flatside

[Robb]

I have on occasion spoken to some gents in Pensacola area. Not very many times. Can count on one hand. As far as the 60 mile range, that is possible no problem, but getting to 100 miles is a a lot harder. Don't care what some will tell you. They can't do it everyday. I would keep a realistic range, 60-70 miles max when the noise levels aren't bad. That is more attainable then 150 miles max I'll say that for sure. 100 miles will be possible. But you are going to have to get your antenna up high. That is JMHO. But like I said, you won't get 100 miles everyday. Not going to happen. Just my experience, and I live about 3-4 miles from the beach. Port Orange, FL, about 5 miles south of Daytona Beach, FL. Antenna I use is a Sirio vector 4000. They work well for local comms. And DX as well. But I know what to expect realistically range wise. At 30-36ft off the ground, I'll be able to get 60-70 miles. But I don't expect much if any more than that. Again, just my experience. Have a good one and good luck with your project. And be safe.

If you can't get a signal that far in FL, it is because FL is flat as a board. Had no idea there are areas below sea level there - though. News to me.

I've talked to Jeff/AudioShokWav/Admin here on the forum some 160 miles to my East as well. Talked to a guy on 2M ham band because he lives near the summit of Donner Pass in the Sierra Nevada Mtns or a regular basis too (well over 200 miles). I can cite even more examples if needed. Please don't say it is impossible just because you never could. Height is might - in more ways than one. Maybe not in FL for the obvious reasons of being so flat. I can understand that.

 

[Ferrarimx5]

If you can't get a signal that far in FL, it is because FL is flat as a board. Had no idea there are areas below sea level there - though. News to me.

I've talked to Jeff/AudioShokWav/Admin here on the forum some 160 miles to my East as well. Talked to a guy on 2M ham band because he lives near the summit of Donner Pass in the Sierra Nevada Mtns or a regular basis too (well over 200 miles). I can cite even more examples if needed. Please don't say it is impossible just because you never could. Height is might - in more ways than one. Maybe not in FL for the obvious reasons of being so flat. I can understand that.

The Highest point in Florida is 300 feet above sea level and that is in Alabama. (look at Paxton, FL and Florala Alabama). When you live on the water, radio waves do not weaken like they do over land. We have a few advantages being flat and being on the water. No mountains to block and absorb signals.

 

[222DBFL]

Robb I didn't say it was impossible, I said it can't be don't everday. I just said that getting over 100 miles is a lot harder than getting to 60-70 miles on a daily basis.
I did say I have spoken to guys up in the Panhandle of FL, which Pensacola is 381 miles straight line. So you see I never said that these distances aren't possible, just not possible everyday. Sorry if you misunderstood what I was saying. Maybe I need to word my sentences differently. At any rate. Sorry for the confusion.
But just want to be realistic to the poster. Getting to 100 miles on daily basis is going to be hard to do without some decent conditions and a beam up high as possible. And yes, height is might!!

 

[wavrider]

Looking at this in perspective.
No mountain tops in Florida, take that out of the equation.
We do have water, lots of water and salt water marshes is a plus.

My QTH is 35 miles South of Jax FL I have never heard or made contact with the panhandle ever on 27 mhz.

On occasions when conditions are correct.( The term thermal clines thermal ducting comes to my mind) I have worked into South GA and as far South as Tampa, contacts to a mobile in Daytona Beach.

I can not do it Everyday at any time, mother nature plays a key factor in the process.

You want reliable contacts put to 150 miles, go to 7mhz day or night it will work for you, low hung wire antenna and 100 watts
Get an amateur license hell of a lot less expensive than 100' towers 6 or 7 element beams and multi kilowatt amplifiers.

