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Noise filter

Lt Dan

Mud Duck
Aug 31, 2009
13
0
11
Carteret County NC
Hi, I have some engine noise whenever I turn on my engine (obviously), it changes speed with the engine speed and when the engine is off it goes away.

I know I need a noise filter but I don't know where to start.

What brand?
how big?
etc...

Keeping in mind I'm running a Northstar 450 BFM with mosfet finals, so I need alot of power vs a regular radio.


Thanks guys
 

Disconnect the antena to check which way noise is coming. If noise will disappear it means, that it is coming through antenna, so you need to locate part of your car which is generating the noise, than put the filter on it.
If noise is coming to the radio through power cables put filter on the cable as cloce to the radio as you can. I put into my radio :)
Mike
 
Disconnect the antena to check which way noise is coming. If noise will disappear it means, that it is coming through antenna, so you need to locate part of your car which is generating the noise, than put the filter on it.
If noise is coming to the radio through power cables put filter on the cable as cloce to the radio as you can. I put into my radio :)
Mike

i think its coming from my alternator...

yeah when i uplug the coax is DOES NOT go away
 
You may not believe it, but that's noise not going away with the antenna is better than if it did. Filtering the power line is much simpler than the antenna type noise.
All nise is either AC or a 'pulsing' thingy, and botha re handled the same way. Basically, don't let any AC get to the radio. A very handy thing about capacitors is that the let AC get through them and no DC. So use a capacitor to 're-direct' any AC to ground instead of going through that radio. A capacitor from the 'hot' (+) wire to ground (-), does that very nicely and still doesn't provide a direct short for DC. To a completely ridiculous point, a bigger capacitor is better than a little capacitor when doing this. It can get a little 'sticky' if you let it, because how much AC/noise a capacitor will let get through is related to the frequency of that noise. There are formulas for that if you just have to know, otherwise, just use a higher value capacitor and don't worry about it. A sort of 'average' capacitance value for noise is something around 0.1 uF. If you wanna use a 1 farad capacitor, be my guest, but they get sort of expensive and dangerous. The other way capacitors are rated is by how much voltage they can handle. That's a real "iffy" thing if the voltage is not constant. If the voltage can surge, you want a cap that can handle that amount of surging voltage. So a minimum of 2 or 3 times the applied voltage is barely adequate, sort of. For 12 volt systems, a voltage rating of 50 volts is NOT too much by any means (especially for those 1 farad caps, even 100 volts wouldn't be too much). So look for capacitors that are at least 0.1 uF, @ 50 V. It may take more than one, or 2, just depends on the noise. Ceramic disk capacitors are very common in that size, and are cheap. There are polarized capacitors that can be much larger and cost a bit more, but they HAVE to be connected correctly or they certainly will pop no matter what the voltage ratings are. Stick with the ceramic caps, they can go either way (kinky, huh?).
Most cheaper line filters are just a bunch of capacitors in some kind of container. They work.
There's anothe electrical doo-hicky that can help. It's called a 'choke', and it lets DC through if and stops AC. A choke is just a sort of large coil. It has to handle all the current that whatever it's connected to will draw. That means that the wire used to make that coil is larger than you might think. The secondary windings of a 12 volt transformer are an example of that 'largeness'. The wire used is typically 10 to 100 times as large as the wire in the primary side of a transformer. that's one source for a choke if you happen to have a few dozen old transformers laying around. If not, then you can make them fairly easily, there's even a thingy about that on here somewhere.
A choke goes -in- the 'hot' (+) wire, NOT to ground. If you combine a capacitor and a choke you get what's called an 'LC' filter, and you will find them on just about every power supply that's filtered, all of them. So in effect, you are just adding a common power supply filter to your radio.
There ya' go, more than you ever wanted to know about filters. But it do come in handy, especially if you're as cheap as I am...
- 'Doc
 
