Exactly, if i check Operator #A B or C today and go back 3 days and check the signal again it is exactly the same. What do you think would cause Muli path at signals 20 miles away.
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Marconi testing the Sigma4 vs. Gain Master
- Thread starter Marconi
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Exactly, if i check Operator #A B or C today and go back 3 days and check the signal again it is exactly the same. What do you think would cause Muli path at signals 20 miles away.
I can only venture a guess with respect to what he experiences, but being surrounded by the Houston metropolis topography might have some influence. Perhaps thousands of tons of metal objects careering down the roads in every direction to, from and across the compass all around him might, and the constant flights of aircraft to and from several airports . . . the air changes, too. I get weather reports where I live, but pollution density reports are common in large cities. . . I can't say, but one has to wonder if such and other peculiarities might have some effect in such an environment.
I'm not well informed on this subject, and I sure don't know what causes the multi-path condition even at longer ranges. However, for sometime I've felt this was what was going on when the locals here were able to communicate with stations around...up to a 100 mile and greater range without notable DX working. I have even suggested to Bob that might be what he experienced when he was able to communicate with his buddy at a distance on the coast, only when they were both using their Vector hybrids and no other antenna.
I think all of the CB vertical antennas I have present the necessary lobes, angles, and gain for this to work, but I'm not sure how close up this happens.
I think Bob noticed this with several stations on one of my videos, but these stations are around the 30-40 mile range, so maybe it does happen this close.
I too have an idea of the signal peaks from my buds too, but much more than conditions are going on here that affects their signals. These guys maybe unusual operators, in that they have multiple radios, amps, beams, and vertical antennas, and sometimes they change stuff just for the hell of it.
MrS, if your buds were so lucky to have a variety of gear like this, could this maybe account for some of the difference that you never see at your station?
Marconi, I am sure these guys lack of equipment is doing just that ...LOL these are some broke ass bitches. Most of the locals on this particular channel all have I max's and Antrons, very few have ham radios thre power isnt varying other than perhaps the deadkey but when they talk it always winds up the same. Of course you know if they have a amp on. Bob has heard some of the stuff we play in paltalk room.
i can't say for sure what causes it, the effect is very similar to a plane flying over but far longer lasting,
on fm it creates signal flutter that builds signal up as it slows down then goes the other way and starts speeding up as the signal fades back to normal signal,
on ssb it sounds more like a flanging effect,
i always thought it was the ionosphere causing the longer lasting slower effects,
when the sun is silent and theres no dx it happens very rarely or maybe not at all,
local signals here on fm are usually the same from day to day unless somebody change something,
we radio foxhunt on 27mhz, to keep fuel costs down we use an area of about 250 square miles, the furthest you could be away from the hunters is about 20 miles,
its all about signal strength, the experienced guys use different methods to see small changes in signal that you won't see on regular radios and meters,
the foxes signal is also constantly monitored by base stations to make sure they are not altering their output power or moving the vehicle to throw the hunters off the scent,
we have to inform them when we start or stop the engine, its often noticed and you will likely be called on why your signal changed,
conditions like eddie describes would cause havoc.
on fm it creates signal flutter that builds signal up as it slows down then goes the other way and starts speeding up as the signal fades back to normal signal,
on ssb it sounds more like a flanging effect,
i always thought it was the ionosphere causing the longer lasting slower effects,
when the sun is silent and theres no dx it happens very rarely or maybe not at all,
local signals here on fm are usually the same from day to day unless somebody change something,
we radio foxhunt on 27mhz, to keep fuel costs down we use an area of about 250 square miles, the furthest you could be away from the hunters is about 20 miles,
its all about signal strength, the experienced guys use different methods to see small changes in signal that you won't see on regular radios and meters,
the foxes signal is also constantly monitored by base stations to make sure they are not altering their output power or moving the vehicle to throw the hunters off the scent,
we have to inform them when we start or stop the engine, its often noticed and you will likely be called on why your signal changed,
conditions like eddie describes would cause havoc.