 

[222DBFL]

Yep. It's only been a couple or three times I have talked with Pensacola.
Have also worked guys in Tampa from the east coast of FL. That isn't easy to do either! But I am able to consistently speak with guys in Ocklawaha, FL, over by Ocala and I also speak with a gent in St. Augustine almost everyday early in the morning, 4:30-6:00am. Wavrider might know some of them. They are on 38lsb. Maybe not.
But at any rate, like I was saying, making it out to 150 miles here daily i don't think is going to happen, not on 27MHz SSB. Maybe I am wrong. But I have just never heard anyone I know speak of talking that far daily.
Even my local pals beam was on top of an 85ft tower with the 10ft mast as well and rotor and stuff. So he was close to 100ft up. About 95-96ft. I could pretty well keep up with him locally with my NV4K that was at 27ft to the base when it was up DX was a different story sometimes
Now the plan is to take it to 36ft to the base. Should make for a good vertical antenna for local and DX comms if they return any if at all.
Okay, text wall over. I'm done. What do others think as to how far is most likely to make consistent contact with locals. How far. And give some reasons if needed. Helps some of less intelligent life forms to understand .
To All, have a Blessd day. Illness putting up tv antennas and then working on my antenna some more. It's tuned perfect. Just want to try some things out of curiosity and because I have it laying around. Run some LDF4-50A. I also have my LMR400. Currently using LMR240.
Anyways. Again, to all have a Blessed day and a great one.
God Bless
Sean

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

You can run the LDF4-50a if you want but you won't see much if any difference in real world performance. I use it on everything here from HF to VHF and while it does make a difference at 144 MHz you will be hard pressed to see any difference at 27 MHz and on the lower bands no difference at all. I run it for two reasons basically. It was free and lower quality cae would actually be more expensive because I would have had to buy it and also for the power handling of it on HF. Eventually I will be running maximum legal limit here of 2250 watts and I will need headroom to allow for SWR.

 

[fourstringburn]

Another thing to consider is the antenna polarization of the other stations you are trying to reach. This refers to the field of radiation being transmitted ( and received ) vertically from vertical antennas or horizontally radiated from horizontal antennas or the flat side as said in the CB world.

If the other stations are mostly all vertical antennas, then your effectiveness is lowered due to losses from cross polarization. Antenna polarization can make a dramatic difference on ground wave moreso then on skywave.

If you are just doing a crap shoot, then you are going to hear what you hear and should be able to communicate anyway so it doesn't really matter then.

There are antennas like cubical quad type beams that let you switch between vertical and horizontal polarization giving the best choice for any particular contact to match other stations polarization for best effectiveness.

Maco and others make quad antennas so you may want to do some research on these types.

There are advantages to both vertical and horizontal antennas and there is plenty of websites to read up on this subject to help you learn it so you can understand it better.

 

[222DBFL]

CK, mine was too free, and has just been sitting in my garage with UHF brass and silver connectors on both ends. Not sure of total length but I can cut it to whatever i need it to be and replace the connector if needed. Also have some FSJ4-50B, and LMR400, and LMR240. All of it was free, and like you that is most likely the reason I am going to use it. That is even if I do decide to use it. Just looking into other options.
Anyhow. Have a great day and thx for the reply.

 

[Road Squawker]

I think most of you are missing the obvious.

yes, under certain conditions that distance can sometimes be achieved on 27 MHz, but,............. its NOT "ground wave" propagation. GW @ 27 MHz is about 5 to 7 miles.

What you are referring to (as being a function of antenna HAAT) is DIRECT wave propagation and/or ducting.

 

[Ferrarimx5]

Road Squawker, Thank you for your input. Might try Horizontal for 3 months then change it to vertical and see what contacts are most common on each. Since my tower can tilt and crank, changing the polarity is a 10 min job.. Once I get it all figured out, you will see a write up on the performance of each set-up.