You may not believe it, but that's noise not going away with the antenna is better than if it did. Filtering the power line is much simpler than the antenna type noise.
All nise is either AC or a 'pulsing' thingy, and botha re handled the same way. Basically, don't let any AC get to the radio. A very handy thing about capacitors is that the let AC get through them and no DC. So use a capacitor to 're-direct' any AC to ground instead of going through that radio. A capacitor from the 'hot' (+) wire to ground (-), does that very nicely and still doesn't provide a direct short for DC. To a completely ridiculous point, a bigger capacitor is better than a little capacitor when doing this. It can get a little 'sticky' if you let it, because how much AC/noise a capacitor will let get through is related to the frequency of that noise. There are formulas for that if you just have to know, otherwise, just use a higher value capacitor and don't worry about it. A sort of 'average' capacitance value for noise is something around 0.1 uF. If you wanna use a 1 farad capacitor, be my guest, but they get sort of expensive and dangerous. The other way capacitors are rated is by how much voltage they can handle. That's a real "iffy" thing if the voltage is not constant. If the voltage can surge, you want a cap that can handle that amount of surging voltage. So a minimum of 2 or 3 times the applied voltage is barely adequate, sort of. For 12 volt systems, a voltage rating of 50 volts is NOT too much by any means (especially for those 1 farad caps, even 100 volts wouldn't be too much). So look for capacitors that are at least 0.1 uF, @ 50 V. It may take more than one, or 2, just depends on the noise. Ceramic disk capacitors are very common in that size, and are cheap. There are polarized capacitors that can be much larger and cost a bit more, but they HAVE to be connected correctly or they certainly will pop no matter what the voltage ratings are. Stick with the ceramic caps, they can go either way (kinky, huh?).
Most cheaper line filters are just a bunch of capacitors in some kind of container. They work.
There's anothe electrical doo-hicky that can help. It's called a 'choke', and it lets DC through if and stops AC. A choke is just a sort of large coil. It has to handle all the current that whatever it's connected to will draw. That means that the wire used to make that coil is larger than you might think. The secondary windings of a 12 volt transformer are an example of that 'largeness'. The wire used is typically 10 to 100 times as large as the wire in the primary side of a transformer. that's one source for a choke if you happen to have a few dozen old transformers laying around. If not, then you can make them fairly easily, there's even a thingy about that on here somewhere.
A choke goes -in- the 'hot' (+) wire, NOT to ground. If you combine a capacitor and a choke you get what's called an 'LC' filter, and you will find them on just about every power supply that's filtered, all of them. So in effect, you are just adding a common power supply filter to your radio.
There ya' go, more than you ever wanted to know about filters. But it do come in handy, especially if you're as cheap as I am...
- 'Doc

believe it or not, but this was not too much for me. I appriciate you taking the time to type all that out. AT THE VERY LEAST I'm somewhat enlightened. But on a serious note I thank you again. That was very helpful. Hopefully I can get rid of that damn noise. All the locals know about getting rid of the noise is wiring directly to the battery which I've done scence the beginning anyway. I think it has to do with having an 83 for van. My friend says fords are very bad about this.

thanks again(y)
 
Chevys used to have a large capacitor (condensor) bolted right on the back of the alternator for this very reason, well for the AM radios that where installed.
 
It might be were your radio is hooked up. Try to change were the ground is mounted.
Ive had problems with alternator's sending noise into my stereo, mabye your alternator is the prob.
 
One thing to look at.

Have a shop with a modern charging system tester look at your alternator's output.

They will check it for maximum power under load and look at ripple in the DC output. If there is a lot of ripple and the peak power is down the alternator could have one bad rectifier diode. It will still keep the vehicle charged unless you sit at a red light with the defrogger, wipers and lights on.

The ripple will show up as whine in your radio and give you a nasty hangover.
 
so let me see if I am looking at this correctly. on this home made filter, there is a black wire coming out (that goes to the positive side of the battery) and the 2 ends of the red line are inline from where your 12+ source is to the radio?
 
No, not quite right. One of those red wires goes to the (+) side of the battery, the other red wire goes to your radio. The black wire (-) goes to the negative side of the battery, or the vehicle's ground (assuming that the the thing is a negative ground to start with).
- 'Doc
 
so let me see if I am looking at this correctly. on this home made filter, there is a black wire coming out (that goes to the positive side of the battery) and the 2 ends of the red line are inline from where your 12+ source is to the radio?

Just like it says under the last photo: the red lead connected to the capacitor goes to the radio. The other red lead goes to the battery. The black lead goes to ground. Keep connections at the radio end as short as is practicable.
 

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