New antenna from Sirio Gain-Master

[CDX-007]

1. I never said they were out of calibration numb nuts I said they were representative of a correct reading, funny both his Kenwoods show close to the same if you go back and look at my post he is using radios who's s meter would show more accurate results than all the guys who used CB radios. Anyone who sees 1-2 s units difference(1 s unit = 4-6 db - 2 s units = 8 to 12db ) and think that is correct when comparing similiar antennas must be smoking the same shit you are. I guarantee my theory holds more water than your's. How can coax make what 1 antenna recieves be out of phase.

My, aren't you waxing abusive, Mr Suburban

Easy, take two identical antennas and install them equidistant in the direction of the transmitting station you are receiving. Using the velocity factor, cut one length of coax exactly ½ wave shorter. Using both in parallel you will experience a high degree of cancellation.

Glad I could learn you something, if you're able to.

 

[mackmobile43]

The student is being learned.lol I know which side to take here.

 

[Marconi]

Personally and if I understand correctly, I think the issue of similar signal reports results that I see probably has more to do with the AGC circuit trying to balance signal strength in my radios. That said however, I'm reminded that my radios are likely very similar to others, so I wonder why others don't see similar results, unless it is something else at play. A qualified technician would certainly be better qualified to answer such issues.

I think Homer touched on an important issue when doing two way test and making the effort to compare two or more antennas on the same mount in short order hoping to rule out some variables. Time is of the essence, conditions are King, and testing with several different stations during such a process...must present similar problems as my own. Getting guys to cooperate and be there when needed is never easy. Else the end result is, there never seems enough sampling to average out the exceptions, both high and low. Believe me I see signals going both ways, and to hear y'all talk with one or two buddies testing with you, "X" always showing to be better than "Y" by 1-2 Sunits. Such is not the way I see signals working at my location. Sometimes within moments and maybe even during a radio contact, or before you can unkey the mic...conditions can change and often that affects the signal, audio, and sometimes even the continued success of the contact. While testing one antenna, how would you ever know, or how would you realize any difference in the quality, clarity, or volume of audio, assuming there were a difference to be noted.

The answer is simple, you won't.

I recently asked several folks that claimed to be testing to describe what exactly they did during such a process, and no one has responded yet. I also ask for some proof and a record of doing such complicated and delicate work, and that really stops guys in their tracks. So, what do you think I'm thinking in such cases. No work, no proof, no claim worth talking about.

 

[HomerBB]

Some great tests are being done, but I maintain that there is a very limited amount of definitive information to be obtained from using just one station in the distance in the same direction to form absolute conclusions. That's my problem, too. Only one or two guys I can get to help, both northeast of me, one 10 miles, the other 20. Every other station I get within my RX is not a participant except in the same passive way Marconi has - receive only.
If 4 to 5 stations were cooperating in that many diverse directions over a variety of terrain and other natural/manmade obstructions then perhaps a finer picture could be obtained for the antenna. Nothing would change for whether a given antenna would definitely benefit a particular user over another antenna, but the variables would be controlled to a point, and measurable in varying circumstances.

Station X is near the sea, I am inland, or both station x and I am near the sea. Maybe station Y is on a mountain, and I am in a meadow, or the peat bog. Not enough to show the reasons why in those scenarios. But what if there was station X,Y,Z and E, and Q in different directions reporting on both RX and TX to the central control station GM? Might we see something different then?

And there is this unanswered question, "What kind of receive differences might the staions Marconi is listening to report for him if they were willing to participate?" But . . . alas, they know there has never been a better antenna than their 45 year old Penetrator, and won't even discuss it, at least not in a language tuned to more delicate ears.

 

[MrSuburban]

My, aren't you waxing abusive, Mr Suburban

Easy, take two identical antennas and install them equidistant in the direction of the transmitting station you are receiving. Using the velocity factor, cut one length of coax exactly ½ wave shorter. Using both in parallel you will experience a high degree of cancellation.

Glad I could learn you something, if you're able to.

My aren't you sensitive You are the one who started with the Pissing monkeys I just replied in kind.

Learn me something? LOL you aren't even talking about the same test set up he is using you introduce some far fetch idea.......Now back to class Jr.

