Mobile Power Question

[Greyghost555]

Good afternoon,

I have done some digging but I am coming up short on answers for my questions. I am hoping that someone can give me some pointers or send me in the right direction. I'm sure the information is out there, I am just getting lost in the sea of it.

So the setup I am running is a RCI-2970N3. Its in a 03 corolla. (Pics of install uploaded in a introductory post) The alternator is a 80A unit and an upgrade is on the list, just haven't pulled the trigger on anything. I would like to get some clarification on what what best route is before I start buying parts.

When I key down, the idle drops on my car. This is at full power on the transmitter. I know that RF can mess with the newer cars but the lights dim on the radio as well which leads me to believe that it is a power issue and not an RF issue with the electronic controls in the car. What is your guys recommendation on correcting a power issue like this? My thoughts are that alternator should be first, but would you also recommend extra batteries as well in the trunk?

Thank you for reading and your time.

-Greyghost 555

 

[Eldorado828]

Good afternoon,

I have done some digging but I am coming up short on answers for my questions. I am hoping that someone can give me some pointers or send me in the right direction. I'm sure the information is out there, I am just getting lost in the sea of it.

So the setup I am running is a RCI-2970N3. Its in a 03 corolla. (Pics of install uploaded in a introductory post) The alternator is a 80A unit and an upgrade is on the list, just haven't pulled the trigger on anything. I would like to get some clarification on what what best route is before I start buying parts.

When I key down, the idle drops on my car. This is at full power on the transmitter. I know that RF can mess with the newer cars but the lights dim on the radio as well which leads me to believe that it is a power issue and not an RF issue with the electronic controls in the car. What is your guys recommendation on correcting a power issue like this? My thoughts are that alternator should be first, but would you also recommend extra batteries as well in the trunk?

Thank you for reading and your time.

-Greyghost 555

Please elaborate on your power wiring to the radio. What size cable, where are you pulling power from? Antenna system? How your rig was tuned, is it clean? I ask because all these things make a difference in the complete system.

There's lots of brains in here but we need you to paint a more clear picture.

 

[338_MtRushmore]

The idle is dropping because the alternator is charging hard when it detects the low voltage. A larger alternator would put a larger load on the engine, so theoretically it should idle down more, but it depends on the fuel programing. Really need to know the voltage at the radio during keydown.

If you aren't long winded it may be ok, but it may not. Just need to check voltages to see what's going on.

 

[cralt]

Hopefully you ran the positive AND negative strait to the battery.

Saw your install pics. Very clean install

 

[Eldorado828]

Good afternoon,

I have done some digging but I am coming up short on answers for my questions. I am hoping that someone can give me some pointers or send me in the right direction. I'm sure the information is out there, I am just getting lost in the sea of it.

So the setup I am running is a RCI-2970N3. Its in a 03 corolla. (Pics of install uploaded in a introductory post) The alternator is a 80A unit and an upgrade is on the list, just haven't pulled the trigger on anything. I would like to get some clarification on what what best route is before I start buying parts.

When I key down, the idle drops on my car. This is at full power on the transmitter. I know that RF can mess with the newer cars but the lights dim on the radio as well which leads me to believe that it is a power issue and not an RF issue with the electronic controls in the car. What is your guys recommendation on correcting a power issue like this? My thoughts are that alternator should be first, but would you also recommend extra batteries as well in the trunk?

Thank you for reading and your time.

-Greyghost 555

My apologies,
I just realized it was your install we saw the other day. It's been crazy and my mind isn't all there.

Looking at that above answers most questions Iasked. I'd be in line with Mtrushmore.
The BIG 3 upgrade as we call it in the car audio world. Look it up on YouTube. Battery(ies), cable, and alternator upgrade are a must.

 

[Greyghost555]

Please elaborate on your power wiring to the radio. What size cable, where are you pulling power from? Antenna system? How your rig was tuned, is it clean? I ask because all these things make a difference in the complete system.

There's lots of brains in here but we need you to paint a more clear picture.

Power to the radio is direct from the battery with 8 gauge wire. (positive and negative) Antenna system is a Wilson 1000 trunk mount kit. Trunk is bonded to deck with 1/2" flat braided wire. No other bonding done as of yet. SWR at 1.4 across the band. Radio was tuned at Bells CB in Florida. Only thing that was done to the radio was a peak, tune and 11 meter band frequencies.

The idle is dropping because the alternator is charging hard when it detects the low voltage. A larger alternator would put a larger load on the engine, so theoretically it should idle down more, but it depends on the fuel programing. Really need to know the voltage at the radio during keydown.

If you aren't long winded it may be ok, but it may not. Just need to check voltages to see what's going on.

I will get a multimeter on it tonight after I get off work. See what is going on and update with my findings.

 

[Greyghost555]

My apologies,
I just realized it was your install we saw the other day. It's been crazy and my mind isn't all there.

Looking at that above answers most questions Iasked. I'd be in line with Mtrushmore.
The BIG 3 upgrade as we call it in the car audio world. Look it up on YouTube. Battery(ies), cable, and alternator upgrade are a must.

