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New antenna from Sirio Gain-Master

I don't know the setup details and I don't care. You just made my point.

People come on these forums talking about how great some new fangled gizmo is with zero scientific proof. I simply decided to do the same.


Unless testing is done on an antenna range under controlled conditions the test is next to useless. My story is useless too as you pointed out.


If I were on here telling everyone how great the new technology widgit was it might take 10 pages before someone came along to set the story straight.

BTW I really do outgun the two neighbors with far less power. Who knows why.......

I think you're inflating a rare, worst-case scenario in an attempt to force a debate.
Most who mention a performance increase provide much more information than you have, and frankly I doubt your story is true. There just aren't that many SGMs out there yet to have two within your immediate area, (unless you're in MY vicinity) and even if there were/ are, I believe you'd be impressed with how close their performance comes to that of your beam.

And zero scientific proof? I'd like to see you debate that with the design engineers at Sirio.

Perhaps you haven't read their webpage describing in depth and detail why the Gain Master should outperform other conventional 5/8
λ? Maybe you don't know about the balanced center-feed point or the way Sirio have added a common-mode current choke to stop pattern-destroying feedline radiation, and have removed the bottom 1/8
λ inverse radiation found on conventional 5/8λ from the Gain Master for as near to a zero° elevation angle as possible, providing more usable gain on the horizon?

There's plenty of scientific evidence available for those who desire to put in the time to learn why Sirio's claims are not BS.

In fact, it's the first vertical omni I've pitted against my Hy-gain Penetrator in 35 years which has surpassed it's performance.

Now, every mechanic knows he needs the right tool for the job. Hence the Gain Master would be the wrong antenna to erect if you lived in a hole such as a valley surrounded by hills. In that application you would want a high angle radiator such as a ¼λ mounted on the ground.

I mostly disagree with your statement. Anecdotal / empirical testing information is somewhat scientific, and more so as more variables are taken into account.

At Sirio they do use a testing apparatus which I understand cost them over a $million.


Directional antennas, like your beam, concentrate your RF energy, providing gain, not to mention an incorrectly installed Gain Master will perform poorly in comparison to an Imax simply thrown up in the air. The Gain Master needs to be well above
any other metallic or reflective objects, at least a good ½λ in my opinion, and well away from other antennas.
Being a balanced antenna with a near zero° TOA it will not perform well if it is placed in an area of low ground where a higher TOA antenna is needed.


And I've owned several types of 2 element beams over the years, Yagi, Quad, Delta Loop, and even the worst of them was considerably better than the Penetrator, so I doubt your 'whatever brand & number of elements' beam, (you seem to be acting very tight-lipped regarding your mystery antenna) is really only "slightly better" then was your vertical omni, or any omni, for that matter.

Depending upon which beam you have, I'd wager those two SGM users would give you a good run for your money if their SGMs were installed a good 36' above the roof, with good quality coax, similar power and at 75+ miles, but that just comes from 35+ years of "useless" anecdotal
/ empirical experience.
icon12.gif



- Now, about that mysteriously absent Vector CST....
 
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My whole town is within 10 feet of similar height. My antenna is on a crankup tower and it works better than those guy's even cranked down.
Maybe they have crappy feedline or FOS about the power they are running.

I'm using a beam but it's only slightly better than my old vertical was. another non-scientific comparison.
thats not a fair test at all
 
I dunno, maybe he thinks we should all build an antenna test range in the back yard, or refrain from ever mentioning anything about antennas and how well they perform.

Would leave a real boring & empty antenna thread :confused:
 
Don't get side tracked with a fruitless argument that uses all negatives as support. Kamikaze must have a death wish issue that makes him so aggravated.
 
You all can keep drinking the kool aide while I get on the air and communicate.

The advertisement people have done thier job well.

ARRL had it right.

Dumb the tests down and get more people to buy new stuff.

Best of luck.
 
I think you're inflating a rare, worst-case scenario in an attempt to force a debate.
Most who mention a performance increase provide much more information than you have, and frankly I doubt your story is true. There just aren't that many SGMs out there yet to have two within your immediate area, (unless you're in MY vicinity) and even if there were/ are, I believe you'd be impressed with how close their performance comes to that of your beam.

And zero scientific proof? I'd like to see you debate that with the design engineers at Sirio.

