Well...all the connectors are new. Bought my cables rom dx engineering pre-made. I tested the rg8 coax with my tester for continuity or shorts. All seemed ok.
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penetrator 500
- Thread starter sheldonth
- Start date
Wow, it seems like you are having a real problem with the antenna.
Use your multi meter and make sure you are showing a short from the center pin of the SO-239 to the center radiator AND to the ground radials. Also make sure you are showing a short between the threads of the SO-239 and the ground radials. Unhook the shorting rod from either end and make sure there is NO continuity between the threads on the SO-239/ground radials and the center radiator.
Yes, 4.5 feet is too low. I don't know what height you plan on using the antenna at but I would test the antenna at least 1/2 wave length above ground and away from any other metal. I know it is a PITA, but I test @ height. Even if you get it tuned at the test height, it will usually change when you get it into your operating position. And from what you have said, it sounds like you are a perfectionist (nothing wrong with that).
Since you said you now have an antenna tuner (analyzer), you don't have to use your radio any more. The analyzer will put out sufficient wattage to tune your antenna. If all of the aforementioned tests come back OK, does your analyzer have Bluetooth?
If so, use a double PL-259 and screw it directly into the bottom of the antenna - this will eliminate the coax. My RigExpert AA-55 Zoom does and I use a program on my Android phone called Antscope2 to operate the analyzer remotely. If your Computer is Bluetooth enabled, they have Windows\ Mac\ and Ubuntu installations as well.
If not, no problem. If you are positive that your coax is good - no shorts or opens, you can re-calibrate your analyzer to use your coax as a "lead in" which effectively makes it part of the analyzer so whatever effect it has on the reading is nulled out. You can make your own calibration loads or buy them pre-made quite cheaply. If you have a dummy load, you attach your coax to the analyzer, and attach the dummy load to the other end and re-calibrate the analyzer.
Which ever way works best for you, the idea is to eliminate the coax (or the influences of the coax) on your reading.
Once that is done and your antenna is @ height, I would adjust the analyzer to get X=0 and see what the frequency is. My guess is that the matching rod is too long and will need to be shortened. This is accomplished by a shorting bar across both sides of the matching rod starting at the top. This can be done with 2 pieces of aluminum that "sandwich" the matching rod (both sides) between them. The ground radials should have a OAL of 105". Also, check what your reading is at the desired operating frequency. What is X = ? and is it positive or negative?
BTW, can you post some pictures of what the antenna currently looks like after you made the changes?
Good Luck
Greg T
WDX-945 (Jazz Singer) Upper Peninsula of Michigan
You say you bought an antenna tuner, what you need is an antenna analyzer. With it, you can see the actual frequency that the antenna has the best SWR, which could be anywhere at this point, but it's the only way to tell.
Maybe you are not aware of how to use one, but the radio is not involved, and you never transmit into an antenna analyzer, it's a very sensitive instrument.
At this point, you may not even need a dummy load either, but they are useful for many things.......... most of the time as a paperweight.
Saying that there is no one in your area that can help you..... there are hams everywhere, you just have to know how to find them.
http://www.arrl.org/fcc/search ......is the first place to go. Fill in the blanks where it says "City", "State", "ZIP Code", "Any", "All", and lastly hit "Search". If at first, you don't succeed, use another nearby Zip Code.
Something should come up .... a name with an address nearby would be a start, and they might even help for free! Or give you the name of someone else.
It's just a simple antenna, not knowing what you are doing and having problems kind of makes you want to learn more. When I did my Penetrator 9 years ago I had my antenna 8 feet off the ground using a 3-foot jumper and my analyzer. But my matching and shorting rods were different than yours but shorter than the original long ones. I now have a Colossal which weighs 16 lbs, and the Penetrator is 9 lbs.
If "push comes to shove", try making the old-style "matching rod" out of solid
14-gauge wire, or something a little bit bigger Lowe's carries something that would probably work. Look at the drawing on the instructions, it can't be that hard, it's just a solid wire bent in a loop.
Hope you get it figured out.....................
Maybe you are not aware of how to use one, but the radio is not involved, and you never transmit into an antenna analyzer, it's a very sensitive instrument.
At this point, you may not even need a dummy load either, but they are useful for many things.......... most of the time as a paperweight.
Saying that there is no one in your area that can help you..... there are hams everywhere, you just have to know how to find them.
http://www.arrl.org/fcc/search ......is the first place to go. Fill in the blanks where it says "City", "State", "ZIP Code", "Any", "All", and lastly hit "Search". If at first, you don't succeed, use another nearby Zip Code.
Something should come up .... a name with an address nearby would be a start, and they might even help for free! Or give you the name of someone else.
It's just a simple antenna, not knowing what you are doing and having problems kind of makes you want to learn more. When I did my Penetrator 9 years ago I had my antenna 8 feet off the ground using a 3-foot jumper and my analyzer. But my matching and shorting rods were different than yours but shorter than the original long ones. I now have a Colossal which weighs 16 lbs, and the Penetrator is 9 lbs.
If "push comes to shove", try making the old-style "matching rod" out of solid
14-gauge wire, or something a little bit bigger Lowe's carries something that would probably work. Look at the drawing on the instructions, it can't be that hard, it's just a solid wire bent in a loop.
Hope you get it figured out.....................
ps........... Just want to make sure that you are aware of the following:
If you measure the Ohms at the radio end of the coax (any coax) with the other end connected to the antenna.......
It "will not" read 50 ohms, it will read as a short.........because the antenna is DC grounded by design.
So don't be fooled by it being shorted at the antenna connector, that's why it's called a shorting rod.
