Maco V58 Assembly Review

[Pioneer621]

Marconi,

That always confused the heck out of me! I got my antenna somewhere around 10 years ago & I was not sure what they were referring to when they stated “below the hole for mounting bracket C13P”, I was not sure if they meant the VERY bottom of the antenna, or just below the hole for the bracket. I never figured that one out, so I just measured it from the very bottom & fiddled with the overall height at the hose clamp to get the SWR dialed in the best I could, & the antenna has always been a pain, maybe I have been measuring it wrong? Or it has just been too close to obstructions affecting the SWR. That should definitely be worded differently & maybe shown in there diagrams in there manual.

On mine there is about a 1-3/4” gap between the very bottom of the antenna to just below the hole for the mounting bracket C13P, when looking at it with the yardstick at the proper angle.

Here is a picture of the very bottom of the base assembly of mine, in the picture its not the best angle, but with straight view its just a hair farther then 1-3/4”, it measures pretty much right on 45mm. Looking at the picture the bottom is the VERY bottom & the hole you see right above that is where the C13P mounting bracket / clamp goes. So there measurement point is one of those two points.


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[Sonwatcher]

I think they were trying to show that the length of the antenna begins at the bottom of the base and not where the first knuckle is-

 

[Pioneer621]

That makes sense Sonwatcher; seeing that diagram with the arrow pointing to the bottom, which leads me to now believe the VERY bottom of the antenna as shown by the arrow. Why don’t they just state the very bottom of the antenna or very bottom of the base assembly, why even bother mentioning “below the C13P mounting hole”? Just doesn’t seem necessary. It was always confusing to me for some reason, but I went by the very bottom anyhow. In all honesty I don’t remember seeing where it showed BOTTOM with the arrow pointing to it when I was going through the manual. I just rechecked my old original paper copy and it shows that too! I was a bit overwhelmed when I originally got the antenna & seen all the parts that needed put together, so I must have overlooked that detail. I was 13 or 14 years old at the time & it was a project for me! Not as simple as my cousins Solarcon A-99 we put together in a couple minutes with no tuning required. Thanks for pointing that out. I’m surprised after all these years I never noticed that or don’t remember noticing that.

 

[Marconi]

I still don't know where the bottom is either. It could be either of the two points on the bottom of the base noted below I suppose. I don't believe it's at the top for sure.

 

[airplane1]

I understood that it was measured at the hole where the bolt goes through to mount it to the mast. It worked for me and I had no problems what so ever tuning the antenna. I think if one makes a mistake and measures to the very bottom then it is only off a few inches and still should tune pretty quick. I think it is more important to get the measurement right on the hoop of the antenna than the length.

AP

 

[Pioneer621]

I was reading through my manual again to see what all was covered, & on page two in the BASE ASSEMBLY section it states:

“Note: Overall length is the distance from the top of part T01P to the bottom of part BA1P.”

The top of T01P would be the very top of the antenna as T01P is the very top tube.

The BA1P is the very bottom tube of the base of the antenna & is what mounts to the mast (& the tube in my photo above), & since they state the bottom of the BA1P I think there referring to the very bottom of the antenna.

Meaning once the antenna is assembled & ready for overall measurement, you measure from the very bottom of the antenna (very bottom of the BA1P) to the very top of the antenna (tip of the T01P).

With the figure of the base assembly where it has the arrow pointing to the BA1P tubes bottom, I think that’s what there referring to as the bottom. But I am still a bit confused how they word it in different pages of the manual & why they mentioned anything about the bottom is below the hole for the C13P clamp. And no real good illustrations of the measurement points.

I had absolutely no idea when I originally put the antenna together, but after seeing some of the stuff you guys pointed out in the manual & me re-reading it again, I think they are referring to the absolute bottom of the antenna once it’s assembled, but that’s how I am taking it in & I could be wrong!

I’m glad I seen this thread, maybe I’ll finally understand that part of the manual so I can do it properly.


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[Marconi]

621, my instructions does have the Note:, but it is written "The bottom means the very bottom!" However I still ask the question, "...if you mount the base inside of your mast how then do you tell where the bottom is?

My instructions also tell you to slide BA1P down inside the mast about 6" inches and secure it also using C13P clamp over the mast. With such an installation it would seem there is likely enough antenna material in the mast to make for good support.

