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New antenna from Sirio Gain-Master

Well, I am now using 100' of ½" hard line to the SGM, does that count?

Yep, it's Tim alright and I heard him talking a couple days ago about Rich's signal and how much it's come up since he went with the SGM.
His Big Stick was in really excellent shape when I saw it, and he went from 87' of 213 to 160' of 400 coax when he swapped, and I believe it's mounted no higher than was the Big Stick, but it is about 5 feet longer.

I'd still like to see you try the .64 tuned I-10K just to prove me wrong or that it doesn't work as well, although you are the guy with a weird ground effect... :D
 
OMG I wasted four weekends of my life.........Geeez:headbang

Oggy, one human opinion does not make for truth in any matter. You did not waste your time, you and your buddies all gave us a heads-up benefit of what you saw in testing and not just some CBBS words. For me "just words" is not meant to imply "lying"...I just like to see some effort and work involved with supporting the words, and you did that.

It's good enough for me.

By the way I think the YouTube guy in Europe, Penn 1969, did answer my question to him about his less that stellar results with the GM vs. A99 and my seeing his antenna being mounted low to the Earth. He writes:

Reply to your comment on: Sirio Gain Master vs Antron 99

@Marconi390 My GM is located on a 7 foot pole on my chimney. The Antron is sitting on top of the 20 foot pole that is located at the back of my shack. If you visit g0vqy.co.uk and then click on G0VQY's Shack > Photos > Ham radio, and then scroll along you will see a photo of the antennas are my house.

9:10 Add to Added to queue Sirio Gain Master vs Antron 99
This is my findings after testing the Sirio Gain Master against the Antron 99. Both antennas were at a similar height and were connected to a York 863.
See all comments

Delete
Dec 15, 2010


I don't understand the video that I see in Penn's response above, because I recall seeing an antenna installed in a garden between some buildings, and that image is why I asked the question about his SGM's low height. Maybe I went to Penn's website and saw the image I recall there, or I could have this all confused with another report from somewhere in the UK. I do recall seeing the video above, but I also recall seeing an antenna mounted on a short pole in a back yard. I don't recall seeing an antenna on the roof of any building either, but I could have missed it though.

See how the problem with some words, even on a video, when all the facts are not always known or understood factually. I thought I was looking at Penn's Gain Master low to the ground, and if it was actually someone else I apologize to Penn for misstating his words and meaning.

I still feel I experienced a definite attenuation with my GM mounted at or below 20' feet, and that was my only reason for the comments to Penn.

When I take my GM down soon, I'll be testing that impression I first got with it being setup low to the Earth. If I don't find this to still to be true, then I'll post telling everyone I was wrong.

I don't understand my soil conditions either, but I believe it is as I've stated before...the reason my antennas all seem to produce very similar results when close to the same height at the current maximum...is due to the soil around me. I live over a huge shallow well aquifer that might be some square miles in size. With the limited understanding I also have about the subject of Earth affects, I understand that 5/8 wave type vertical antennas may well work their magic over poor to very poor conductive soil. My lack luster type results for my 5/8 wave and .64 wave may be supported by this idea if true. Maybe it might even explain why I see my 1/4 and 1/2 waves doing very well when compared to the longer antennas working over good to very good soil.

I also want to add that my GM vs. A99 also showed similar results to those that Penn saw. If you'll go to my WWRF albums and check out my Signal Reports for the summer of 2009, you'll see that my A99 also showed some of the best reports noted in the series. I always thought my A99 worked well with or without a GPK, but I never gave it much credit untill I rehashed my 2009, reports some months later and noticed how well it worked. I won't put much stock in the comparisons, but the individual numbers for each station for each antenna are what I saw at the time. Maybe Penn's station is located over similar Earth to my station, and we get similar results. Something to consider.
 
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What I've read in some places is that the 5/8, .64 antennas benefit from the GPK they sport because the GP provide the difference in a situation where soil is poor, and in such a case also add the benefit of decoupling the coax as well as the effects of nearby poor soil conditions. If I made any sense here, I thought it was making up for the lack of good soil that the 5/8 GPs did to good effect.
If that is so, then the antennas that use the GPs are put to the disadvantage of being decoupled from that good soil whereas the A99 would benefit from the soil. In the case of the non-GP SGM, where would that matter? Does the SGM not actually respond to soil (earth affects) so readily as the A99, or the AP? I've been reading that the SGM seems to be ultra sensitive to the environment it is placed in . . .

