"Name Brand" Mobile antennas, really "better"?

[JesseJamesNEC]

I am NOT trying to disrespect any builders of antennas out there by this post, Okay, the reason I am posting this is because I have been doing some "research" on antennas overall, but something I find strange is the following....
All builders claim that their antenna is the best, ok, I say that their antenna may be best for THEIR setup, no one can say whether it will be the best on other setups, there are too many different styles of vehicles out there for a "Joe Shmo" antenna to work just perfect on say a Toyota Corolla and work the exact same on let's say a suburban! My point of all this is just one thing, and I know I will take heat for saying this but it has bothered me for years, PRICE! Think about it, you have for instance a double coil antenna it has "X" amount of turns on it, and you can get it from a truck stop for 29.95, ok, MAYBE the materials used aren't EXACTLY what the "builders" use but close, yet you pay well over $100.00 for the builder's antenna, I have been in radio a LONG time now, and have truthfully used some of these "Truck Stop" antennas a put some big watts thru them, wiorked just fine, receive was great! why do we pay so much for the "Name Brand" antennas??? Just wondering! remember a 102" whip is a whoppin' $20.00 at Rat Shack! Please think about what I am saying before you answer.

 

[Robb]

DO you have enough of these 'clones' to write a review and point out that they are pretty much the same thing regardless of mfr?
I would like to read what you know about the coil antennas - if you would write it up.
You know: Nugatron, Mr Coily, Predator, Ranger, etc...

 

[mrgumby]

this is gonna be good!

 

[nat19]

I think a 102' whip is an exellent antenna. Other than the fact that the hit every thing and sway a lot I love them and currently use one.

 

[JesseJamesNEC]

DO you have enough of these 'clones' to write a review and point out that they are pretty much the same thing regardless of mfr?
I would like to read what you know about the coil antennas - if you would write it up.
You know: Nugatron, Mr Coily, Predator, Ranger, etc...

Well, truth is I have owned a 102" whip, Predator 10K, a couple "truck stop" coil antennas, my point was not so much that any particular antenna is superior OR inferior, my main point is that the builders are basically pricing themselves out of reach for many, not everyone can just spring for 100+ dollars to "test" antennas to see if it MIGHT work for them! I know I am NOT about to spend 600-700 dollars to "compare" antennas! That to me is a waste of money. All I was saying is that there is no sure fire way of saying one antenna is better than another! If I put for instance a Mr. Coily antenna on my single cab pickup truck and compare it to 3 other antennas, then all you are getting is the results on MY setup, the same antennas on YOUR vehicle may not radiate the same pattern etc. so essentially many tests could be considered bogus. sort of like when an antenna designer raves about how much gain his beam has in "freespace", doesn't mean a heck of alot in the real world, sure it gives you a "starting point" but that's all. Another example is "circular polarization" , Jo Gunn claims their V series is circular polarization, it is not since the elements are not fed out of phase by any means! My point is, anyone can say an antenna did better on THEIR setup, but might work like crap on mine! and finally, is a 1/4 wave antenna a 1/4 wave? is a 1/2 wave antenna a 1/2 wave? how can 1/4 wave antenna do any better than another quarter wave if put in EXACTLY the same place and everything is the same equipment wise?

 

[Robb]

I understand.
But if you run such a test from the same vehicle; then it all becomes relative.
The other side of the test would be another station/friend that you trust that can evaluate what he hears correctly. Or, if he can video gate each antenna w/o changing anything from his end - in order to keep the results consistent. Maybe you can get a local shop to lend you some antennas to make this comparison.
It's just a thought...

 

[JesseJamesNEC]

That would be a great idea IF there WAS a shop here! There isn't, I am merely going by the small amount of theory I know, and it all truthfully seems that a good majority is hype and peer pressure with these big "comp" antennas, were there keydowns BEFORE these big coiled antennas? yes, the antenna of choice back then was a 102" whip due to it's height. also, as far as I can see a coil of whatever type would add resistance, a straght 102" whip for instance by all accounts SHOULD be the best. I just basically cannot understand the COST of these newer antennas, understanding the builders need to make a buck, I just cannot "justify" the cost I guess.

