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My antenna system...

Hello guys, I know and understand alot of you guys didnt believe me that this stuff really did work...this isnt the first time Ive heard this same old song..

And I dont think theres anything thats been mentioned here that I havent heard before in the past 3 years or so, about this wire and everything...

The pic Captain Kilowatt has there is what it looks like also..the guys here all call it pole to pole wire..

But for the record, I did talk to Coolgradie, Western Australia a few times with it, and the guy I talked to was the welding machine, Im sure you guys know or have talked to him before...

But anyways, the wire is all history, long story, but its gone...

I now have my Imax here at the shack, and havent used a choke on it yet....
I posted a update in another thread, forgot about having this one or I would have put it here...I didnt say much about the wire in it, but thats not important now, but I was going to do some test on it and see what the loss was, but thats all history now....


But like I say I have the Imax in the yard its against my back porch in the corner and I used some metal straps on it, so its not going anywhere and its 21ft up to the bottom of the antenna.....

Im running RG 213 coax on it right now...no choke....this is what I wanted to ask you guys about, Ive did the reading on the choke and how the length needs to be from 18-21ft and I was wondering what length of coax do I need to go with for a choke ?....

And what diameter does it need to be ?....

I live in a trl park and also have one across the road...so no this isnt a pretty site....Ive ran my amp a little but its not doing very much since its a HD and my Cobra 2000 dont have enough to push it....

The swr is 1.1 and less around the band, and with the amp on its a 1.1...

By the way, I cant believe you guys, why in the world would you all think I would have lied to you about this, really surprised me when I read that..
 
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Oatmeal said:
...............

By the way, I cant believe you guys, why in the world would you all think I would have lied to you about this, really surprised me when I read that..
Click to expand...

Oatmeal, I may have questioned your long line setup, but that was because I have heard other stories about similar setups. I've also asked others to show some pictures of such setups, and no one ever did, including you as best I know.

I just wanted to see some pictures of what you were talking about.
 
10-4, well about all thats left of it now is 2 splices I made out there....

Maybe I can splice a piece of coax on it out side here and show you how I used it...

Guys I think someone here or on one of the other forums said it was 75 ohm wire, it may have been I dont no how to check it to see...but this stuff, you maybe able to see it been used still yet in some areas...

It hang on the telephone poles and goes from pole to pole along the roads..
It has a black plastic cover on it with a guy wire running up the side....some times you wont see this steel guy wire because it maybe tied off somewhere, but thats what the steel wire is for, to tie it off and it keeps the tention off the splice, and if the black plastic cover is peeled off it, then you should look for the aluminum layer, it will be the next payer down....

But Ive got a piece out side that I was using and Ill splice a piece of coax on it to show you how I was using it....

I really have no idea how it works, but alot of the guys here uses this wire..we run it up the mountain, and we lay it on the ground, and as we make a splice we connect the center wires of each piece, I used a wire nut, and this is the hot as you know, and the outer aluminum cover is the ground side of it..and after you make this splice it looks like a up side down " V "...

They are other ways of doing it but alot of us does it this way, the stuff dont cost much and its easy.....only thing thats hard about it is, getting the aluminum housing off the wire you have to use heat to get it off, I use a butane torch, this is why in some of the pics the foam will run ....

But what you do, you cut the outer layer off which is the black plastic stuff, and the guy wire you just pull it back, you will need this later, but anyways, cut the plastic stuff back, so you will be looking at the aluminum cover, then take a tube cutter and cut what ever you need to off, then get a torch and heat this section up, once it gets hot, take a pair of pliers and pull this off....and once you do then you will see the insulated white foam, this protects the center wire..

Once you get the foam off the center wire is what you see next, this is a solid copper wire its about a 12ga wire..its has some of the white foam stuff still on it, and you have to get this stuff off to get a good connection...I used some fine sand paper to do this.....but once you clean it off, and then you take the 2 pieces and connect the center wires, just twist them together, then check the splice making sure it is a good conncetion, and put a wirenut on it, then connect the aluminum pieces togetrher...will look like a up side down V, and I used 2 water clamps to hold them together....and check to make sure it is good....

I used to use black tape on all this, but the tape seems to hold water, so this time I didnt use any tape, just smeared some diaelectric grease or silicone on it, on what was exposed to the weather, which after I used the wire nut it pretty much covered all the wire...and now this is where the guy wire comes into play, you just pull the 2 pieces of it coming off the 2 pieces you just spliced together and tie them together and I used a gurney clamp on mine or just wrapped/twisted them together.....actually if it was in a spot where the wire was been pulled or had tention on it I used a gurney clamp so it wouldnt come apart or not put tention on the splice in anyway.....

