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MULTIBAND VERTICAL HF ANTENNAS
- Thread starter TonyV225
- Start date
Normally I think people make more of the proximity issue with window line than need be, but with a G5RV, it's a radiating element by design so the proximity will effect the pattern more.
Like Doc was implying, just hang it in a free space vacuum at about 235 feet over a perfectly conductive ground plane and hang one every 45 degrees so you can have perfect pattern coverage too. ;-)
Bottom line, put as much wire in the air as you can fit on your property. More wire == more better, particularly for 160/75/40. You will only really know how it works when you plug it in.
I've spent a lot of wasted time over thinking and over engineering antennas and run into people who just about toss wire into a tree like Charlie Brown's Christmas and their setup works. Some thought helps, some luck helps, and some wire always helps.
Like Doc was implying, just hang it in a free space vacuum at about 235 feet over a perfectly conductive ground plane and hang one every 45 degrees so you can have perfect pattern coverage too. ;-)
Bottom line, put as much wire in the air as you can fit on your property. More wire == more better, particularly for 160/75/40. You will only really know how it works when you plug it in.
I've spent a lot of wasted time over thinking and over engineering antennas and run into people who just about toss wire into a tree like Charlie Brown's Christmas and their setup works. Some thought helps, some luck helps, and some wire always helps.
it depends on what you want the antenna to do. if you want to rag chew "local" then an inverted vee (or flat top) or an NVIS type may be best.
if you want to work some Dx, a BTV is better choice due to it's low radiation angle.
any antenna is a compromise and any short verticle on HF will not perform like a beam.
i have 1500 feet of radials under my ground mounted BTV and it performs great,...... but not as good as my tri-bander. but the BTV price is much lower too.
if you want to work some Dx, a BTV is better choice due to it's low radiation angle.
any antenna is a compromise and any short verticle on HF will not perform like a beam.
i have 1500 feet of radials under my ground mounted BTV and it performs great,...... but not as good as my tri-bander. but the BTV price is much lower too.
A little off topic, please excuse me...
I have a 102' G5RV here that is fed with the 350 ohm ladder line and 50 ohm coax combo. The more I think about it, the more I just want to cut the 50 ohm coax off and feed it directly with the 350 ohm. The antenna protests whenever I try to tune it to an acceptable level for 80 meter. My configuration is not ideal and my thinking is that my tuner would handle the direct feed from the ladder line, vs. the ladder line/50 ohm coax combo, because the 50 ohm coax is very reactive. Then I'd have a simple random length wire fed with ladder line...Which makes me wonder why I would even run a G5RV.
I've heard a few guys that have done this that have bought commercial G5RVs. I do not and never did understand the necessity for the G5RV to have 50 ohm coax, other than the convenience factor of having it come into the shack. The only thing that is stopping me from cutting off the coax all together is that I have another antenna already fed with ladder line coming into the shack and into the tuner. If I had another tuner capable of tuning ladder line (so I would not have to unhook every time or put both feeds on the same posts), I would do it right now.
In an attempt to get back on topic somewhat, I'll leave ya with this point: A good multiband antenna includes ladder line, the longest wire you have, height and a tuner.
I have a 102' G5RV here that is fed with the 350 ohm ladder line and 50 ohm coax combo. The more I think about it, the more I just want to cut the 50 ohm coax off and feed it directly with the 350 ohm. The antenna protests whenever I try to tune it to an acceptable level for 80 meter. My configuration is not ideal and my thinking is that my tuner would handle the direct feed from the ladder line, vs. the ladder line/50 ohm coax combo, because the 50 ohm coax is very reactive. Then I'd have a simple random length wire fed with ladder line...Which makes me wonder why I would even run a G5RV.
I've heard a few guys that have done this that have bought commercial G5RVs. I do not and never did understand the necessity for the G5RV to have 50 ohm coax, other than the convenience factor of having it come into the shack. The only thing that is stopping me from cutting off the coax all together is that I have another antenna already fed with ladder line coming into the shack and into the tuner. If I had another tuner capable of tuning ladder line (so I would not have to unhook every time or put both feeds on the same posts), I would do it right now.
In an attempt to get back on topic somewhat, I'll leave ya with this point: A good multiband antenna includes ladder line, the longest wire you have, height and a tuner.
Essentially you turn it into a 102' doublet. I did just that and it was a great performance improvement. I'd still be running that antenna but I managed to break it trying to get it better positioned.
949Jake,
The reason for that ladderline and coax combination is for impedance matching a 5/8 wave length doublet antenna for 20 meters to a 'standard' 50 ohm input transmitter. While I'm sure the ease of getting the thing into the house was part of his decision to use that combination of feed lines, Mr. Varney's main reason was that was what he happened to have on hand to do the matching with.
The idea that a 'G5RV' is a good multiband antenna was NOT a factor in Mr. Varney making it. The idea that a 'G5RV' is an 'ideal' multiband antenna is nonsense, it certainly isn't. It is convenient though, which prompted it's current popularity.
Parallel feed lines are not all that difficult to manage. It is different though, so can't be done the "usual old way" as with coax. Personally, I like the stuff and think it's got more adaptability than coax. Then again, everybody does not have a need for that characteristic so it isn't 'best' for everyone. Oh well, I like cauliflower too, big deal...
- 'Doc
(it's really the butter it gets smothered in...sshhhh)
The reason for that ladderline and coax combination is for impedance matching a 5/8 wave length doublet antenna for 20 meters to a 'standard' 50 ohm input transmitter. While I'm sure the ease of getting the thing into the house was part of his decision to use that combination of feed lines, Mr. Varney's main reason was that was what he happened to have on hand to do the matching with.
The idea that a 'G5RV' is a good multiband antenna was NOT a factor in Mr. Varney making it. The idea that a 'G5RV' is an 'ideal' multiband antenna is nonsense, it certainly isn't. It is convenient though, which prompted it's current popularity.
Parallel feed lines are not all that difficult to manage. It is different though, so can't be done the "usual old way" as with coax. Personally, I like the stuff and think it's got more adaptability than coax. Then again, everybody does not have a need for that characteristic so it isn't 'best' for everyone. Oh well, I like cauliflower too, big deal...
- 'Doc
(it's really the butter it gets smothered in...sshhhh)
Not that it makes any difference at all, but once upon a time, I talked to Mr. Varney on 20 meters. Didn't know who he was at the time or I could have asked a whole bunch of questions he probably got sick and tired of hearing later. Bragging? Nope, bunch of other people can say the same thing.
- 'Doc
- 'Doc
Thanks as always for the comments W5LZ.
Maybe some day I'll figure it out...
I have some 350 ohm that is fairly easy to handle, however some 450 ohm that I bought from wireman 5 years ago I have to argue with and fight nearly every other day. It's excellent quality stuff and I really do like it, it just tends to give me fits. It is the "window" type.
Maybe some day I'll figure it out...
Tony, what did you put up to get on 75/80, since i hear you checking into the breakfast club on 3.973.00?