I have never experianced this phenomena on 27 mhz, are either of you near main road ways?
im a couple of miles from the motorway,
we thought about that but trucks are moving day and night, the multipath effect is usually very rare, people not near any motorway see the same effect, using fm makes it much easier to notice you will hear the shoosh shoosh flutter,
you could hear a noisy signal come up notably stronger or a slightly noisy signal come up to dead full quieting, i bet we have heared it more in the last 6 months than we have in the last 6 years.
we thought about that but trucks are moving day and night, the multipath effect is usually very rare, people not near any motorway see the same effect, using fm makes it much easier to notice you will hear the shoosh shoosh flutter,
you could hear a noisy signal come up notably stronger or a slightly noisy signal come up to dead full quieting, i bet we have heared it more in the last 6 months than we have in the last 6 years.
MrS, I've had the same place since 1963, and yes I live several miles from the main loop and freeways in this area, but I seldom sense much affect, such as bad bleed-over, if that is what you're getting at. I don't do the fox hunting here, and I don't know the techniques or the problems, so I've never considered those affect in my radio work. I do have noise and static at times however and when I turn my digital Field Strength Meter on it sometimes registers a flickering value of 1 one on a scale of over 1000. I have a 14' long coaxial antenna attached to the meter and it is generally set at maximum detection. I figure that response might be some big power on the freeway or the loop. The only thing particular I watch for here while monitoring for comparisons signals...is to avoid obvious DX conditions.
I have to say, that the videos themselves do impart a peculiar type of sound with some stations, and in particular with SSB signals. Sometimes I can tell a noticeable difference when I listen to some of my videos, and I'll say to my self, "...I should have tuned the radio a little better, the frequency sounds a little off." Sometimes I'm in the wrong mode or off frequency at my end. I don't know but what Bob heard is caused by the affects of my recording everything acoustically.
I was trying to do a video on TVI affects a while back and I was amazed that my video gear was not picking up the sound I was hearing plainly, I had to place the camera with the mic right up close to the source in order to pick-up the TVI produced noise. No rack gear here.
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Just a few points I wanted to comment on. These signal fluctuation Bob talks about are much more common then many CBers think. The more sensitive your signal measuring equipment is and the farther the station, the more frequent this is. I'm not surprised many people don't notice this on the typical S-meter but then again your typical S-meter has a difficult time discerning between the fractions of a db necessary for maximizing antenna gain.
The characteristics of these fluctuations are quite unusual and difficult to determine their source so I'm not even going to speculate as to what the cause is. I suspect there are several causes because the fluctuations can range from very small slow drifts in signal to rapid dips and peaks almost resembling the Doppler effect as an object approaches and passes you.
Marconi, That beacon signal on approximately 27.1450 is really a local remote control device. It could be anything from a kids toy, to an outdoor thermometer or wireless keyboard. Your signal is somewhat unusual because it's consistent and not short intermittent bursts however, the modulation of that signal screams remote control and it's on an RC frequency.
Never use this signal for testing antennas. It's much closer to you then it's signal would make you think. It also does not have any reliable signal polarization to it because of the small, often internal antenna these devices use.
The characteristics of these fluctuations are quite unusual and difficult to determine their source so I'm not even going to speculate as to what the cause is. I suspect there are several causes because the fluctuations can range from very small slow drifts in signal to rapid dips and peaks almost resembling the Doppler effect as an object approaches and passes you.
Marconi, That beacon signal on approximately 27.1450 is really a local remote control device. It could be anything from a kids toy, to an outdoor thermometer or wireless keyboard. Your signal is somewhat unusual because it's consistent and not short intermittent bursts however, the modulation of that signal screams remote control and it's on an RC frequency.
Never use this signal for testing antennas. It's much closer to you then it's signal would make you think. It also does not have any reliable signal polarization to it because of the small, often internal antenna these devices use.