However when you install the mast inside of the BA1P base, then there is only about 2" of mast used for support, and IMO that seems to be a bit shy of good support at that point. I also think most installs are made in this manner---with the mast inside of the BA1P base.

I recently saw a manual that appeared to be a new V58 manual and it did not show the install with the antenna inside of the mast as I recall.

I also note that Maco as requested all their antenna manuals be removed from CB Tricks. CB Tricks suggest that they will be re installed as soon as the new owner fixes all of the instructions. It is also stated that this will happen soon, so I'll be watching if Charles Electronics will release their manuals for everyone to see. The promise was in about 30 days. I think someone posted this new manual here on WWRF recently, but I can't find it. From what I remember it looked to be much more professionally done.

 

[Pioneer621]

Hmm, there does seem to be different variations of instructions. All my copy says about mounting is as follows.

On page-3 in the “MOUNTING THE BASE SECTION”

“On a mast with an outside diameter of up to 1”, first position clamp ring C13P on the base and install the 5/16 x 1” hex bolt and nut S24, N01 as shown. Insert mast pipe 6” into the base & tighten.”

So in mine it says to insert the mast pipe 6” into the base of the antenna & tighten the clamp, so that’s how I always did it. Mine says nothing about sliding the BA1P into a mast, that seems like it would be very difficult to do the way the clamp holds the antenna to the mast. Plus the spider hub for the radials probably would not allow it to fit 6” into a mast, I’m thinking maybe 5” before it hit the spider if the spider was installed 1/2" from the bottom of the P08P bracket.

Looks like the one inch mast suggestion in mine was possibly an early error, mine fits easily a 1 1/4” mast. I use to use it on old fence post which I think was 1 1/4”, & it would easily fit the telescopic type I am using now.

The note that you mentioned; "The bottom means the very bottom!" sounds real familiar for some reason, but I don’t see that in my original copy here unless I am missing it. When I bought my antenna brand new from a local operator about 10 years ago he gave me an extra copy of the manual for some reason that he had printed, which may be where I seen that as now that you mention it I read that somewhere, but I don’t know where my other copy of the manual is he gave me. I was not sure why he gave me an extra copy of the manual as when I opened the box the original was in there, maybe he new of some revisions but I don’t remember him mentioning anything at the time, he just handed me the new in box antenna & the copy of the manual.

It’ll be interesting to see if there is a new manual for the antenna & better. I’ll have to remember to check for it.

Interesting for sure, I never even realized there were different versions of the manual with slightly different variations! I’ve learned more already! Maybe the next time I put my V58 back up I will have a little more knowledge for the initial setup. I always managed to get a decent SWR, but it took a while of fiddling with the length & it seemed way off of what there measurements were.

 

[airplane1]

I have a manual from 2003 that does not show mounting the antenna on the outside but the new one does. I will dig it out and try to post it here.

AP

 

[Marconi]

621, I agree mounting the mast inside of BA1P is the most common way of installing the V58.

After posting I went on the Internet looking for a newer version of the manual and I found a review that had a real closeup and clear picture of the base mount. I see where the C13P clamp screw tightens up against the mast inside and allows the mast to go up more than the 2" inches I originally thought.

My manual also describes placing C13P bracket over the mast and placing BA1P down inside with the screw tight against the base of the antenna---and it the less common install.

621, I also read that BA1P is tapered a bit, is that true?

Your last comment is what I've been waiting to hear someone talk about. With the manual as questionable as it is, I could never figure out how Maco wanted one to measure the overall length. If this was also a question for other's and they understood the instructions in error, then I wondered how they got their V58 to work right without a lot of trial and error tuning and we don't hear much along those lines.

Did you happen to re-measure the length after you got the SWR set right, and note the difference? If you didn't, that is fine, but I would really be interested to hear how that all worked out. If not, maybe Charles Electronics will give us a clue to the question if they allow their new manuals to be published on CBTricks.

 

[Pioneer621]

Marconi,

I honestly did not re-measure it after fiddling with it, I got it under a 1.5 after putting it up, taking it down, putting it up, taking it down several times to gradually adjust the length in the 1/4" increments as stated in my manual (I did not have a big latter or it set up lower to tune it at ground level so I had to take it down when I needed to make adjustments, it was only 20 feet high to the very bottom of the antenna). After a while of that, I started going in much larger increments until I seen some changes in the real high SWR, once I finally got it under a 1.5 where I operated I pretty much left it alone as I did not feel like taking it down again. I think I tried to keep notes on my adjustments the last time I set it up & tuned it, but it started to take so long I stopped keeping track as I just wanted to get it done so I don’t know where I ended up.