 

[W5LZ]

There really isn't anything magical/mysterious about antennas. They all do the same thing, they radiate. Different 'sizes' and 'shapes' of antennas do that radiating in different way. Depending on where you want a signal to go, picking the right 'size'/'shape' antenna can certainly make a difference.
Speaking only about vertical mobile antennas for an example. The 'size', or length of an antenna determines the shape of the radiation pattern it will produce. A 1/4 wave antenna will produce a 'signal density' of some level at some distance from that antenna. The further you get away from that antenna the less that 'signal density' will be. (That's 'dead nutz' common physics, and geometry, and holds true for everything I can think of.) Pick a distance, measure the signal field strength at that point. Now shorten that 1/4 wave antenna by some arbitrary length and add enough 'coil'/inductance to that shortened length to make it resonant again. Run back out there to that measuring point and measure the signal's field strength again. Assuming a very sensitive and accurate field strength meter, that shorter antenna's field strength will be lower than the 'full sized' antenna's field strength. (That also assumes the same transmitted power level of course.) It will be lower every time. How much lower depends on how much the full sized antenna was shortened. Try it, see for yourself.
So, if you have two antennas, both shorter than a 1/4 wave length but of the same length, they will produce the same signal density at the same distance 98% of the time. That 2% is a fudge factor to account for the various loading methods that might be used. So the only really practical difference between those two antennas is in how they are constructed, or their physical characteristic, not their electrical characteristics. At that point, you are getting into 'style' or 'looks' which there's just not accounting for, sort of. Pick the one you like best. Which gets into 'popularity', supply and demand, and the cost goes up because that's the whole point in making a 'different' antenna as far as the manufacturers are concerned.
That's all a long winded way of saying it, but I'll bet you understand exactly what I'm saying. There are no 'secret' antenna magic/mysteries/miracles. There certainly are advertising 'secrets'/magic/mysteries/miracles. Just read the ads...
- 'Doc


(Cynical? Only if you define cynical as Realistic.)

pun intended!

 

[hookedon6]

heck, anyone else remember the (manuf. promoted) rumor around the early '80's about a certain antenna having so much gain that it was illegal.

 

[JesseJamesNEC]

That's all a long winded way of saying it, but I'll bet you understand exactly what I'm saying. There are no 'secret' antenna magic/mysteries/miracles. There certainly are advertising 'secrets'/magic/mysteries/miracles. Just read the ads...
- 'Doc


(Cynical? Only if you define cynical as Realistic.)

pun intended!

I do understand completely, that has been my point, theoretically there can be no "Miracle Antennas" there can only be the antennas that work, do they all work? probably. Would my truck look as "cool" with a 102" whip on it? probably not, but it would work just as well as any other antennas, for alot less cash. I really don't feel the need to test all different antennas, if I were to do any testing, I think it would simply be a test of different locations on the vehicle for the antenna to see how the antenna's radiation patterns could be changed.

 

[ron103067]

I have recently bought a pred 10k with nine inch shaft to use on my peterbilt. I had a skythumper antenna on there before it was shorter and used a little different materials. I like the pred 10 k a little better than the skythumper cause it does receive and transmit just a little better. In my opinion it is cause the pred 10k is a lot taller. So much taller in fact that I had to mount my antenna at a forward facing angle just so it don't hit stuff. Now on for the big statement is that the pred was about double the price of the skythumper. Was it worth it? In my opinion NO. This test was done on a truck with limited spots to mount the antenna and height being a factor. The pred 10k may very well be worth it on a different vehicle.

 

[longhauler]

What about a tram? I got a tram 3500 mag mount. Any pro opinions about them. They are about half the cost of wilson.

 

[Chewwy]

I think a 102' whip is an exellent antenna. Other than the fact that the hit every thing and sway a lot I love them and currently use one.

Ditto. Mines sitting on top of a breedlove ballmount with rg213 feeding it. It does very well.