And at the antenna I used to just splice the coax to the wire, center wire to center and shield to shield.....and run a ground off the grd side and run it to a grd rod I had, at the top I used a 5ft grd rod...and at the shack, hook it up the same way, here I used a 5/8s solid grd rod, which was 8ft long, and drove 7'6" in the ground and I grd the wire to this, and used brass clamps...

This last time, I used the wire I must have had the perfect combination...
Because the swr was a 1.1 and less swr....on the lower end of the band which is channel 1 and below, the swr was running a 1.3 to a 1.5 swr......and on channel 20 it dropped out to a flat swr, it ran like this all the way up to 27.705, and as it hit the 28.000 band the swr would drop, in which I hold a Tech ticket and just talked on the 28.3250 area up to a 28.490 parts of the band and the swr was a 1.3 in this area of the band.....

I know its hard for you guys to understand this, or maybe you all dont see how this stuff works, be trust me it did work and I talked on it for 3 years....and this stuff cost me 70.00 bucks for 700ft of it, and it was used wire when I got it, and then I just had 4 splices in line, which the splices didnt seem to hurt anything....there was better ways of making the splices, but I choice to go this route, since I didnt own the land it was on, and I didnt want to make the perment splice...but thats pretty much it.......
 
Ill get some pics of this stuff and post them soon as I can get a camera working..

But the things Ive learned from fooling with this stuff and talking to some of the guys here who runs this stuff, Ive learned quite abot about this wire and working with it over the years..

The first year, I got this wire off my friend, I had went up on the ridge above me here and found a place to put it...so I took the rolls of wire up the mountain, and started unrolling it coming down the mountain...it took most of the day doing this....but anyways, I had roughly right at 600ft of it...

So after I hooked it all up I did have some swr, and I kept adding the wire on the shack end, and adding the coax and I got it down, and I talked on it for the first year, then I had some of the parts of the 11m band the swr was good, and other parts the swr was a little higher than I liked it to be, so I just talked mostly on the end of the band the low swr was on, which was along in there channel 20 thru 27.505 areas...

Then the 2nd year I had this wire, this is when I desided to move my antenna, so when I did I added about 25-30ft of the wire up there and when I hooked everything back up I the went to the LMR 400 coax, used this on both ends, by the way I had 24ft of this coax, for the top and at the shack, in which by the way the antenna was just at 21ft to the bottom of the antenna ....it never was any higher than this....

This was when the swr had dropped out of the wire, and the swr on the lower end of the band was running a 1.3 to a 1.5 on below channel 1, in which didnt bother me since I didnt talk down there.....and from channel 20 up through 70 the swr was running a flat swr, on this part of the band...and from the 28.0000 frequency to 28.5000, the swr was running a 1.3 and a little less..

But anyways, that 25-30ft I added up at the antenna was all it needed to get the swr to drop like it did....I dont think going to the LMR 400 coax, had much to do with this because the coax I was using was RG 213 coax, smae with which was 24ft and the antenna was still just 21ft off the ground...and this was when it all came together, it all was talking really well, and it lasted until I had a forrest fire here last year, I wasnt home when this happened...

But the fire burnt up close to 250ft of the wire, in which it was on the ground..
The fire burnt up this ridge right to the antenna, burnt the coax up, the grd wires, and they got it out about 25ft behind the antenna...I didnt no there was a fire up there, and the way I found it, I had turned the radio on and checked the swr and it was in the red, even tho I checked everything here at the shack and when I walked the line thats when I found this..

Even tho since then I tried to use what wire didnt get burnt up, have never been able to get the right length of wire, havent been able to even get the swr below a 2.0, didnt matter what I did or tried, nothing worked....I even check the antenna, and the wire that did survive the fire, it didnt matter nothing I did worked....and the antenna was ok....I even moved the wire, and put new coax, grd wires, ect on it, but the swr never dropped below a 2.0 again..

But since all this, had was working on putting it back on the mountain where it was, even tho I found just about what wire I needed, I had went back there this past week to finish the job and set it all back up, but as I walked the mountain, found that someone had pulled all the wire off the mountain and it was all wodded up.....but have no idea who may have done this, but since then I hooked the antenna up here at the shack...

But anyways, this is what Ive learned about fooling with this wire...
For some reason, it didnt matter what short lengths of wire I used, I never was able to get the swr to drop below the 2.0, and I had tried ever trick I knew, and none worked.....so if someone out there happens to find some of this wire and tries using it, then maybe you can find out where I messed up at with trying to use a shorter run of wire than the 625ft of it I was using for those years...