 

[222DBFL]

Just curious, how tall is your tower? You might be suprised at how far you can talk locally with it up high in the air using it horizontally versus vertically. But trying both ways would be the best way to do it like you said. I am just saying that you may be suprised at the range locally when they are up high. They work well for DX'ing as well as local comms if setup correctly and used correctly. Look a the lobes and null's that Marconi posted to see which way you might be able to turn the antenna and get a good local signal that is off in the distance. Again, it might help and it may not!! But it certainly won't hurt to try it out. Do this when you have the antenna in both positions and write down the results. Then you will absolutely know which works better. Also remeber to factor in floor noise and other things as well and note them. It will benefit you in the end. Not saying this is necessary at all!! But it might help you see just what your antenna does facing a specific way and not just N/E/W/S. Again, just some food for thought. Have fun and be safe installing it!!
Sorry for the text wall as well.
73 and God Bless
Sean

 

[Ferrarimx5]

Just curious, how tall is your tower?
Sorry for the text wall as well.
73 and God Bless
Sean

Tower is a work of art and yet is quite functional.
Two Rohn 25G Standard tower sections are welded together side by side, three foot cemented into the ground and 12 feet up from the concrete five foot by five foot slab that was poured on the ground over the concrete that secures the "Twin" towers in the hole. This slab helps to stabilize the foundation of the tilting, cranking, 45 foot tower that tilts at about 12 feet above the ground so that it is perfectly balanced and can be tilted up or down with two fingers and a piece of kite string (I use a rope).

The tower reaches 45 feet when it is cranked all the way up and takes less than fifteen seconds to get the antenna down to 20 feet and another fifteen seconds to tilt the antenna to just above the ground to balance on a 55 gallon drum (So we can work on the antenna) Perfect for my needs, but only reaches 45 feet before the mast, rotor and antenna are added to the equation. it literally floats as it tilts from being parallel to the ground to standing up straight.

so, the simple answer is, it is approx 45 feet tall.

3,000 lbs of concrete keep it stable, but if a Hurricane heads this way, it will only be 12 foot tall and tied down to some very secured ground anchors without an antenna attached. Quick, easy, effortless bad storm preparedness that is quicker than taking a flag from a flag pole.

Text walls are great, if the information is interesting.

 

[222DBFL]

Love the last sentence. Known for those myself LOL!!
At any rate, you get that beam up to 45ft and you should be able to get out pretty good. And like I was saying, you'd be surprised at how far you might be able to talk. Just takes turning the antenna the right way. Be safe placing the new antenna up. And enjoy what we have left for DX if any. I think you said you have some locals. If it's the Panhandle of FL you live, I know there are some guys up there. Spoken to a couple and have heard some as well as speaking with some when I worked up in the area from Tallahassee to Pensacola. Used to live in Panama City on Deer Point Lake back around 1990. Moved back to the Daytona Bch., area though as that is where I was born and raised. Now I live in Port Orange, FL, which is about 5 miles south of Daytona. Anyways. Again, be safe getting that antenna up and take your time! Get it right and it will do a good job for you.
73 and God Bless
222 Daytona Beach, FL
saying 73 and God Bless.

 

[BBB]

If the beam is set up as a vertical, then the mast/tower will interact with the beam and skew the radiation pattern. That is why they don't work so well in vertical configuration; doesn't mean it won't work - though.

You could get another 103C and phase them in the vertical position on a horizontal boom. That should help with some gain increase and get the beams a decent amount of distance away from the tower I would think. They sell this application showing the center boom as 13.3' wide overall. Looks like Star Wars Tie-Fighter

http://www.palcoelectronics.com/p1006350.aspx

I plan on doing this someday This is how my neighbor Skeeter did it with (2) Maco 104s:

 

[w9cll]

That should help with some gain increase

Generally stacking gives you about a 3db gain increase but the lobes becomes narrower. What is shown in the pics here are not stacking but phasing, like dual antenna's on a truck. Stacking would be mounting them horizontally but same results. I used to run a stacked set of Cushcraft 17b2's (17 element 2 meter ham antenna) at 100ft.