My mounting location has been less then ideal with trees all around, mounting the antenna at the roof line where the gutters are, etc. so some of that could have contributed to my SWR problems & I can’t blame the antenna or manual, I just have not been in the greatest locations to mount an antenna of that size & don’t have a tower yet or high enough mast pipe. That’s the main reason I am not using the V58 now. But with some confusion in the manual, I was never sure if it was the surroundings around the antenna or something not set quite right.

As for the BA1P being tapered:

The BA1P bottom tube which you can see in my photo in one of my previous posts is not tapered at all. That tube by itself measures 12” long, & 1.5” in diameter at both ends. I have the antenna apart completely as I was cleaning all the tubing a while back & I just measured it.

The black insulator goes in that tube, and then the first vertical radiator element tube goes in that, none of which is tapered, just standard tubing bolted together to form the base assembly.

Yeah, that picture you posted of the antenna mounted looks like how I had mine. I’m not familiar with the other mounting method. I don’t think either copies of my manual described it.

Wish I could have been more help on my tuning experience with better details.

 

[Marconi]

I understand 621, I've been down that road before when some frustration set in and I thought I was just chasing my tail. But, could I just try and jar your memory a little.

Do you recall what overall length you started with, and/or the frequency you wanted?

Which points did you use to measure that overall length?

Do you recall which way you ultimately went to get to your tune, longer or shorter?

During the process, did you also move the tap point?

Good luck 621, if and when you try this one again. Those big radials probably do need to be as far away from "stuff" as possible in order to really be sure they are not being ill-affected.

Marconi

 

[Pioneer621]

I’ve been trying to remember for you Marconi! I can’t, so I had to go digging for my notes! The info I was going to give you from my memory would have been totally wrong, so I’m glad I found them & did not go the memory route, haha.

I’ll be honest; I am probably in the wrong section here since I use the antenna on the CB band.

Ok, you made me search (dig through a mess) for my notes as I could not remember where I started! I found my notebook (took me a while), but my tuning info is a bit vague & not really completed, but I’ll try to describe my results before I gave up writing anymore down. The SWR was not as bad as I made it out to sound, but it still was not very good when I started. I think I got frustrated more then anything because it took so long taking the antenna down to make a small adjustment then put it back up, I was out there for a good part of the day by my self fooling with it, I think it was getting dark so I just wanted to get it finished quickly.

My original V58 manual which I am looking at right now states for 27.0 Mhz the overall length is 240” & that is where I started. That way there was no guessing on the measurements for the center of the band since I had trouble tuning it in the past guessing for the center of the band & I wanted a good starting point. 27.0 Mhz is pretty much CB channel-4 (5Khz under four) so I knew my SWR should be acceptable on channel-1 if everything was set as the manual suggests.

On a side note, I just checked a newer manual at the link below & for the V5/8 it shows for 27.0 Mhz the overall length is 248”, I wonder why its 8” different in mine? Which is it really? Or did they make changes to there antenna, or just the manual again? Maybe there measurements were off?
http://www.macoantennas.net/assembly/support2/V58I072810_Web.pdf

On to my notes:

I know I measured from the VERY bottom of the antenna to the VERY top tip of the antenna for my overall length measurement as I always have, even though I was unsure of that step.

I noted my start at 240” for 27.0 Mhz. (keep in mind my antenna was very close to metal gutters, trees, etc. so tuning could have been affected from reactance to those objects.)

Checking SWR on CB channel-1 (where it should have been good) shows it was about a 3.0:1
Checked on channel-40 shows it was a 1.6:1

Next I lowered the vertical element 1/4" & the SWR went up as expected so I went back, for some reason I did not note the SWR readings other then it went up so I knew I had to raise the antenna length. Which was expected to get it better on channel-1.

Next I went back to 240” & from there raised the antenna length 1/4", checked SWR on channel-1 & 40 but it was about the same as when I started, maybe went down a hair, but not really noticeable if anything, & maybe my imagination if I did see a difference!

