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Magnetic Antenna Question

TomGallopavo

New Member
Oct 21, 2024
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I'm new to CB so please forgive me. I am currently restoring my 1998 Dodge ram 2500 regular cab. I have turned my attention to the interior. The headliner needs to be recovered. The cb is mounted on the interior cab roof. The antenna is on the cab (center) and the cable runs straight back, then to the driver door, then along the top to the front center where the extra is wrapped in a figure 8. With the headliner removed I get less than 1.5 on the radio swr. If I put the headliner on it jumped up over 2. So I put a piece of foam underneath the figure 8 and that brought it down to 2ish with the headliner. I also have a 4 foot firestick I could moount on the headache rack. Should I splice the wire to make it shorter to remove the figure 8? Or is there something else I should try. Radio id a Galaxy 959 and the antenna is a Wilson little wil. Thank You!!!!
 

I am also using a mag mount and I bonded the coaxial ground to the car body for the ground plane. The RF ground is a must. Then I put a common mode choke about a 8 inches from my antenna. My coaxial is a lmr 240. The quality of antenna and coaxial has a lot of to do with your performance and the swrs as well. There's nothing wrong with wrapping your excess coax in a figure 8. CB radios are like ham radios only difference is the licensing requirement and the frequency. The frequencies of the CB and 10m ham are both considered high frequencies. When installing a CB just think like a licensed amateur radio operator.
 
IMG_20241021_120352019_HDR.jpgI wrapped tinned copper braid around the the ground of the coax and bolted to the lift bolt on my tailgate. Top picture is my SWR reading .There are no holes put into my roof and there are also no paint scratched off on my roof for ground.IMG_20241021_120329789.jpgIMG_20241021_120304284_HDR.jpg
 
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If it is a mag mount antenna there is no need to add a ground to the antenna. A mag-mount antenna is grounded through capacitive coupling between that magnet and the metal it's stuck to.
The RF ground is established passively through magnetic coupling rather than an electrical connection. Electrically grounding an antenna provides a solid, low-resistance connection to the earth, which can help reduce noise, improve signal reception, and enhance the antenna's efficiency for both transmitting and receiving. However, if the ground plane is smaller than 5.5 inches in diameter, it will be ineffective in achieving the desired result. The purpose of the RF ground is to provide a reference plane for the antenna, effectively creating a mirror image of the radiated RF signal. This mirror helps the antenna optimize its transmission efficiency by providing a surface from which the RF energy can reflect and propagate, improving the radiation pattern and the overall effectiveness of the signal.
 
Fixed body mount in the roof is the best option. If it's already got a fixed mount and you've the issues you're experiencing then it may be that there's some corrosion under the mount or the mount itself has issues so it would be best to replace it. It'll be much better than going to magmounts.
 
So you guys think that the swr at 2 has to do with the little wil antenna and not the gound?

Just for squirts and squiggles, try just randomly spreading the extra coax up inside the headliner instead of a bound bundle. It only takes a minute and you may be surprised. Or, not. But you have nothing to lose.
 
Just for squirts and squiggles, try just randomly spreading the extra coax up inside the headliner instead of a bound bundle. It only takes a minute and you may be surprised. Or, not. But you have nothing to lose.
I did that. What helps is when it sags away from the metal roof. Once it's up tight the swr goes up.
 
If changing the routing or location of the coax changes SWR then you have one of two issues. Essentially the easy description for both of these is you have antenna currents flowing at places you don't want them.

The most common cause is common mode currents. A lot of people will falsely insist that this isn't an issue with mobile setups, however, this is especially common with magnet mounts, especially smaller magnet mounts such as the one that comes with the Little Wil. As mentioned above, the magnet is to small in this case to properly "ground" the antenna to the vehicle below. In this case size (of the magnet) matters. Also, running a ground wire from the magnet mount to somewhere else on the vehicle is not a fix for this, RF grounds do not work that way and need to be as close as possible to the antenna. When it comes to CB frequencies, a two feet lead to a ground is enough to start effecting the tune of the antenna noticeably, and when you have a known problem like this if it appears to help the problem but in reality said problem still exists and is being hidden it.

The fix for this is to have an RF choke on the coax, the best place is right next to the antenna. The next best option is a few feet away from the antenna right after the coax enters the cab, but this should be no more than two or three feet up the coax. Where on the coax said choke is matters, and the further away you get from the antenna the less effective it will be. Do not assume that a random coil of coax (or figure eights in this case) will act as a choke, clearly in this case it is not. RF chokes are far more specific than that. Using ferrite to create said choke is also an option (many of us would say better option) here especially since they can be made much smaller and potentially hidden more easily.

Some people actually try to use said common mode currents to "tune" mobile antennas, and then typically think the problems such a "tuning" method creats as not being related to said "tuning". After all, they got a perfect SWR match right???

The other cause of this type of issue is something called a ground loop, although when it comes to magnet mounts this is far far less common due to how the magnet mount works. In this case, their are two or more "ground" paths between the radio and antenna of different electrical lengths. The only way I can see this happening when it comes to magnet mounts is if you have a ground wire running from the mount to somewhere else on the vehicle in an effect to "ground" said antenna. You will note I put the word "ground" in quotes. The reason is all to often in RF the reality of what a ground is and how it works is different than the DC centric ideas most people have on grounding.


The DB
 
Here is some information on the "ugly balun". Basically just the coax coiled up a certain way will choke out the common mode current that gets reflected from the antenna to the coax outer braid.

Five turns of coax in a four inch diameter should do it.

Thread 'The "Ugly Balun"' https://www.worldwidedx.com/threads/the-ugly-balun.48415/

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