I am way out on a limb even asking in this thread where people who know stuff are . . . anywho . . .:confused:
 
Oggy, one human opinion does not make for truth in any matter. You did not waste your time, you and your buddies all gave us a heads-up benefit of what you saw in testing and not just some CBBS words. For me "just words" is not meant to imply "lying"...I just like to see some effort and work involved with supporting the words, and you did that.

It's good enough for me.

By the way I think the YouTube guy in Europe, Penn 1969, did answer my question to him about his less that stellar results with the GM vs. A99 and my seeing his antenna being mounted low to the Earth. He writes:

Reply to your comment on: Sirio Gain Master vs Antron 99

@Marconi390 My GM is located on a 7 foot pole on my chimney. The Antron is sitting on top of the 20 foot pole that is located at the back of my shack. If you visit g0vqy.co.uk and then click on G0VQY's Shack > Photos > Ham radio, and then scroll along you will see a photo of the antennas are my house.

9:10 Add to Added to queue Sirio Gain Master vs Antron 99
This is my findings after testing the Sirio Gain Master against the Antron 99. Both antennas were at a similar height and were connected to a York 863.
See all comments

Delete
Dec 15, 2010


I don't understand the video that I see in Penn's response above, because I recall seeing an antenna installed in a garden between some buildings, and that image is why I asked the question about his SGM's low height. Maybe I went to Penn's website and saw the image I recall there, or I could have this all confused with another report from somewhere in the UK. I do recall seeing the video above, but I also recall seeing an antenna mounted on a short pole in a back yard. I don't recall seeing an antenna on the roof of any building either, but I could have missed it though.

See how the problem with some words, even on a video, when all the facts are not always known or understood factually. I thought I was looking at Penn's Gain Master low to the ground, and if it was actually someone else I apologize to Penn for misstating his words and meaning.

I still feel I experienced a definite attenuation with my GM mounted at or below 20' feet, and that was my only reason for the comments to Penn.

When I take my GM down soon, I'll be testing that impression I first got with it being setup low to the Earth. If I don't find this to still to be true, then I'll post telling everyone I was wrong.

I don't understand my soil conditions either, but I believe it is as I've stated before...the reason my antennas all seem to produce very similar results when close to the same height at the current maximum...is due to the soil around me. I live over a huge shallow well aquifer that might be some square miles in size. With the limited understanding I also have about the subject of Earth affects, I understand that 5/8 wave type vertical antennas may well work their magic over poor to very poor conductive soil. My lack luster type results for my 5/8 wave and .64 wave may be supported by this idea if true. Maybe it might even explain why I see my 1/4 and 1/2 waves doing very well when compared to the longer antennas working over good to very good soil.

I also want to add that my GM vs. A99 also showed similar results to those that Penn saw. If you'll go to my WWRF albums and check out my Signal Reports for the summer of 2009, you'll see that my A99 also showed some of the best reports noted in the series. I always thought my A99 worked well with or without a GPK, but I never gave it much credit untill I rehashed my 2009, reports some months later and noticed how well it worked. I won't put much stock in the comparisons, but the individual numbers for each station for each antenna are what I saw at the time. Maybe Penn's station is located over similar Earth to my station, and we get similar results. Something to consider.

I know Penn very well am surprised at his findings (but there has been a link from my videos to his since he did them).Again not everyone finds the same.........but all the SGM owners around here have the same results as I found. By the way my ground is very sandy with bed rock not too far down.Glad I had a mini digger to dig my tower foundation 7 foot down.But the Shakesphere has a deepish hole where the ground spike system is filled with rock salt.
 
I know Penn very well am surprised at his findings (but there has been a link from my videos to his since he did them).Again not everyone finds the same.........but all the SGM owners around here have the same results as I found. By the way my ground is very sandy with bed rock not too far down.Glad I had a mini digger to dig my tower foundation 7 foot down.But the Shakesphere has a deepish hole where the ground spike system is filled with rock salt.

Oggy, maybe Penn's station is located over marsh like coastal rich farm land, similar to mine. If you have contact, maybe you could ask him? As we speak, I'm trying to get my ducks in a row and make some video's similar to the one you did and hopefully show my results. I don't have the luxury of having buddies that will cooperate with me showing signals both ways or any way for that matter. I'll have to use sideband and that makes everything trying to compare signals more difficult, but I will try. It looks easy on your video, but getting everything setup and working as planed is not that easy.