For starters is this what Marconi's set up is ? No!!!!
So how can he get a phase shift from his coax on RX signal when he is using 1 antenna and 1 length of coax? Honestly is that the best you can do to come up with a reason he isnt seeing dramatic S Unit difference's? Please explain this phenomena Ill bet some will get a good laugh.

Thanks for playing though. Go back to the dispensary before they close

 

[MrSuburban]

Such is not the way I see signals working at my location. Sometimes within moments and maybe even during a radio contact, or before you can unkey the mic...conditions can change and often that affects the signal, audio, and sometimes even the continued success of the contact. While testing one antenna, how would you ever know, or how would you realize any difference in the quality, clarity, or volume of audio, assuming there were a difference to be noted.

The answer is simple, you won't.

I recently asked several folks that claimed to be testing to describe what exactly they did during such a process, and no one has responded yet. I also ask for some proof and a record of doing such complicated and delicate work, and that really stops guys in their tracks. So, what do you think I'm thinking in such cases. No work, no proof, no claim worth talking about.

I listen to and watch locals when they key up in my area that i dont care what time of day or night it is they give me exact same signal, night or day. Im not sure why you are seeing such a difference in signal strength fluctuating. The ionosphere is not changing these guys signals to you at 15-30 miles away, I dont believe that. Again just because someone else is seeing 1-2 S units more why do you think you have to see the same increase? Are you both using the same calibrated equipment? I just watched every video on u tube with Gain Master not one used a amatuer radio like your kenwoods they are all using CB's with meters that have no standard for calibration. And most are Bar graph meters to boot.

Magnum 257HP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6tzncrk-vM&feature=related
York 863
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URXE67qMMZg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L74uvmy7HAs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9b9BkFz1Q_w&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Tx7-KQWf6o&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfOBUBY2BpQ&feature=related

 

[Oggy]

I listen to and watch locals when they key up in my area that i dont care what time of day or night it is they give me exact same signal, night or day. Im not sure why you are seeing such a difference in signal strength fluctuating. The ionosphere is not changing these guys signals to you at 15-30 miles away, I dont believe that. Again just because someone else is seeing 1-2 S units more why do you think you have to see the same increase? Are you both using the same calibrated equipment? I just watched every video on u tube with Gain Master not one used a amatuer radio like your kenwoods they are all using CB's with meters that have no standard for calibration. And most are Bar graph meters to boot.

Magnum 257HP
YouTube - Sirio Gain Master VS Shakesphere ABS 1600 Big Stick on 10 Meters Ham Band
York 863
YouTube - Sirio Gain Master vs Antron 99

YouTube - 121IR073 Mr.Jermaine (TEST Gain Master 5/8) +15Db
YouTube - Sirio 'Gain Master' Versus the Shakesphere Army Big Stick!
YouTube - 153TDT/DX (Sirio Gain Master)
YouTube - 69SD010 Mr Dauve (Sirio Gain Master 5/8)

Hello I read your post with interest.
I was the first guy who did a Youtube review video in the UK(infact four videos). I had operators North, South,East and West of me upto 25 miles away. Infact we had a three way video at the same time to show there was no "Blagging" and fiction.
Now I wonder what the difference of calibrate Amateur Radios meters would make? I run and own some of the best Ham radios made as well as the radios I used........(infact on the 10 meter video ,one operator was using an Icom IC756 PRO 3 and I'm familiar with this radio as I own one too and an other a decent Yaesu) both still recieved me 1 "S" point stronger.
I thought these reviews would be a guide and indeed what works for one location and station , may not be as good for somebody else as some tests have shown with various people.
How far do you take a calibrated meter........if so you need some serious test equipment for a start to set all radios the same.
The other thing is we are Licenced Amateurs and to use HF sets on the UK CB Radio band is ilegal and not very wise posting this on Youtube for all to see and not worth loosing your licence for.I hope this explains a few things from this side of the Pond.
My Gainmaster is still working superbly and I am happy with it still.......Best Regards Dave M0OGY UK.