Which particular video and at what time slot does it happen where you guys are seeing or hearing this flutuation or fluttering. ? i hope it isnt the SSB videos.
I been in radio a long time, personally I have never witnessed these flutuations. I only use Icom and Kenwoods who have attenuators and pre amps and sensitive recievers , I dont use a normal CB nor is my HP Spec Analyzer able to see any deviation in signal, even a RF voltmeter connected to a antenna. Only thing remotely close is I have seen being close to a road way where vehicles coming up and down road can skew readings, this was done while testing FS of antennas with some sensitive equipment. In fact I can tell you when a vehicle is coming down road without seeing it just by watching meter thats why i commented about living near roadway. I can set my watch to the signals I see, we broadcast on paltalk with camera on S meter and live audio anyone can check it out live for themselves. Only thing I can think it is is the aurora borealis
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I've been around for quite some time too and I've never witnessed the Aurora Borealis. However, I'm confident it exists because it has been seen by qualified people (those with working eyes and no reason to lie). I wish I could be confident it was a truck going down the highway or an overhead airplane. I can't because there are days when the effect is totally absent regardless of highway or air traffic.
I do notice it's more prominent at sun rise and sun set however it can happen at 2 AM also. There are times when it's so bad I can't communicate with a regular station that's 55 miles away from me. His signal is normally above the noise floor and easy to copy. When this phenomena occurs, the dips in his signal make me unable to copy everything he says. He also notices the same thing with my signal.
I've been seeing this for decades in different locations so I know I'm not alone. Much more on VHF and higher but be sure it happens on 27 MHz too. There have been days where I've dragged all my test gear out to the open field prepared to have a productive day testing antenna modifications, only to have "Mother nature" inform me that it wasn't going to happen that day. I need the distant signal to remain stable within a fraction of a db and there are plenty of times where it does not.
I do notice it's more prominent at sun rise and sun set however it can happen at 2 AM also. There are times when it's so bad I can't communicate with a regular station that's 55 miles away from me. His signal is normally above the noise floor and easy to copy. When this phenomena occurs, the dips in his signal make me unable to copy everything he says. He also notices the same thing with my signal.
I've been seeing this for decades in different locations so I know I'm not alone. Much more on VHF and higher but be sure it happens on 27 MHz too. There have been days where I've dragged all my test gear out to the open field prepared to have a productive day testing antenna modifications, only to have "Mother nature" inform me that it wasn't going to happen that day. I need the distant signal to remain stable within a fraction of a db and there are plenty of times where it does not.
to test the signal can we do it on AM?
can we use a signal generator and take it out as far as it can be heard like around 0 or a 1/2 s-unit and then with it on AM flip back and forth on the 2 antennas
can we use a signal generator and take it out as far as it can be heard like around 0 or a 1/2 s-unit and then with it on AM flip back and forth on the 2 antennas
I have notice in testing that strong bc station signals having an effect and causing much anguish in trying to do accurate sensitive test of signals. When your talking about a station 55 miles away what is the radio horizon between you? Have you ever tried this same person horizontal does it do the same thing? Bobs description sounds like signals being reflected somehow whether vehicle, airplane, train, boat, building, Stone Henge they are arriving out of Phase. At 55 mile there are so many things in between that are gonna affect that signal, I would expect to see some variation at times more importantly a rock solid test signal is also needed as in what ever is providing signal shouldnt vary its power if you are looking for fractions..
Marconis test arent showing barely legiable signals doing this he is showing variations in higher signals from people much closer than 55 miles. Trees blowing around antenna can make a signal vary. A person walking around antenna I have seen have an effect, have most people seen that? probaly not because they never had anything hooked up that is sensitive enuff to see it but it does happen. On VHF when people are mobile it is more apparent picket fencing, etc a wall will block vhf signals.
A carrier on Am is the same as FM, when the modulation is introduced just like on ssb is where it is no gud.