Isn't your Shakesphere a conventional end fed 5/8 wave model similar to an Imax? If so, it is my opinion that the natural Earth you describe below your antenna is ideal for the end fed unbalanced type 5/8 wave. I can't make a good argument as to why that is, and of course this also assumes the idea is correct.

I may be mistaken, but I think W8JI or Cebik and maybe both...support similar ideas and discuss same in some of their writings. Bob85 may have the link handy, but if I can find it I'll post it.
 
Oggy, one human opinion does not make for truth in any matter. You did not waste your time, you and your buddies all gave us a heads-up benefit of what you saw in testing and not just some CBBS words. For me "just words" is not meant to imply "lying"...I just like to see some effort and work involved with supporting the words, and you did that.

It's good enough for me.

By the way I think the YouTube guy in Europe, Penn 1969, did answer my question to him about his less that stellar results with the GM vs. A99 and my seeing his antenna being mounted low to the Earth. He writes:

Reply to your comment on: Sirio Gain Master vs Antron 99

@Marconi390 My GM is located on a 7 foot pole on my chimney. The Antron is sitting on top of the 20 foot pole that is located at the back of my shack. If you visit g0vqy.co.uk and then click on G0VQY's Shack > Photos > Ham radio, and then scroll along you will see a photo of the antennas are my house.

9:10 Add to Added to queue Sirio Gain Master vs Antron 99
This is my findings after testing the Sirio Gain Master against the Antron 99. Both antennas were at a similar height and were connected to a York 863.
See all comments

Delete
Dec 15, 2010


I don't understand the video that I see in Penn's response above, because I recall seeing an antenna installed in a garden between some buildings, and that image is why I asked the question about his SGM's low height. Maybe I went to Penn's website and saw the image I recall there, or I could have this all confused with another report from somewhere in the UK. I do recall seeing the video above, but I also recall seeing an antenna mounted on a short pole in a back yard. I don't recall seeing an antenna on the roof of any building either, but I could have missed it though.

See how the problem with some words, even on a video, when all the facts are not always known or understood factually. I thought I was looking at Penn's Gain Master low to the ground, and if it was actually someone else I apologize to Penn for misstating his words and meaning.

I still feel I experienced a definite attenuation with my GM mounted at or below 20' feet, and that was my only reason for the comments to Penn.

When I take my GM down soon, I'll be testing that impression I first got with it being setup low to the Earth. If I don't find this to still to be true, then I'll post telling everyone I was wrong.

I don't understand my soil conditions either, but I believe it is as I've stated before...the reason my antennas all seem to produce very similar results when close to the same height at the current maximum...is due to the soil around me. I live over a huge shallow well aquifer that might be some square miles in size. With the limited understanding I also have about the subject of Earth affects, I understand that 5/8 wave type vertical antennas may well work their magic over poor to very poor conductive soil. My lack luster type results for my 5/8 wave and .64 wave may be supported by this idea if true. Maybe it might even explain why I see my 1/4 and 1/2 waves doing very well when compared to the longer antennas working over good to very good soil.

I also want to add that my GM vs. A99 also showed similar results to those that Penn saw. If you'll go to my WWRF albums and check out my Signal Reports for the summer of 2009, you'll see that my A99 also showed some of the best reports noted in the series. I always thought my A99 worked well with or without a GPK, but I never gave it much credit untill I rehashed my 2009, reports some months later and noticed how well it worked. I won't put much stock in the comparisons, but the individual numbers for each station for each antenna are what I saw at the time. Maybe Penn's station is located over similar Earth to my station, and we get similar results. Something to consider.

What I find interesting is that on TX, Penn's radios load up differently, look at the Gain Master the needle is at the 30+, when he switches to A-99 he is at a 9. All I can say is doing test like these have so many variables involved we have no idea what he has for coax , swr, mounting height , location etc and yet some people want to treat these videos like they really mean something. If you want a valid comparison it has to be with same coax, same mast, same radio same everything. Otherwise don't put to much into these tests as nothing is consistent and your results won't mean much.
 
