Newbee w/ D-104 T-UG9 Question

[Alabama Buckeye]

Hello all. Alabama Buckeye here. A native to Alabama the Alabama Buckeye is a shrub with surprisingly large nuts, in comparison to Ohio Buckeye tree.
Decades ago I went by the handle "Buckeye Weatherman". My first duty station was Rickenbacker AFB, outside Columbus Ohio. I drove home to Tennessee monthly using my first CB radio, a Realistic 9 channel/ 9 Crystal CB radio small enough to fit in the ash tray slot of a '72 Gremlin. A great all night ride listening to skip from all over the country latched onto by the SS 102" whip antenna. I've been On and Off CBer since.

My primary antenna these daze is an Imax 2000. I'm on my 2nd, after the first one fought against oak tree branches, during tropical storm winds, and lost. I'm still struggling to perfect the gamma match tuning on both of my center fed Sirio dipoles. The SD27 Vertical worked reasonably well but never better than the Imax. The SY3 (Yagi) aka SY27-3 is still on a short 12'pole under going fine gamma match tuning before rising up a 36' push-up mast.

Now, the big ask. I need help with issues on my D-104 UG9 Golden Eagle. It doesn't have a R/E switch which would lead an ignorant such as myself to believe it's "E"lectronic ready. If that were true and my wiring is also correct, Wt/shield/blk/blu/red, it should work smoothly with my Cobra 2000GTL. But not a crackle of audio out of the receive and no xmt indication on key down. The original Cobra Coffin mic works perfectly.

This mic is believed to never have been in service. The 6 wire end showed no evidence of a connector ever installed. The coiled brown cord is shiny new and the base had, willing to bet, the original EverReady 9V battery. 46 years and no leakage.

Any insight appreciated. Any wiring diagram of UG9 upper stand switching mechanism would be most gratefully appreciated. I see absolutely no switching mechanism as is said to exist with UG9 in the base. The sheet metal covered amplifier unit includes the potentiometer and battery. The base also includes a rack for 10 tabs/cross ties.

Equipment Used near Daily:
Ranger RCI 2970N4 Big shoes and socks
Stryker SR 955HP
Cobra 2000GTL
Dave Made M80, M200
Fat Boy 8X SC2879

Shelved Equipment
Ranger RCI 2950HPC - No Umph
Stryker SR 655HP - No SSB
Cobra 29 LTD Chrm - In Protective Custody

 

[999]

 

[nomadradio]

The 6-wire cord and the upgraded switch inside the type "9" mike are what make it different from the "8" version of the D104 base. Technically, only the head is a D104. The original non-amplified base was the "G" stand. The transistor preamp made this mike the "TUG-8". "T", as in transistorized, "U" as in universal. That's what the "E/R" switch was about. Version "8" had only a four-wire cord. One problem with this mike would occur with the low-price AM-only 23-channel CB radios that had the 'audio' pin of the mike socket wired directly to the receiver volume control. A stock mike would simply cut the connection to the audio wire in receive mode. The D104 would short the audio wire to ground in receive mode. This created a ground loop with the speaker audio, since the mike also had the receiver-speaker audio passing through it, to cut the speaker circuit while transmitting. The result was a deafening squall from the speaker in receive. The helpful rumor of the day was to insert a resistor in the audio wire. But a resistance high enough to stop the ground-loop feedback would cut the mike's audio level down equal to a straight mike. Not useful.

The switch in the "8" version didn't have enough sections to mimic the straight mike and open the connection to the audio wire while receiving.

In this era, 23-channel radios got more sophisticated. The big thing of the era was to eliminate the transmit/receive relay from the radio. This was called "electronic switching" in the day's advertising copy. EF Johnson had a large share of the market, and they accomplished this by feeding 12 Volts up one wire in the mike cord, and feeding it back down one wire for receive, and another wire for transmit. Right away, you'll see that for audio, ground, hot, receive and transmit you now need five wires. But wait, there's more. You had to shut off the receiver speaker in transmit mode. Takes one more wire, for a total of six. The Johnson radios used a five-pin mike plug, and the metal body of the plug provided the speaker ground for a total of six wire connections. Astatic and Turner both upgraded their mikes with a fancier switch and the additional wires in the cord. Likewise, the new, fancier switch would open the connection to the audio wire in receive mode now, rather than grounding it. This fixed the "squall" problem in AM-only models.

I had customers back then who wanted to use their four-wire D104 on a radio with the "receive squeal" problem. I would tell him he needed the six-wire version of the mike to match his radio. Typical flustered reply was "The mike socket only has four pins". And I would explain that the fancier switch inside the mike is what he needs, but only a six-wire mike has that switch inside it. Told one or two of them I would happily install a four-wire cord on his six-wire mike if it made him feel better. Just bring me the mike with that upgraded switch in it. Didn't get a lot of laughs for that one.

Whups, just re-read your post. The "Golden Eagle" is a unique design. Different from the TUG-8, but not at all the same as the TUG-9. Sort of an in-between design. I'll see if we have anything on it, but probably not. Sold all of those mikes I had a while back, so I can't just pop off the bottom cover and look for a factory diagram.

73

 

[nomadradio]

Whups! Looks like I conflated the "TUG-9" with the "TUP-9" press-bar mike. The "P" is the one I was thinking about.

Thanks for the diagram, 999.

73

 

[Alabama Buckeye]

Thanks Triple 9s for the schematic. Nomad, I sure hope you can dig up something on the Golden Eagle to help out with my "unique design" dilemma.
The marriage between the Golden Eagle and Cobra 2000GTL has been put on hold, until the uniqueness has been resolved.
"Unique" is depressing. I could live with a unique 10 karate diamond; or a 3rd party candidate winning the Presidency.