It’s all good man. No apologies needed. You where correct in the fact that I did leave some details out. I’m new to radios at least the more technical side of things and forums in general so bear with me. I assume I will ask questions that have been asked a million times here. I am slowly but surely acquiring reference material in my quest to understanding radios, antennas, and the supporting equipment. I will look into the big three as you called it and get the ball rolling.

 

[Eldorado828]

Here's a quick look, and sonic isn't very far from you. Not saying you should buy from them but kind of cool they're in your neighborhood.

 

[Slowmover]

Hopefully you ran the positive AND negative strait to the battery.

Saw your install pics. Very clean install

1) Fused to BATT +
2). Shortest NEG to vehicle hardpoint.

www.k0bg.com

.

 

[Slowmover]

Good afternoon,

I have done some digging but I am coming up short on answers for my questions. I am hoping that someone can give me some pointers or send me in the right direction. I'm sure the information is out there, I am just getting lost in the sea of it.

So the setup I am running is a RCI-2970N3. Its in a 03 corolla. (Pics of install uploaded in a introductory post) The alternator is a 80A unit and an upgrade is on the list, just haven't pulled the trigger on anything. I would like to get some clarification on what what best route is before I start buying parts.

When I key down, the idle drops on my car. This is at full power on the transmitter. I know that RF can mess with the newer cars but the lights dim on the radio as well which leads me to believe that it is a power issue and not an RF issue with the electronic controls in the car. What is your guys recommendation on correcting a power issue like this? My thoughts are that alternator should be first, but would you also recommend extra batteries as well in the trunk?

Thank you for reading and your time.

-Greyghost 555

Nothing wrong with doing the Big Three (I have, and will again).

But it’s not first (in this instance)

The ANCOR (Marinco) Table:

Conductors Sized (AWG) For 3% Voltage Drop

Should be an earlier stop.

Total circuit length is Positive + Negative.
Amp Draw is maximum possible (from that gear; fuse ratings).

Then, as losses are associated with any terminations or insertions, upsize cabling a tad.

— ANCOR FR-Split Loom & FR zip ties
— cushioned ADEL clamps
(Secure run with slack on either side of firewall; close by).
— extra nice firewall grommet (my preference has morphed into using cable glands).

This is overkill, but the right kind. We want amps/volts “flowing” without being constrained, even at highest draw. 55-mph on a road with curves engineered for 75-mph.

Again:

www.k0bg.com

This power install-type is Installation of a rilly big antenna so ferrites or filters at both ends is insurance. (May not help, either).

Test first, as may want/need nothing.

A few wraps thru an extra-fat toroid (Palomar Engineers catalog will get you in trouble), and a formal 12V noise filter at radio end (cube-type; same source) are adaptations I’ve made. A David Navone filter, is another and there are commercial filters for genset/commercial (big expense)

(Another B3 danger to your wallet is CE AUTO SUPPLY)

.

 

[Shadetree Mechanic]

Permatex makes a silicone dielectric grease that works great. Put it on the connections to seal out moisture and air to prevent corosion. I use it on everything that has connections, even battery terminals.

I got a tube of dielectric grease in a box of snow plow parts that someone gave me one time. I read the tube an it was the answer to a problem that I had been fighting for years. I always thought that a clean connection is a good connection, and it is. But when you put dielectric grease on it, the part that comes together will push the grease out of the way. The remaining grease all around the part that makes contact seals out the environment. I also squirt the grease into the crimp connectors before I insert the wire. Doing it this way, the connections will never fail.

 

[M0GVZ]

Hopefully you ran the positive AND negative strait to the battery.

NEVER run negative straight to the battery. Run it to a point near where the main battery negative cable connects to the vehicle body/chassis.

 

[Greyghost555]

1) Fused to BATT +
2). Shortest NEG to vehicle hardpoint.

www.k0bg.com

.

NEVER run negative straight to the battery. Run it to a point near where the main battery negative cable connects to the vehicle body/chassis.

I had done some reading over at k0gb.com and was a little confused on this. He has two trains of thought going when talking about batteries and power it seems like. Extra batteries get grounded to frame, radios get grounded at the same point the radio gets grounded.

 

[Greyghost555]

The idle is dropping because the alternator is charging hard when it detects the low voltage. A larger alternator would put a larger load on the engine, so theoretically it should idle down more, but it depends on the fuel programing. Really need to know the voltage at the radio during keydown.

If you aren't long winded it may be ok, but it may not. Just need to check voltages to see what's going on.

Okay so I know I said I would do this Saturday but I decided to drink beer when I got home. I pulled out my meter and did a few tests.

Car off: 12.9 volts
Key down at full power car off: 10.5-11.0 volts

Car on: 13.8-14.0 volts
Key down at full power car on: same as above. This is measured at the Anderson connector at the back of the radio. Before this test I moved the negative side of the power line for the radio from the negative terminal to to the ground lug on the vehicle.

I think its time for some more batteries and some bigger wires. I have been looking around for bigger alternators but it looks like options for this model of car is pretty limited.

 

[Shadetree Mechanic]

Definitely need bigger wires. Wire is normally sized for amperage. But the voltage drop at that rating is too much for something critical like a high powered radio or amplifier. Car stereo guys go to great lengths to have as little voltage drop as possible. The voltage drop that is acceptable to you will determine the wire size. Definitely do the big 3 and for me, 2awg wire would not be out of the question.