New thread to debate V-4000

[nosepc]

In the event you can figure out some fair an honest way to conduct a test, I'd bet you any dollar amount that the Vector design will beat the dipole by about 2 db in every well structured distant field test. You forget how many times I've already done this and stood behind it with a 30 day money back guarantee. Care to guess how many clients requested a refund after removing a dipole and installing this antenna? None! If you were even close to right on this one, I'd be giving refunds left and right. Stop acting like a moron, you've already lost the battle.

I'll also point out that at the very close distance of 1000 meters, the dipole just may have the edge. No one installing an antenna cares about increasing the field strength at 1000 meters more than they do at 50 miles where low angle gain rules. Customers don't pay to increase their signal around the block, they pay for more range in the distance where things like collinear radiators compress the beamwidth down on the horizon.

Shockwave, if antennas operating at 50 miles, they do in Fresnel Zone, not on the horizon.
This indicates that the antennas radiate to the clouds, not the horizon.
It is highly unlikely a range beyond the 30 horizontal miles, so it is in a desert area.

Greetings
Ernesto.

 

[nosepc]

I'm actually surprised this thread hasn't been locked long ago. There is no new information here that hasn't been covered in other existing threads already. It is just a place for someone to try and fail at making us angry. It was amusing to watch for the first hundred posts or so as he fumbled around contradicting himself multiple times, but now it is nothing more than a waste of forum space that would be much better filled by, well, nothing.


The DB

And I think that free discussion is very healthy for amateur radio, which is full of magical beliefs about inexitentes properties on the devices, many of them invented by petty commercial reasons.

WorldwideDX wish to remain what it is, a forum of free opinion, is the best for everyone.

I put tests have even shown CEBIK unfortunate mistakes, I respect, but made incredible mistakes in their calculations, how EZNEC modified drawings that can not be achieved with the actual software, in the case of J-pole antenna as I demonstrated.

Whoever accepts valid miscalculations, accepts fantastic properties in real objects.

Greetings to everyone.

 

[Shockwave]

NoSee, free discussion can be an excellent way for members to learn. I'm all for it. If this forum did not allow free discussion, you would not have had this opportunity to express all of the inaccurate ideas you've imagined. You have gone well beyond that freedom into an aggressive effort to confuse others in an attempt to make them just as misinformed as yourself. That's where this forum differs from the others. You've seen that when you become a nuisance to those who want to learn, you have been ejected from the forum to prevent the spread of false info. Another aspect of this forum I'm in full support of. If you feel you have any evidence to support your confused thoughts, share them or shut up before you turn everyone against you!

 

[nosepc]

Because the Dominator, J-pole and Zepp are electrically identical in function, and are similar to all other end-fed antennas in problems, pages on J-poles, Zepps, and end-fed verticals overlap.

In this case, V-4000 and simmilars, are Cone or Sleeve Decoupling.
The radials decouplin planes are bent upwards to form a vertical sleeve or cone. This could be done with a hollow pipe, making the feed coaxial.

This does not add any gain to the antenna, it's just a way to coax and possible decoupling irradiation currents are automatically deleted, how any coaxial sleeve, how to coax every quarter sleeves wavelength used as Balun , that's what they are. It has just 1/4 wave.

The information available on the internet about it, is beside extensive.

And I did not write, can give it as valid.

Greetings to everyone

 

[The DB]

WorldwideDX wish to remain what it is, a forum of free opinion, is the best for everyone.

This is a forum of fact, not opinion. If your opinions were based in fact then people would stand up for you... As you can see, that isn't happening, you stand alone.

I put tests have even shown CEBIK unfortunate mistakes, I respect, but made incredible mistakes in their calculations, how EZNEC modified drawings that can not be achieved with the actual software, in the case of J-pole antenna as I demonstrated.

So you are saying a dated program, that has known and well documented issues doing what you did in your test, namely the upward pointing radials on the Vector 4000 design, is absolute proof that one of the greatest minds in the history of radio is wrong? Really? If you are going to make such a claim why don't you use something a bit more modern, such as CST, or CadFeko, either of which I'm sure are beyond your price range and skill level to use. You also need to demonstrate that you are worthy of being in his league, something you have clearly shown is not the case...

Whoever accepts valid miscalculations, accepts fantastic properties in real objects.

You are good at describing yourself, keep it up...


The DB

 

[Robb]

What did you expect, DB?
His grid dip meter is going to eat your antenna analyzer . . .
Oooooh!

 

[Shockwave]

Because the Dominator, J-pole and Zepp are electrically identical in function, and are similar to all other end-fed antennas in problems, pages on J-poles, Zepps, and end-fed verticals overlap.

In this case, V-4000 and simmilars, are Cone or Sleeve Decoupling.
The radials decouplin planes are bent upwards to form a vertical sleeve or cone. This could be done with a hollow pipe, making the feed coaxial.

This does not add any gain to the antenna, it's just a way to coax and possible decoupling irradiation currents are automatically deleted, how any coaxial sleeve, how to coax every quarter sleeves wavelength used as Balun , that's what they are. It has just 1/4 wave.

The information available on the internet about it, is beside extensive.

And I did not write, can give it as valid.