Perhaps you haven't read their webpage describing in depth and detail why the Gain Master should outperform other conventional 5/8
λ? Maybe you don't know about the balanced center-feed point or the way Sirio have added a common-mode current choke to stop pattern-destroying feedline radiation, and have removed the bottom 1/8
λ inverse radiation found on conventional 5/8λ from the Gain Master for as near to a zero° elevation angle as possible, providing more usable gain on the horizon?

There's plenty of scientific evidence available for those who desire to put in the time to learn why Sirio's claims are not BS.

In fact, it's the first vertical omni I've pitted against my Hy-gain Penetrator in 35 years which has surpassed it's performance.

Now, every mechanic knows he needs the right tool for the job. Hence the Gain Master would be the wrong antenna to erect if you lived in a hole such as a valley surrounded by hills. In that application you would want a high angle radiator such as a ¼λ mounted on the ground.

I mostly disagree with your statement. Anecdotal / empirical testing information is somewhat scientific, and more so as more variables are taken into account.

At Sirio they do use a testing apparatus which I understand cost them over a $million.


Directional antennas, like your beam, concentrate your RF energy, providing gain, not to mention an incorrectly installed Gain Master will perform poorly in comparison to an Imax simply thrown up in the air. The Gain Master needs to be well above
any other metallic or reflective objects, at least a good ½λ in my opinion, and well away from other antennas.
Being a balanced antenna with a near zero° TOA it will not perform well if it is placed in an area of low ground where a higher TOA antenna is needed.


And I've owned several types of 2 element beams over the years, Yagi, Quad, Delta Loop, and even the worst of them was considerably better than the Penetrator, so I doubt your 'whatever brand & number of elements' beam, (you seem to be acting very tight-lipped regarding your mystery antenna) is really only "slightly better" then was your vertical omni, or any omni, for that matter.

Depending upon which beam you have, I'd wager those two SGM users would give you a good run for your money if their SGMs were installed a good 36' above the roof, with good quality coax, similar power and at 75+ miles, but that just comes from 35+ years of "useless" anecdotal
/ empirical experience.
icon12.gif



- Now, about that mysteriously absent Vector CST....
Stop hiding it from everyone and

POST

THE

FULL

VECTOR

CST

MODEL,

SHOCKWAVE!


I sure would like to see it, IF you even have it.

...or would it reveal the truth that your pseudo-collinear antenna is just a J-Pole.

Isn't is funny how Sirio's million dollar investment into antenna testing is accurate according to CDX-007 when it refers to the GM he owns but unexplainably lost any accuracy when it comes to their Vector that he has never owned? They used the same modeling software and test range for both antennas. You can't have it both ways Scott. Correct when it refers to your antenna and wrong when it refers to a design you don't understand.

It's more about your mysteriously being absent minded by ignoring the CST information yourself then me hiding anything. The CST model was thoroughly explained so that anyone with an interest can now see the Vector / Sigma gets its gain by keeping all radiated currents in correct phase along its entire length. Now if only your stubbornness could shrink in size by 80% like your signature line did, you might get the concept.
 
Sweet! 73 pages so far about another magical antenna. I think there should be an award for this thread and it's originator.

My handmade Rat-built dipole is magic and outperforms all others in my area ...but alas, it still looks like a dipole and that's not exciting enough to charge $195 for. Darn it. :tongue:
 
dont give up hope ratso !!!!!
i herd about a guy that puts a top hat and a coil on a starduster and sells it for $350 . LOL

put a top hat and a coil on that dipole with a few sheeple to sing it praises and im sure you can get $195 for it ... if not more :)
 
Isn't is funny how Sirio's million dollar investment into antenna testing is accurate according to CDX-007 when it refers to the GM he owns but unexplainably lost any accuracy when it comes to their Vector that he has never owned? They used the same modeling software and test range for both antennas. You can't have it both ways Scott. Correct when it refers to your antenna and wrong when it refers to a design you don't understand.

It's more about your mysteriously being absent minded by ignoring the CST information yourself then me hiding anything. The CST model was thoroughly explained so that anyone with an interest can now see the Vector / Sigma gets its gain by keeping all radiated currents in correct phase along its entire length. Now if only your stubbornness could shrink in size by 80% like your signature line did, you might get the concept.

