OFF FREQUENCY ON SSB ALSO OFF ON AM?

[Sonar]

My uniden Madison seems to be off frequency.
On SSB it's easy to tell . I will clarify onto the locals whom for a large majority are operating new hf's.
If I'm correct those transceivers are on frequency. My clarifiers unlocked so I'm in no rush to have the Madison aligned.
My madison has the fasttrack*09 frequency counter where the digital clock used to be.
When using my ear to determine the frequency of a station my counter inevitably reads two hz high at least with those stations I believe to be on frequency (27.3852).
I don't use the madison on AM often but when I do should I turn the clarifier to say to 27.2852 instead of 27.2850?
I find that it's much more difficult to determine a couple of hz's off on AM (at least on my madison)where as SSB two hz's is easily heard.
As I mentioned i don't use the rig on AM often but when I do I'd like to be transmitting on frequency. If my clarifier wasn't unlocked I'd have it aligned immediately

Once again I'm being verbose.

When a transceivers off on SSB will it inevitably be off on AM or other modes if that radio has them (FM/CW)?
P.s.
Not to confuse anyone with a madison and fast track*09 frequency counter, my rig does indeed show a 1.5 kHz shift/offset - on lsb and + on USB. I originally posted I was off two(2) khz but someone explained the last digit on my rigs frequency counter is hz not kc's so I edited my post.. THANKS

 

[Robb]

If you didn't mess with the internal adjustments; then something has changed. One thing that changes the freq is a large shift in temps. But it is not a large change; but that depends upon what brand/model of radio it is. Galaxy radios can shift huge amounts with temp change; while a Uniden chassis radio (such as yours) will change very little comparatively.

Ham rigs are more accurate than CB radios - that is true. But that does not mean that they are infallible. Seen them up to 100hz off - or more. Not uncommon at all.

But if your radio has shifted; it could be due to a number of things, such as the xtal(s) showing their age. But that usually happens slowly.

Might also be the built-in freq counter, as these also have their own xtal osc circuit that can change vastly with temp shifts. Different stability standard than your radio has. Bet that is the problem; but not entirely sure. One way to know is to see where your clarifier is positioned the same when you talk to others. Has it changed much?

Could be that their radios have shifted too - from temp changes. When the weather gets cold or hot; the freq will shift both ways. Count on it - just like gravity.

Sometimes it is very helpful to be 'verbose'. In fact, I wish that when people try to troubleshoot their radios here on this forum that they would bring in/mention all of the facts they notice, as this makes it easier to diagnose the problems.

 

[Sonar]

If you didn't mess with the internal adjustments; then something has changed. One thing that changes the freq is a large shift in temps. But it is not a large change; but that depends upon what brand/model of radio it is. Galaxy radios can shift huge amounts with temp change; while a Uniden chassis radio (such as yours) will change very little comparatively.

Ham rigs are more accurate than CB radios - that is true. But that does not mean that they are infallible. Seen them up to 100hz off - or more. Not uncommon at all.

But if your radio has shifted; it could be due to a number of things, such as the xtal(s) showing their age. But that usually happens slowly.

Might also be the built-in freq counter, as these also have their own xtal osc circuit that can change vastly with temp shifts. Different stability standard than your radio has. Bet that is the problem; but not entirely sure. One way to know is to see where your clarifier is positioned the same when you talk to others. Has it changed much?

Could be that their radios have shifted too - from temp changes. When the weather gets cold or hot; the freq will shift both ways. Count on it - just like gravity.

Sometimes it very helpful to be 'verbose'. In fact, I wish that when people try to troubleshoot their radios here on this forum that they would bring in/mention all of the facts they notice, as this makes it easier to diagnose the problems.

Thanks Robb. Glad I posited the pic of my frequency counter and where it is when I clarify and get the large amount of stations on frequency.
As you can see it's a six digit counter.
Here's where my lack of knowledge shows.
The last digit is off by two.
Does that last digit represent Killa Cycles (kc's)?
It shows 27.3837. That's because of this counter unlike most shows.the 1.5 SSB offset.
As to my question, if a transceivers such as a madison is off on SSB does that mean it's off on AM?

 

[fourstringburn]

If you really insist on having near perfect readout on SSB, The adjustments for this is in the PLL section of the radio, but you really need a good reference tone and plastic trimmer screwdrivers like Radioshack used to sell for TV adjustments. You should be able to download a service manual which will show you the alignment points with a little research.

Probably best if you had someone with the experience and equipment do it for you.

 

[Sonar]

If you really insist on having near perfect readout on SSB, The adjustments for this is in the PLL section of the radio, but you really need a good reference tone and plastic trimmer screwdrivers like Radioshack used to sell for TV adjustments. You should be able to download a service manual which will show you the alignment points with a little research.

Probably best if you had someone with the experience and equipment do it for you.

Thanks. So my madison is two kHz off not kc's.
I'm assuming that's a big difference?

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

The trimmer capacitors that tune the reference crystals may need a slight tweaking. They change value over the years on older gear.

 

[vkrules]

P.s.
Not to confuse anyone with a madison and fast track*09 frequency counter, my rig does indeed show a 1.5 kHz shift/offset - on lsb and + on USB.

Not sure what you are saying.
So you are 200hzs off?
Frequency counters will show actual frequency as apposed to carrier frequency. i.e lsb will be 1.5 low usb will be 1.5 high .with am in the middle (carrier frequency) ( the difference between a counter as apposed to a display. most are displays not counters)
Modern cbs show carrier freq on their displays.
HF sets can be adjusted for the offset to show either carrier or actual frequencies
if you go back about 15 years hf sets would show actual freq and would be out 1.5 if you used them on CB The norm these days is to show carrier freq .

And to answer your question no Am wont necessarily be out if ssb is.

Also am and especially Fm are much wider modes and 100 to 200 hzs wont make a rats arse bit of difference to you.

 

[fourstringburn]

Thanks. So my madison is two kHz off not kc's.
I'm assuming that's a big difference?

Kilohertz and Kilocycle are the same. Kilocycle is an older term.

The first decimal point on a frequency counter is the Mhz followed by KHz. The next decimal point numbers are 100 Hz or .1 Khz.

Just like the decimal columns we learned in school, millions, thousands, hundreds, tens, ones.

 

[vkrules]

Hope I haven't confused you more. Looks like you maybe 200hzs( .2 khz) off frequency not 2khz ( sometime written as kcs)

 

[fourstringburn]

So if your frequency counter reads 27.285.2, what does the .2 represent?

 

[vkrules]

200 hz. .2kc or if you prefer .2khz

 

[Beetle]

27 million, 285 thousand, 200 Hertz. Or Cycles per Second.

 

[vkrules]

This would be like second nature if the US updated to metric!

 

[fourstringburn]

Post # 10 was for Sonar to answer.

 

[Sonar]

If you really insist on having near perfect readout on SSB, The adjustments for this is in the PLL section of the radio, but you really need a good reference tone and plastic trimmer screwdrivers like Radioshack used to sell for TV adjustments. You should be able to download a service manual which will show you the alignment points with a little research.

Probably best if you had someone with the experience and equipment do it for you.

Is it common for a transceiver like a madison to be off by a few Hz's? It doesn't bother me. I on SSB but I'd like to set the frequency correctly on AM if it is indeed off.
If a transceiver is off on SSB will it be off as it is on SSB.
I just can't tell on AM as two Hz up or down doesn't seem to make much of a difference on my recive.
I hope it doesn't make noticeable difference on AlM transmitt .