But Ill see about getting some pics of what I have out side thats still here maybe I can give you a idea how I used it and what it looks like...
 
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I have been in contact with Oatmeal through PMs and at least one phone conversation.
His antenna setup was not his brainchild, but he was entirely dependent upon others. Whether it was done right or wrong is a thing that is confusing to him simply because his ability to actually use it leads him to misunderstand the claims to the contrary here and elsewhere.
Now the real task is to try to help him put something together properly.
Homer
 
HomerBB said:
I have been in contact with Oatmeal through PMs and at least one phone conversation.
His antenna setup was not his brainchild, but he was entirely dependent upon others. Whether it was done right or wrong is a thing that is confusing to him simply because his ability to actually use it leads him to misunderstand the claims to the contrary here and elsewhere.
Now the real task is to try to help him put something together properly.
Homer
Click to expand...

I applaud the effort. There are things I would have done differently, but it seems to have worked for him, and that is all that matters in the end, is it not?


The DB
 
I know alot of you all dont no how this worked, and no I cant explain it either...all I now do know is I hooked it up like the others did here, and I got it to working.....and when I moved the antenna and added the footage I did, thats when the swr dropped and it all came together....

I cant explain it and Im not going to try to...all I no is it worked, and I enjoyed talking alot of dx on it while it was up there...

And all the guys Ive talked to over the last 3 years, well this is what I was talking on and running a little power...

Homerbb, thanks for the help and the advice you have gave me through all this stuff...and hope to talk at yea sometime in dx....
 
I have tried to help him with suggestions. I recommended considering ladder line, but as in all things there are those who have the mind set that if it is 11 meters then it shouldn't even be considered, or unless it is a dipole or some other wire antenna there is no use using it. None of the claims, counterclaims, suggestions, and counter suggestions would prevent many of us from considering all the points of discussion for solutions and running with what we considered the best choice, but oatmeal does not know many of the things we do, and has to think in terms of what he does know, which at this point is:

1. His buddies that helped him run the previous line up the hill were his guide for the doable feedline. Well, it was not kosher, but miraculously it got results, and, the Holy Grail, SWR, was low. So this is the extent of show-me-so-I'll-know.

2. He lacks both the skill set, the knowledge base, and the practical experience to do more than follow someone else' lead, or simply buy a run of recommended coax with the ends already on it for his feedline.
Without trying to disparage anyone, especially my distant friend, Oatmeal, I am simply trying to provide perspective for why He is having difficulty relating to some of what has been said, and what we are asking him about.

He did not ask me to say anything, and I hope he isn't upset because I did.

Maybe some of us can start again and advise him of what it is we would consider doing in his place and see if we can dial him in.

As I understand it, toward the front and sides of his place are nearby neighbors that he is concerned with running RF into their homes, and an extensive network of power lines that defeat any ears under 3 or more S-units. Usually more.
Additionally, he is concerned with upsetting the landlord should he try to raise an larger antenna type than an Imax 2k over twenty or so feet on a pole. Guying isn't an option.
This leads to why he put his GP 5/8 back on the mountain and solicited help to get it there. It comes as a great surprise to me how it worked at all over that distance the way it was spliced (knotted?) together, but it did, which has added to his perplexity.

So, if it were me, and I did not have, nor could I get any real hardline, heliax, whichever, I would either make or buy a twin lead ladder line and suspend it from point A to point B and deal with the impedance differences through transformation techniques as required. This would be the most loss free answer for a several hundred feet long run even for an 11 meters vertical or Yagi setup.
There hasn't been any other suggestions any better in several forums, yet, at least not clearly so.
Given his skill level even this is intimidating, but he really wants to get on the air with a working system.

Anyone?
 
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Oatmeal said:
I know alot of you all dont no how this worked, and no I cant explain it either...all I now do know is I hooked it up like the others did here, and I got it to working.....and when I moved the antenna and added the footage I did, thats when the swr dropped and it all came together....

I cant explain it and Im not going to try to...all I no is it worked, and I enjoyed talking alot of dx on it while it was up there...

And all the guys Ive talked to over the last 3 years, well this is what I was talking on and running a little power...

Homerbb, thanks for the help and the advice you have gave me through all this stuff...and hope to talk at yea sometime in dx....
Click to expand...

Sure, no problem.
 
Oatmeal said:
I know alot of you all dont no how this worked, and no I cant explain it either...all I now do know is I hooked it up like the others did here, and I got it to working.....and when I moved the antenna and added the footage I did, thats when the swr dropped and it all came together....