 

[MrSuburban]

Hello I read your post with interest.
I was the first guy who did a Youtube review video in the UK(infact four videos). I had operators North, South,East and West of me upto 25 miles away. Infact we had a three way video at the same time to show there was no "Blagging" and fiction.
Now I wonder what the difference of calibrate Amateur Radios meters would make? I run and own some of the best Ham radios made as well as the radios I used........(infact on the 10 meter video ,one operator was using an Icom IC756 PRO 3 and I'm familiar with this radio as I own one too and an other a decent Yaesu) both still recieved me 1 "S" point stronger.
I thought these reviews would be a guide and indeed what works for one location and station , may not be as good for somebody else as some tests have shown with various people.
How far do you take a calibrated meter........if so you need some serious test equipment for a start to set all radios the same.
My Gainmaster is still working superbly and I am happy with it still.......Best Regards Dave M0OGY UK.

Dave, U are allowed to use the Amatuer radio as a reciever in your test. Your disclosure that the Icom 756 pro (which I own as well)showed about 1 s unit stronger is more believable and in line with the slight difference in antenna gain than 1-2 S units as some have reported. But the point is there are guys over here in US doing testing and they are expecting to see the same 1-2+ S-Unit increase on thier meter. That isn't going to happen in fact you Icom and Mine may also show different readings . In the end a S Meter is relative as long as the antenna showed a increase in performance that is what counts . trying to achieve the 2 S-Unit increase as other have will drive a man batty, Just look at CDX-007 he is theorizing all sorts of crazy things happening becaue Marconi hasnt seen the same increase. A simple signal generator to calibrate the S meter is all that is needed on most Radios some radios cannot be adjusted. But they can be check with the Sig Gen


The other reason these threads are 50+ pages is because people are doing tests that are not even closely related to the other guy, and then they want to argue the difference between thier results and the other guy.


I see guys using cheap assed switch box's to switch 2 antennas under test do any of them know what the isolation from one port to the other is? Do any of them even care or know that there may be some interaction between the 2. The variables need to be eliminated it is that simple, testing with bar graph meters, let alone on SSB etc makes me laugh like a teenager high on weed.


A antenna tuned for low SWR does not mean it is tuned for highest gain, some guys antennas may be more resonant and will put out a higher signal than one with a lower SWR. Yet there are fools on here assuming it is a 1 element phasing errors or other idiotic statements because they want the antenna to fit their performance description.

Until someone does a comparison without all the variables they are running with thier choke out and the results will be skewed. The difference in the antennas is already negligable the added variables makes it even worse.


If you have a yaesu or Icom get this program then you can make some better signal comparisons and log the results. The program isnt the answer but it helps.

http://www.seed-solutions.com/gregordy/Software/SMeterLite.htm#DataLogging

 

[Craig]

I've been following this thread with some interest since I recently switched from a IMAX 2000 to the Sirio Gain Master. Using identical equipment, coax and at the same antenna hight I immediately noticed a 1-2 S-unit improvement on receive with local stations that I talk to every day and a 1 S-unit improvement on transmit according to reports. I will say that the Sirio seems to perform better on receive noticeably less background noise having clearly picked up several stations that are around 25 miles away that I used to have some difficulty with. I don't contend this is a scientific test but I've been a CB'er for almost forty-years and I'm very happy with my antenna purchase.

 

[MrSuburban]

I've been following this thread with some interest since I recently switched from a IMAX 2000 to the Sirio Gain Master. Using identical equipment, coax and at the same antenna hight I immediately noticed a 1-2 S-unit improvement on receive with local stations that I talk to every day and a 1 S-unit improvement on transmit according to reports. I will say that the Sirio seems to perform better on receive noticeably less background noise having clearly picked up several stations that are around 25 miles away that I used to have some difficulty with. I don't contend this is a scientific test but I've been a CB'er for almost forty-years and I'm very happy with my antenna purchase.

If you did the test with same coax and same antennas height etc, you clearly have surpassed what many of the others are trying to do except your test is more valid than 99% you see on you tube and read about, clearly you have eliminated many variables that they included. You learned something in 40 yrs .. Good Job

 

[jazzsinger]

The variables need to be eliminated it is that simple, testing with bar graph meters, let alone on SSB etc makes me laugh like a teenager high on weed.

Laughing like a teenager high on weed can't be a bad thing

i can't help wondering if the fluctuation Eddie Marconi is seeing in received signals isn't down to propagation (assuming they are line of sight contacts) but desensitisation of his receiver front end due to a strong transmitter in his locality.

i used to get a very similar effect after a police repeater was installed on top of the local multi storey flats, even on my cobra 148 gtl dx which had a brick wall front end i could see signal drops of up too 2 s units when the repeater was tx'ing, it was like my radio had suddenly become deaf, which i knew wasn't the case.

