Marconi testing an original Starduster vs. Gain Master

[jazzsinger]

My antenna isn´t a multi-band, it wasn´t sold as one. It also wouldn´t make sense (here in Germany) as UKW-radio is allways horizontally polarised and not vertically.

i'm aware of that, the reference i made was to eddie moleculo who asked what effect the coils on the starduster m800 had. the polarity of a compromise antenna is like every other part of its design, a compromise.

I can´t imagine that the physical shortening of the radials has such a big impact on its performance. Electrically they are long enough and there is still the long pole in the middle that is, like the radials, connected to the ground. Maybe the band-with is shorter. All im all it´s a good antenna for its size and it looks good...

you didn't really read what i typed, if you did you would realise that i was agreeing with you when i said there is unlikely to be any major impact on performance and the uk thunderpole supported that despite having a shortened radiator. i'm also aware how well all variants of the simple 1/4 gp antenna fare, be they full sized or shortened. i used a starduster for a long time back in the eighties, and many other clones, and wouldn't hesitate to install one today.

 

[Shockwave]

Shockwave, I've re-read this linked thread again and I don't find anywhere that W8JI says or alludes to your idea: He may have said so in some other writing, but I don't see it here. If you have a link to such a conclusion by him, I would like to see it, cause I believe W8JI would suggest the very opposite and in particular according to his words, "...as determined in the minds of CB'ers and Hams." I think I've also read Cebik's ideas on this matter, and I think he too does not support the idea that the 5/8 wave antenna shows 3db advantage over a 1/4 wave, when tested over real Earth.

You know for some years I also believed that the longer antennas were so much better than the little "jobbers" that I was use to using, albeit I never felt inadequate in my radio operations at my location or in the mobile.

At some point when Jay first produced his new I-10K I decided it was time to try and compare test one of those longer styled antennas, and after a while testing my SD'r vs. I-10K, at differing heights, I really questioned what all the hop-la was all about.

So, I bought or was given some other antennas, and I tested and compared them as well. This started about 10 years ago, and since then I've taken the I-10K out and installed it and re-tuned it, but nothing has ever changed my mind that my SD'r couldn't perform just as well, even while set with the tip in the middle and higher...compared to the I-10K.

I know, I get the idea about side by side testing, but as you can tell I do a lot of signal recording, and even when I set these antennas out there all alone, the signals I record are always about the same, baring conditions of course or guys changing something with their radio systems.

I don't argue, that in theory, it is stated that the 5/8 wave shows a bit less than 3db gain over a 1/4 wave, but it also notes this occurs when compared over an infinite and conductive ground plane.

Simply put, had I never been able to see a 3db improvement by using Jay's I-10K over my Starduster, else I would be right there with you guys arguing the same issue while using my I-10K.

Here is a direct quote taken from W8JI "In the real world the actual gain difference between a 1/4 wave antenna and a 5/8th wave can be anywhere from the same up to a maximum of 2 dB. The 5/8th wave is never really worse, explaining why people have no problems using them." It was taken from this link 5/8th wave mobile antenna vs 1/4 wave I understand he is talking about VHF antennas here but the same thing applies to 27 MHz so long as we have a full set of 1/4 wave ground radials at the feed point.

The grounding issues he makes so much fuss over are much more relevant at low frequencies like standard broadcast AM through 80 meters. The problem is much easier to overcome on 11 meters. I wonder what W8JI would think of the Gain-Master? No ground radials at all on a 5/8 wave and the angle of radiation is even lower. Not to mention it cures the problem of coax and mast radiation he points out in the Imax 2000. I was always thought that we could expect about 1.2 db from a well designed and properly installed 5/8 wave as compared to the dipole reference standard.

 

[Blue_Max]

...you didn't really read what i typed, if you did ....

I did read, but maybe I didn´t understand correctly as I´m not a native english speaker.... Please forgive

 

[gamegetter]

I agree adding power seems to do what you suggest. However, and this is just a guess gamegetter, since I can't see RF signals. But, you could also notice a difference in audio between two antennas at one moment in time simply due to conditions where signals arrived as line of site signals on one antenna, and with the other antenna the signals were reinforced by the addition of some reflection on the Earth's surface or objects, or from high angle reflections from the sky.

IMO, we are not likely to be able to observe such responses...unless at least one of the stations has two antennas up, connected thru a switch box for rapid switching, and the conditions are just right. To be fair, Bob85 recently posted information in another thread on this forum about their setting the radio's RFG back, in order to see better responses, and I believe that is possible in many cases. So, that too must be considered as a possible "cause" or "NO," in all such cases as I described above.

Otherwise I agree, it probably takes a lot of added power to produce a noticeably stronger audio signal in a general sense, and of course distance probably has much to do with such a phenomena being noticable. However, I might believe the responses are similar, IMO the causes are different.

greetings,

I believe this is possible and one example i can think of is when i used to park my vehicle next to a huge ground water storage tank and use it as a reflector...a 2 element beam if you would, but what i would expect from gain in this system would be perhaps 3-4 db or a half an s unit. A marginal gain at best and some people pro'lly would not notice it. So yes it is possible that you have experienced some of this phenomenon. Enjoying the thread and wishing everyone a good day.