I raised the antenna length another 1/4” two more times & it was about the same, maybe came down a hair, but again, not really noticeable if anything.

Since I was not seeing any results I raised the antenna length by 1”, I checked the SWR on channel-1 & it came down to about a 2.2:1
On channel-40 it was about a 1.1:1

Getting better so I raised the antenna length by another 1”, checked the SWR on channel-1 & it was still around a 2.2:1
On channel-40 seemed to come down a little & was almost flat & seemed under a 1.1:1

Again, raised the length by another 1”, SWR on channel-1 came down to a 2.0:1
Channel-40 still a 1.1:1 or less

Decided to raise the antenna length another 1”, SWR on channel-1 came down to about 1.7:1
Channel-40 went up to a 1.2:1

That’s where my notes stop, I think I may have made another few fine adjustments then left it alone, but I don’t remember what the final SWR was. My main frequency is channel 33; I was good there so I can’t see tuning much more. I just wanted to get channel 1 as good as I could as I like to be able to go to any of the 40 channels with a decent SWR. So in the end it was probably acceptable through channels 1-40. But I think t was still a little high on channel-1 by the time I was done (over a 1.5 on channel 1).

So I had to go up 4.75” inches (probably a little more that I did not note down, so maybe 5” or slightly more) to get the SWR acceptable. So overall final height around 244.75” to maybe 245” or so. But some of this tuning could be from reactance of nearby objects. Seems closer to the newer V5/8 manual? All the changes to the manual really make me wonder, unless the newer antenna is a newer design or something. Now if I would have measured from the bottom of the hole of the C13P clamp instead, then it would have been a little closer to 240”, somewhere around 243.25” or so.

Well, not the greatest info on my tuning & certainly not complete, but at least I found the notes!

Since my end result was about where I wanted it, I don’t think I adjusted the tap point on the ring; I have before, but not sure during this particular setup.

 

[Marconi]

Very good info 621. The only physical difference I see between the new manual and the old is CE's only suggest the single mount idea where the mast is installed inside of BA19. The wall thickness of the tubing is also thicker @ .050". That may have some affect on the overall length dimension, but it would surprise me if it was noticable during tuning. The 27.0 mhz length of 248" seems to be a bit long and it is way out of portion relative to the other frequency differences noted between 26 and 33 mhz.

So, I'm still not sure how the new V58 length will finally tune out, but Maco still shows the arrow to the bottom being the very bottom and I would agree that is the point they mean for the bottom. One thing is for sure, your observations are correct, you had to go longer when starting at 240". However, if you had been measuring at the bottom of the bolt in C13P you would have been close to where you ended up in overall length while using the 240" inches and measuring from the very bottom of BA1P.

The increased wall thickness seems like a good thing for the durability of the V58, because it may be thicker that what Maco ended up using before they sold out. I've also read that the .50" wall thickness telescopes best and makes a better fitting antenna.

The new instructions still note that Charles Electronics will not be deburring the tubing, I wonder if they have resumed making compression slots in the tubing, the parts list doesn't show it? I would pay extra for both slotting and deburring services if it was an option.

This old 240" for 11 meters in the manuals may go back to the days when Maco advertised this antenna strictly as a 10 meter antenna. IMO this helped them get around the government mandate regarding safety with all aluminum vertical antennas during the CB craze days. It may have also been a wise marketing idea to help them get better situated in the growing 10 meter vertical antenna market as well---back when all the 10 meter and export type radios were first hitting the US market strong.

Good work 621, I'm sure glad you kept your notes.

 

[Pioneer621]

Yeah, if I would have measured from the C13P hole instead, it would have definitely been closer to the 240” from the start.

I did not even realize (probably did not pay attention) that the tubing on the newer ones is thicker then the old ones, that definitely seems good. My antenna has been through some rough conditions & I am surprised it’s still in one piece; it managed for at least 9 years or so. But thicker walled tubing definitely sounds good to me.

It would be nice if they at least offered to de-burr the tubing and slot it where needed. Mine really was not too bad with burrs, it was actually pretty clean in that area, but I did have to cut the slots in some of the tubing so the clamps could easily compress it together.

I definitely want to set my V58 back up one day in a good location, and away from interfering objects if at all possible, hopefully that will go smoother!