Surely it's a simple matter of a differing connection of 6 wire mike cable?

 

[Alabama Buckeye]

 

[Alabama Buckeye]

Cobra 2000GTL
Radio Connection​

1- Audio 2- Shield 3- RX 4- Common 5- TX

Astatic D-104 T-UG9
Microphone as currently wired, supported by qsl.net/.../astatic...pdf; but inoperable
WH-1 SH-2 BlK-3 BLu-4 RED-5 YEL-N/C
​

 

[Wire Weasel]

I used to work with the D104's daily. Refurbished them and specialized in making from scratch and installing the Tweety Bird Noise Toys. From memory on the 6 Wires - the Blue needs to go with Shield and Yellow is No Connection. I have never seen a White & Shield connection and I have never seen the Yellow go to anything.

 

[Alabama Buckeye]

I used to work with the D104's daily. Refurbished them and specialized in making from scratch and installing the Tweety Bird Noise Toys. From memory on the 6 Wires - the Blue needs to go with Shield and Yellow is No Connection. I have never seen a White & Shield connection and I have never seen the Yellow go to anything.

I too am having a Senior Moment. Do I understand you have an answer to my Golden Eagle issue? Connect Blue (common) with Shield to where? #2 or #4 pins on mic or jumper #5 tie to #8 on the base tie rack of 9?
Thanks for attending.

 

[Wire Weasel]

It is simply this:
1) Blue & Shield
2) White
3) Red
4) Black
Yellow No Connection
.
Don't change anything else. I have never seen a case where a Lolipop ever needed any internal modifications to work on a radio. Only a "Switch To R" on older Relay-Keyed radios with a TUG-8, and then determine the wiring arrangement to the plug.
.
And BTW .... If you have this brand new never used Golden Eagle in New Condition without a speck on it, perhaps even with the box it came in - well I know it's pretty and all - but I wouldn't talk on it. You can sell it for $500 or more.
If you insist on keeping it because you have plenty of money - if it were me, I would never use it. There are shit tons of microphones in the world to talk on. I would put it in a glass case and place it on a shelf in your shack to look at. The issue with these was the wafer-thin 18k gold plating. The oil on your fingers will discolor and wear through the finish causing pitting. You can look at them wrong and they will scratch. You have to wear soft cloth gloves at all times when using or handling. Gently clean with maybe Windex and a new shammy. Better yet ..... never touch them. Just put on some gloves and put it in a glass case and look at it on the shelf and show it off to your friends and NO !!! ..... they can't touch it.

 

[999]

If memory serves me, the yellow wire is for relay controlled radios and that's why it doesn't get used in "modern" radios.

 

[nomadradio]

Yellow wire is for EF Johnson radios.

Period.

Their 5-pin mike plug had a 12-Volt hot wire on the blue, feeding 12 Volts to either transmit or receive wire. The speaker ground circuit gets opened while transmitting by the yellow wire.

No other radio on the planet used that yellow wire.

73

 

[Alabama Buckeye]

It is simply this:
1) Blue & Shield
2) White
3) Red
4) Black
Yellow No Connection
.
Don't change anything else. I have never seen a case where a Lolipop ever needed any internal modifications to work on a radio. Only a "Switch To R" on older Relay-Keyed radios with a TUG-8, and then determine the wiring arrangement to the plug.
.
And BTW .... If you have this brand new never used Golden Eagle in New Condition without a speck on it, perhaps even with the box it came in - well I know it's pretty and all - but I wouldn't talk on it. You can sell it for $500 or more.
If you insist on keeping it because you have plenty of money - if it were me, I would never use it. There are shit tons of microphones in the world to talk on. I would put it in a glass case and place it on a shelf in your shack to look at. The issue with these was the wafer-thin 18k gold plating. The oil on your fingers will discolor and wear through the finish causing pitting. You can look at them wrong and they will scratch. You have to wear soft cloth gloves at all times when using or handling. Gently clean with maybe Windex and a new shammy. Better yet ..... never touch them. Just put on some gloves and put it in a glass case and look at it on the shelf and show it off to your friends and NO !!! ..... they can't touch it.

Thanks Wirey Weasel. I do intend to take care with the Golden Eagle and maybe handle with velvet gloves. I saw one of those glass cased Golden Eagles. Asking price was $1,770. In the short time I have remaining I intend on using mine.
On the matter of wiring, perhaps we've our wires crossed. You're thinking 4 wire Cobra?

Cobra 2000GTK Radio Connection


Astatic D-104 T-UG9
Microphone
WH-1 SH-2 BlK-3 BLu-4 RED-5 YEL-N/C​

According to my understanding of the purpose of the 5 wires, yellow omitted, from the 6 wire Golden Eagle it is properly fitting the Cobra 2000. But it don't work.

 

[Wire Weasel]

Hi AB, My bad. Saw the 2000 all along but thought I saw you above saying it was a 4pin. I never owned one so I didn't know. Here ya go:
6 Wire Astatic to 5 Pin Cobra
1) White
2) Shield
3) Black
4) Blue
5) Red
yellow NC

 

[Wire Weasel]

Hi AB ..... Never Enough Coffee. Okay ..... I see in your post above my last one that you have the wiring pattern and it's not working.
Now the mic is suspect. - Rewire the Gold Boy to another radio - whatever else you have around and see if it's working on other radios. If it doesn't work on another common radio also, then I would suspect that one of the components has gone bad on the mic's little circuit board. You know the thing is 50 or more years old and one or more of the disc capacitors could have dried up. There are also resistors and the amplifier transistor. If you are unable to test these components then I would take it to a local technician and question the guy as to whether he is sure he can diagnose the problem and to take utmost care in handling the mic to protect the finish. Good luck !!