As for trying to test antennas on ssb, unless the station being received is transmitting a constant tone its totally pointless, much better to search out a constant carrier, which is constant over a long period of time. that way you have a solid reference point.

 

[jazzsinger]

Do you guys also have to re-sign in after only about 10-15 minutes? I have to continually sign-in, sign-in, sign-in all day long, every 10-15 minutes in order for it to know it's me and offer the long page type I have selected, even though I'm not closing the window nor deleting my cookies.

It's getting ludicrous.

Maybe I should email Moleculo and find out why I'm somehow entered into the system in such a fashion, unless that's just how this forum is set up, and if so I'll just learn to live with it.

i get that too, a right pita, the only forum i get it on, not sure if itsmy preferences or if its the way the forum is set up.

Lots of unnecessary work, I know, so unless you've just bought a new supply of Vitamin B12 don't sweat it.

Scott

Don't knock b12, that shit keeps me alive, ever since i found out i suffer from pernicious anaemia (whatever the fuck that is?). by the time i get the injection i'm that run down its like getting a gram of speed mainlined.

 

[CDX-007]

My aren't you sensitive You are the one who started with the Pissing monkeys I just replied in kind.

Learn me something? LOL you aren't even talking about the same test set up he is using you introduce some far fetch idea.......Now back to class Jr.

For starters is this what Marconi's set up is ? No!!!!
So how can he get a phase shift from his coax on RX signal when he is using 1 antenna and 1 length of coax? Honestly is that the best you can do to come up with a reason he isnt seeing dramatic S Unit difference's? Please explain this phenomena Ill bet some will get a good laugh.

Thanks for playing though. Go back to the dispensary before they close

Nevermind, you are the king of knowledge, I am just a lowly peon, you win.

I bow to your obvious intellectual superiority

 

[CDX-007]

Laughing like a teenager high on weed can't be a bad thing

i can't help wondering if the fluctuation Eddie Marconi is seeing in received signals isn't down to propagation (assuming they are line of sight contacts) but desensitisation of his receiver front end due to a strong transmitter in his locality.

i used to get a very similar effect after a police repeater was installed on top of the local multi storey flats, even on my cobra 148 gtl dx which had a brick wall front end i could see signal drops of up too 2 s units when the repeater was tx'ing, it was like my radio had suddenly become deaf, which i knew wasn't the case.

As for trying to test antennas on ssb, unless the station being received is transmitting a constant tone its totally pointless, much better to search out a constant carrier, which is constant over a long period of time. that way you have a solid reference point.

I'm going to email Moleculo and ask if it's something I've set in my preferences, that's a good idea George.

I'm heading over to where the other SGM is and I'm going to see if any interesting numbers pop out at me when I measure the coax in the base coil & bottom 3/16λ of the radiator. It's evidently RG303/U @ 69.5% VF.

This might be an interesting issue to pursue regarding the 'whys' that are making an A99 keep up with the best performing vertical (SGM) currently available at Eddie's QTH. I sure don't get anything remotely close to the results he gets, regardless of the radios used to compare.

BTW, when testing on SSB we always generate a steady tone so it reads like AM. Maybe we should just go to AM...?

 

[Shockwave]

I've been following this thread with some interest since I recently switched from a IMAX 2000 to the Sirio Gain Master. Using identical equipment, coax and at the same antenna hight I immediately noticed a 1-2 S-unit improvement on receive with local stations that I talk to every day and a 1 S-unit improvement on transmit according to reports. I will say that the Sirio seems to perform better on receive noticeably less background noise having clearly picked up several stations that are around 25 miles away that I used to have some difficulty with. I don't contend this is a scientific test but I've been a CB'er for almost forty-years and I'm very happy with my antenna purchase.

Well look at this. In his first post he made what could be considered an accurate comparison between two antennas that enabled him to determine which one was better. No need to argue meter accuracy, switch box isolation or interaction from the previous installed antenna. Even with your eyes closed he can hear the difference in the distant stations. This is all consistent with the advertised gain.