 

[W5LZ]

I don't think anything has changed in three years, except the names of the antennas in question.
- 'Doc

 

[KingCobra_CDX882]

I am NOT trying to disrespect any builders of antennas out there by this post, Okay, the reason I am posting this is because I have been doing some "research" on antennas overall, but something I find strange is the following....
All builders claim that their antenna is the best, ok, I say that their antenna may be best for THEIR setup, no one can say whether it will be the best on other setups, there are too many different styles of vehicles out there for a "Joe Shmo" antenna to work just perfect on say a Toyota Corolla and work the exact same on let's say a suburban! My point of all this is just one thing, and I know I will take heat for saying this but it has bothered me for years, PRICE! Think about it, you have for instance a double coil antenna it has "X" amount of turns on it, and you can get it from a truck stop for 29.95, ok, MAYBE the materials used aren't EXACTLY what the "builders" use but close, yet you pay well over $100.00 for the builder's antenna, I have been in radio a LONG time now, and have truthfully used some of these "Truck Stop" antennas a put some big watts thru them, wiorked just fine, receive was great! why do we pay so much for the "Name Brand" antennas??? Just wondering! remember a 102" whip is a whoppin' $20.00 at Rat Shack! Please think about what I am saying before you answer.

I Hear what you are saying...
In ways i Fully agree..
In ways i Dis-Agree..

One does often pay for the Name...
Those Names are Often Excellent antennas though..

Can those name brand antennas be out classed by same or better performing no name brands...
Well Perhaps...

I think the Name Brands will often being made better will last longer as well as hold up to more abuse..

Electrically i am Un-Sure the Big Performance brands Rule the Roost persay ..

I am Not going to get into a war and claim one is Best..
There are Many Factors to consider..

Best made..
Best Lasting..
Best Performing (be it local and or skip )
Best All round..

I would think...
Over all best do everything is likely the 102 whip..
be it 35 yrs ago or now..(cheep excellent performance etc )

By the way..for sake of this discussion...we are talking exclusively on 11 meter band...not mixing in multiband antennas)

Many Manufacturers Claim ( or try to claim) to be the BEST Performing antenna on the market ( a bunch of BS..ALWAYS )

Different applications tend to gain advantage with different types of antennas...so no ONE answers Best in all situations..

I remember doing Extensive testing in the Early and Mid 80's..
Back then K40 and Wilson 1000 tried to claim outright best performing antenna ( Dead Wrong )

i think monkey made was around back then...i do not recall seeing Predator ( i could be wrong of course..lol )

I did find a truck stop antenna though...
that did at least as well as Monkeymade..
Better then K40 and Wilson 1000 ( by far actually )

i remember it was a Predator or monkeymade type of clone
antenna with huge center coil..

Was a D-2500 ( with larger brother being a D-4500 )
I think was made by Palamar ( i still keep trying to find it again..lol)
That D-2500 Killed/Destroyed the K40 and Wilson 1000..

I would hook up either the wilson 1000 and K40 and get simular results..then hook the D-2500 and Bamm....My Signal Jumped Hugely...Both Locally and for Skip...Night and Day performance advantage over the K40 and Wilson 1000....
But about the same as a Monkeymade...
Except the D-2500 was $25 or $30 Only..

People Always saw me coming...
As it was Mounted on 5th door hatch by roof..
Making it 54 inches above the roof of my Capri/Mustang
(not what people expected to see on a fast car like that..lol )

So can Todays typical Truck stop antennas perform like the big and expensive Name Brands..
Likely so....
But will they hold up as well.. ?
Do they fit the need of type of install you are doing..?

Or will a 102 inch Whip or some other $20-$30 Truck stop clone antenna work as well for you..

Well..
That is why we use trial and era..and test the different antennas..

If you want to KNOW you will have a Excellent Plug and Play antenna....Get one of the Top Wel Known Brands..pay the money..Mount it and end of Story..

Otherwise..
Have fun and try out several antennas..then you KNOW what works Best for You !!