What I find interesting is that on TX, Penn's radios load up differently, look at the Gain Master the needle is at the 30+, when he switches to A-99 he is at a 9. All I can say is doing test like these have so many variables involved we have no idea what he has for coax , swr, mounting height , location etc and yet some people want to treat these videos like they really mean something. If you want a valid comparison it has to be with same coax, same mast, same radio same everything. Otherwise don't put to much into these tests as nothing is consistent and your results won't mean much.

Yep, and there's always the possibility that the receiving station is in a null or direct line angle on one antenna but not the other.
One antenna could act as a reflector or director for the other, or the "¼λ null factor" could be in effect.

I've tested my theory, driven ¼λ wave from the peak signal, (on both 10m & 2m) in a direction exactly toward or away from the receiving station and we've seen a deep null, then another ¼λ and the signals are back up to the peak reading.

Consider two antennas in a diagonal to the receiving station, one could be dead on a peak with the other dead in a null.
 
Yep, and there's always the possibility that the receiving station is in a null or direct line angle on one antenna but not the other.
One antenna could act as a reflector or director for the other, or the "¼λ null factor" could be in effect.

I've tested my theory, driven ¼λ wave from the peak signal, (on both 10m & 2m) in a direction exactly toward or away from the receiving station and we've seen a deep null, then another ¼λ and the signals are back up to the peak reading.

Consider two antennas in a diagonal to the receiving station, one could be dead on a peak with the other dead in a null.

It is easy to see with a FS meter and some open land as you walk away from antenna you will see the FS go down, keep walking and the FS will rise up again about a wavelength away this will keep repeating itself to there is no signal to see.
 
I agree with most of you guys that testing on the same mount is best, but I thought I should at least finish fully switching this series with the GM around from my new mount vs. the old mount farther out back in the clear.

Here are two videos with the GM vs. A99 with a few hours between test and on two different radios. One is using voice signals and the other using beacon signals. When I compare these two radios I generally see close to the same signal from both with a little advantage for the TS570.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol6GsxKyXRw

YouTube - Marconi testing his Gain Master vs. A99 with voice

Here is the GM vs. A99 at the same height to the mounts.

IMG_0886 (640x480).jpg
 
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Another note I just received this morning. One of my regular guys, Bill in Porter is in Hospice care, and is dying.

Another of my regulars Doug in Conroe, is AWOL too, for over a week.

Dave the youngest in the bunch, and has given up on two-way radio, because he can't figure out how to get on frequency with his new Cobra 200 he got for Christmas. He refuses to go back to using his Cobra 148 which got his name called all the time, so nobody will call him anymore and we fuss at him when he comes on off frequency so bad he is not understandable.

Similar stories have happened every Christmas as long as I can remember, a lot of new radios is always trouble. In fact some days when DX is rollin' it is just terrible with sideband.

Tim in Planterville got an Old New Yaesu FT101ex and he's in love with and sleeps with it too. It doesn't talk worth a crap, nobody can understand him and that pisses him off...so he's out of the group too.

I won't have anything to compare my signal reports against based on the past and I'm tired of doing those reports, so no more written reports. I might do some real short videos however of my future testing on my new mount only if I can get some energy back.
 
Sounds like just a little assistance might get a couple of them back on the air.

Eddie, have you ever considered a lay-over crank up tower? Might make your life of testing & antenna play a little easier.
 
Sounds like just a little assistance might get a couple of them back on the air.

Eddie, have you ever considered a lay-over crank up tower? Might make your life of testing & antenna play a little easier.

007 thanks, but I already have a lay over pushup pole setup. As long as the antenna is close to a wavelength high, I don't think it matters much. I'm at least 18' higher than anything except trees.

My testing thus far has been riddled with far too many variables anyway. I hope to be able to eliminate some of these height differences stuff when using two systems, and in the near future should make my testing a bit better hopefully. Who knows, I may even start to see the differences that I've seldom seen that others report.

Until I do my best to get things right, I don't like being different than everyone else.
 
007 thanks, but I already have a lay over pushup pole setup. As long as the antenna is close to a wavelength high, I don't think it matters much. I'm at least 18' higher than anything except trees.

My testing thus far has been riddled with far too many variables anyway. I hope to be able to eliminate some of these height differences stuff when using two systems, and in the near future should make my testing a bit better hopefully. Who knows, I may even start to see the differences that I've seldom seen that others report.


Until I do my best to get things right, I don't like being different than everyone else.

I like that last statement, it's so good it's quotable. (y)
 
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