I cant explain it and Im not going to try to...all I no is it worked, and I enjoyed talking alot of dx on it while it was up there...

And all the guys Ive talked to over the last 3 years, well this is what I was talking on and running a little power...

Homerbb, thanks for the help and the advice you have gave me through all this stuff...and hope to talk at yea sometime in dx....
Click to expand...

Oatmeal, I had a 105' of RG8x coax once that was very lossy due to it being old and having water contaminate the shield pretty badly. The cable still showed a very good match, in fact it was too good. I had no SWR and a bandwidth from 10 to 17 meters. The line connected to a Starduster and my radio receiver was always very quiet operating, so much so that I could often copy stations in the distance that my nearby neighbor radio buddies could barely hear or not hear at all. IMO, these are the symptoms of an attenuated and lossy feed line and it sounds a lot like you've described.

I did the test using a dummy load with an RF meter and my radio, just like I described to you a while back. I could put 20 watts into the load and see less than 1-2 watts at the other end. Even with this huge difference I could still work this setup almost undetected by any means. It don't take much power to broadcast a very long way, even skip right along with my local buds. IMO the big problem is clutter on the Earth's surface, terrain, and receiver noise. I believed you talked about your setup showing somewhat similar symptoms.
 
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Got you guys a update on this stuff....

I took pics of the pole to pole wire I used to run, not sure how to get them posted in this thread but have them in my profile ....

For you all who didn't think this worked, have a news flash for yea, it did work...

Any of you guys who talks to Stop_Sign in West Virginia in dx, ask him what he is talking on...see what he tells you...I had a GP on my wire, he runs a set of beams on his...

Stop Sign is just one of the guys who uses this wire, Johnny Johnny Ringo he is another one who does and he uses a Moonraker 4 on his,...

I sure do mise using this wire and stuff, but someday I'm sure I will use it again, hope so anyways or something better, 73's...
 
Hello everyone, since all that above happened with that wire, ect, have moved from that location, the place we bought and moved into the guy is a ham operator as well, and he has some of that wire like I had at the other place out here......I no longer use that wire, since I lost just about all of it in a forrest fire few years ago, even tho I tested the other wire, the fire still took its toll on it, so just did away with it...

But all the above I told you about my story, ect was true, I had plans on checking it out to see how much loss it had in the wire, ect.....I even had plans on getting a Maco 3 element beam and putting back there, but all that fell through when the woods caught fire, and couldn't find anymore that kinda wire to replace what was bad.....

I understand you guys, not believing what I said about it, which is fine with me, but thing is, it did work for me and I ran a kw through the wire and worked alot of good dx on it........but anyways, just wanted to say it did work and what I said here was no lie, believe what you want, since then I have moved on and up graded my lic's and got into Ham radio.....

If some of you would like, I can get pics of this wire I have here and show you what it is, ...
 
Hello Oatmeal, long time.
I think we all figured out it was big trunk line you were using for your setup and some of us did not understand how you were splicing the connections at first.
It was not that we thought you were lieing about what you were using.
We just did not understand.
In extremely long runs like that even if the SWR was reading good at the transmitter you probably had some loss by the time you got to the antenna.
The only way to tell that was to do the test that Eddie was talking about were you read the power out right at the transmitter and then read the power at the very end of the transmission line.
Even with line loss it sounds like it worked for you and I have no problem that it did and do not doubt that you were describing what you had as best as you could.
And to get your signal up on top of the hill you did what you needed to do.
That was also one hell of a deal on that length of trunk line!
Would your losses have been less with better connectors other than wire nuts?
Yes probably but if that is what you got, then that is what you got.
I am sure you had a few impedance bumps in the line but it worked.
Even if you were only getting a few watts up to the antenna site it worked for you and that is what counts.
Sorry to hear about the fires and some one pulling down your wire.
I am glad to hear you did not give up and got your license.
Best of luck!
Hope to hear you on the bands.

73
Jeff
 
There was/is better ways to make the connections, I used the wire nuts on mine for the center wire, and water clamps for the ground side...some of the other guys made there own connectors and put there wire together which worked really slick how they did it......the wire I ran is short compared to what someothers is using, some is 1500-2500ft long going up a mountain side..

It is really neat how this all works, I can't explain it, I just described it best I could, some of the other guys running it can, but longest contact I made on what I was running at the time was western Australia...

U all who has a long run from the antenna to the shack, this works great, don't no what the wire is called, but it will work, people here calls it pole to pole, it is some sorta old tv cable wire, never seen anything like this stuff before,....someday I may go with another long run to a antenna, probably have to use something else since I dont see that wire anymore laying around....
 

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