Greetings to everyone

Since J-poles only use the bottom 1/4 for matching and the Vector uses the bottom 1/4 wave to radiate CMC's, your argument is invalid. On the other hand what you have described is partially responsible for what takes place inside the cone. You pointed out that end fed verticals suffer from heavy CMC by using W8JI's article. Now that it's been pointed out that CMC could be useful, you refuse to accept the reality that this design has made effective use of the CMC by allowing them to radiate in phase with the upper vertical. If you actually understood antennas remotely close to the level you imitate, you would have understood the 90 degree phase shift inside the cone and how that automatically brings the exposed portion of the vertical radiator into a constructive phase with respect to the CMC radiating from the outside of the cone.

All of this is clearly shown in the antennas radiation current model provided by CST. Because you have nothing to stand on, you attempt to downplay the CST evidence that absolutely proves you wrong. You would love to convince people that it's just an animated cartoon rather than the direct output of a $2,500 software analysis done on the model. You have chosen a losing battle here by trying to debunk fact with myth like many "J-Pole experts" before you. Now if you could just get some real world field tests to support your imagination, you might be able to fool a few people.

 

[nosepc]

This is the Sirio GainMaster Antenna . She has no opposite phase currents.

Tne Vector 4000 have powerfuls opposites currents.

If you follow the green color seen is the complete phase inversion and zero irradiation of the antenna, you will see that this antenna radiates it completely. This field does not exist in the GM

The CST model of a SIRIO VECTOR 4000 antenna diplay this in slow motion in the following animation.. Not see the who will not see





There are more individual images ..




time during which the antenna irradiation is auto canceled



Of course I see what you not see, but you confuse half-wave irradiation with the cone.Both are outdated and not in phase as you say.



See that cone leaves a green color that is the variation of field AND PHASE CHANGE.
Therefore, the cone is in antiphase(yellow & blues colors) with the rest of the antenna.

In any case the emission of the cone gives loss to the antenna.

In this picture, we see that the phases are perfectly changed inside and at the bottom of the cone, a part is blue, the other yellow, or that are not in phase

if they were on stage. the red color would be the left side and blue on the right, however are extrapolated, with an inverted phase of 180 degrees, so if there is emission is 180 degrees out of phase, which makes NEGATIVE

if so be collinear, and in phase, CST modeling both colors would be on the same side.

greetings.

Ernesto

 

[Shockwave]

I'm sorry but only an idiot would confuse the two points throughout any sinewave where they cross phase with zero current as a cancellation of radiation. Not to mention this is the second time you've made the same mistake. You'll notice the GM also has these points where little to no radiation is taking place. Do you think that indicates currents have been canceled? Don't try to manipulate the info to meet your distorted views. Explain the two separate and in phase radiation currents shown in CST when the antenna is actually being excited by RF current. Not when the field is collapsing through the crossover point in any given cycle of RF.

 

[nosepc]

Shockwave.

The Dominator antenna CST animation, look like ordinary transmission line, with conflicting and oposite currents.

That does not happen in Gainmaster antenna CST animation.

Greetings.

 

[Shockwave]

The only appreciable currents of opposing phase are confined within the cone. Once you start viewing the CST model at the maximum current of the applied sinewave rather than the minimum point, you can begin to explain how the two separate and in phase radiation currents along all exposed surfaces are not the "non apparent collinear" Cebik described. WE ARE ALL WAITING.......

 

[nosepc]

The only appreciable currents of opposing phase are confined within the cone. Once you start viewing the CST model at the maximum current of the applied sinewave rather than the minimum point, you can begin to explain how the two separate and in phase radiation currents along all exposed surfaces are not the "non apparent collinear" Cebik described. WE ARE ALL WAITING.......

Shockwave, with all my respect..

in my #398 message ....... not see this ... rather, the opposite ..

greetings Ernesto.

 

[Shockwave]

With all due respect (none), it comes as no surprise you can not see the facts. You've spent so much time manipulating them that you've gone in complete denial over the most important images in the entire model. The ones where maximum current is exciting the radiator. You avoid my questions altogether since they would absolutely prove your ideas are false myth. You won't even touch my question about the two separate and in phase radiation currents the CST model shows because YOU CAN'T. However, you're sure everyone else including Cebik is wrong. You're approaching the definition of insanity.

 

[bob85]

those currents do exist in the gainmaster, they are inside the coax that forms the lower half of the antenna not shown on the animation, it looks like sirio modeled a 5/8wave wire dipole,

i don't understand cst, can you explain what you see in this picture nosee?

 

[nosepc]

see you the opposite and destructive courrents?? Or you are blinded??

This courrents are inexitent in animation of CST Gainmaster antenna.

greetings.

With all due respect (none), it comes as no surprise you can not see the facts. You've spent so much time manipulating them that you've gone in complete denial over the most important images in the entire model. The ones where maximum current is exciting the radiator. You avoid my questions altogether since they would absolutely prove your ideas are false myth. You won't even touch my question about the two separate and in phase radiation currents the CST model shows because YOU CAN'T. However, you're sure everyone else including Cebik is wrong. You're approaching the definition of insanity.

Just
looking at the colors on the display doesn't tell you everything because it is
near-field field intensity, and doesn't necessarily correspond with far-field
radiation.

"When the mast and feedline is included in the model, the "Dominator" falls apart. The exception to this is if we add a groundplane at the junction of the cone and the mast and coax.

Many antennas get modeled without proper representation of feedlines." - W8JI. -

"I was an engineer at Avanti when the Sigma IV design was being built.
It's a J pole- nothing more and nothing less. No magic," - Dale W4OP -