Once again you intentionally misrepresent me and my statements in an attempt to mislead and misdirect.

I do respect Sirio regarding their knowledge, and especially their claim that their Vector is a coaxial J-POLE.
In this I
am in complete agreement with them.

Please discontinue referring to me or attempting to strike up a line of communication with me until you come clean about the Vector CST and either admit in a non-disingenuous manner that you weren't being truthful about actually having it, or post it.


Now,
 
Once again you intentionally misrepresent me and my statements in an attempt to mislead and misdirect.

I do respect Sirio regarding their knowledge, and especially their claim that their Vector is a coaxial J-POLE.
In this I
am in complete agreement with them.

Please discontinue referring to me or attempting to strike up a line of communication with me until you come clean about the Vector CST and either admit in a non-disingenuous manner that you weren't being truthful about actually having it, or post it.


Now,

Stop hiding it from everyone and

POST

THE

FULL

VECTOR

CST

MODEL,

SHOCKWAVE!



I sure would like to see it, IF you even have it.

...or would it reveal the truth that your pseudo-collinear antenna is just a J-Pole.

On the contrary Scott, the only one who needs to admit anything is yourself. You could start by admitting you've been acting obnoxious, stubborn, and disrespectful to me and others in the forum who can spot your BS. Who cares if Sirio calls the antenna a COAXIAL J-Pole, it's still not any J-Pole that you're at all familiar with and has almost twice the gain of a 1/2 wave.

As long as you continue to bagger me with your false signature line, I just may feel obligated to continue to point out how much you post about things you know so little about or how frequently you choose to ignore the facts in favor of controversy. It's one thing to not understand something, it's an entirely different situation to ignore those trying to educate you while you insist on calling them the liar.

Even if I posted the CST GIF file here, you would just say I photoshoped the 12 or 15 individual images contained in the file like you claimed when you were wrong about how it would look approaching a minimum current point in phase angle. I know how people like you work. You're never wrong even when you're completely wrong. You get nothing from me by acting like an ass.

You've been so sure in being wrong about the Sigma design for many years your ego can't allow you to admit it now and you'll stop at nothing to confuse others into to believing it could be your half wave J-Pole with its stock 2 db over a dipole. If you don't like me following you around pointing out all the flaws in your posts, you have some options. Stop incorrectly calling me a liar, learn the material on your own, or shut up and put up with my responses to your attempts to defame me.
 
"All radiated currents in phase"

Huh?

Antenna-101 says all current must have opposite polarity SOMEWHERE in order for radiation to take place.

Look up the basic explaination of a dipole.

Junk science.

Engineers at Sirio? Probably some guy in his garage hiding from the wife turning parts on a lathe.

The English on that site is pretty poor. Maybe I'll offer my services as translator.
 
"All radiated currents in phase"

Huh?

Antenna-101 says all current must have opposite polarity SOMEWHERE in order for radiation to take place.

Look up the basic explaination of a dipole.

Junk science.

Engineers at Sirio? Probably some guy in his garage hiding from the wife turning parts on a lathe.

The English on that site is pretty poor. Maybe I'll offer my services as translator.

Kamikaze, I'm not talking about the alternating phase of the RF source driving the antenna or the changes that creates in the radiated currents. I'm talking about the advanced design of some antennas longer then 1/2 wavelength that allows all currents along the antenna to radiate constructively. I understand what you say about needing opposite phase to radiate and CST displays that in the models. Showing this phase inversion as being on the left and right sides at the same horizontal plane. This is the radiation I refer to as being constructively in phase.

It is when the inversion takes place in the same plane as the radiation field, it is considered to be in a phase that is deconstructive to gain. In the case of the vertical 5/8 wave ground plane, this would be the area just above the base. Yes this radiation has an opposite phase on each side, more importantly is the lower radiation current is 180 degrees opposite of the primary radiation field in the vertical plane above it.

With respect to the engineers at Sirio, I think it's unfair to base their knowledge in the field of antennas on their use of what is a second or third language to them. You might want to check out the company a little more and discover all the CNC machines, anechoic chamber, software modeling, test range facilities, and degrees their engineers have earned first. This is what has earned them a full page article in one of Europe's top business publications for being successful in difficult times.
 
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