The matching rod should be longer, just like the old-style drawing on the instructions the way they were for many years when the antenna came out in the 70s (and as time passed it got shorter and shorter)....... and now you have problems.
If you measure the Ohms at the radio end of the coax (any coax) with the other end connected to the antenna.......
It "will not" read 50 ohms, it will read as a short.........because the antenna is DC grounded by design.
So don't be fooled by it being shorted at the antenna connector, that's why it's called a shorting rod.
The matching rod should be longer, just like the old-style drawing on the instructions the way they were for many years when the antenna came out in the 70s (and as time passed it got shorter and shorter)....... and now you have problems.
I found this on another forum dated March 2021.
"Let me just say that this is a fairly easy setup, but one of THE most fickle antennas to tune on the 11-meter band. Much of that has to do with Hy-Gain's instructions, which are woefully inadequate and speak in absolutely ZERO detail about tuning.
In the end, at about 7 feet off the ground on a mast pipe atop one of my PA speaker stands, I walked away happy with a 1.3 to 1 SWR across the band. That was after much playing with the length of the last primary element, and eventually the radials.
Final length of the antenna to achieve that SWR was 21 feet and 7 inches, and 102 inches on the radials.
A newbie does NOT have the skill set to properly set up this antenna. The instructions would have a newbie assembling it at 19 feet in total length and 105 inches on the radials, getting a 3.5 SWR across the band and burning their radios up."
Yes, I probably should have bought an analyzer as opposed to a tuner. But Im in close to 3 grand with these ranger radios, the "suggested" mobile antennas, the "Suggested" base antennas and everything else. Its maddening that I cant even get to the point of trying out the radio. I strongly appreciate the help Im getting on here. The latest post actually tells me how to run some tests on this antenna. I would not have known all that stuff. Im going at it tomorrow! I apologize for being ignorant. I have already made many mistakes while trying to jump into this hobby. But it is what it is. I'm in a state of dis-belief that I probably could have built this simple di-pole setups with wire instead of buying these antennas. I also got too excited at a garage sale and bought a monsterous yagi style directional beam. My wife keeps just shaking her head as I try a new blunder. Tomorrow I will post pictures of the antenna again after corrections. I will also try those tests DR Dx mentioned. I definitely wouldn't have been able to do these without instructions. And I'm sorry Greg T but I don't know what "Average Mode" is. This isn't like when I was a kid. I was a Park Ranger and threw up a galaxy 99 with an antron antenna and a palomar 300 watt linear. I didn't have any issues right out the gate post! And nobody gave me a hard time about the amp because I was the only emergency responder up in the mountains at the time. Now my goal is to be able to find out how bad the disaster is when our power grid is down at the water district I work for.. Then I can make a responsible decision as to which emergency generators to shut down to lengthen water service to the public. It will take a ham radio to get this info quickly in that scenario. it is kind of spooky having this responsibility but it is there. If I can get this up and working, I can convince folks that this plan will work!
I was out of the CB world from 2002 to 2018. When I retired in 2018 and decided to get back into CB and wow, the choices and selections of CB base antennas were confusing. I was seventy-years old, and I was not prepared to tackle the assembly and tuning of base antennas, so.....I purchased a new and simple "plug and play" A-99. After several months (prior to snow season) I decided to venture-out and buy an improved antenna. I must have researched a dozen CB Base antennas and I selected the Colossal 10K. At first, I was intimidated with the instructions on how to adjust the antenna to obtain an acceptable SWR. Yes, the instructions were straight-forward. I was on the roof and called the engineer tech / designer and he walked me through the process. Three attempts and fifteen minutes later, I was done.
dipole zero gain,, oh yes people brag about talking skip with them but as the ones in the know say ya can talk on a wet noodle in skip conditions and make contact, keep up with penatrator it will work for ya,, i run a radio shack .64 made by hygain but for radio shack branding, from 1976 but i modified the matching coil because radio shack had the hair pin changed to a circut board set up, would burn up with illegal wattage use,,, once ya get the length at resonace the matching hair pin will get ya done,,, 48 years cbing and still going and learning,,
I believe you are correct on this. It looks to be crossed up some how, as you described.
While not the most broad banded it works very well. Mine is a little too long for what I need, but not totally out of bounds to use on the uppers.
What it comes down to is CB'ers aren't smart enough to keep their antenna out of the power lines, while hams are.Not to start an argument...... throughout the years this antenna has been made and used by many on 11 meters, but then in the early 80s, all metal construction CB antennas were deemed illegal but have and are still made for 10/12 meters as stated in the ad for the antenna.
I know that, for years, no matter who sold the antenna they have always stated the same thing, "This antenna is illegal for 11 Meters use.", even though the antenna was originally made for CB use.
If you want to read it the reason for being illegal is all here:
As time went on, the only thing that changed in the SPT-500's design was the matching section (it kept getting shorter), as was the wording for the description of the antenna due to being made of all metal (for 10/12 meters).
The SPT-500 Penetrator is made by MFJ (HyGain) and in their "description" on their website, it states "This antenna is illegal for 11 Meters use." can be seen below:
https://mfjenterprises.com/collections/antenna/products/spt-500#description
Looking at the drawing on the 1st page of the antenna manual, from the HyGain site, the matching rod was the original design. The matching rod has not looked like that in years and now they have changed it completely. Also, the new instructions show the new design of the matching rod, and that the length of the antenna is supposed to be 22' tall, not the original 22'6" tall.
The manual for the SPT-500 at the MFJ site is the most updated one, more so than DX Engineers, and it shows a ground wire from the antenna to a grounding rod in this new manual.
So could it be that the SWR problem is due to the new design of the matching rod? The only way to tell what your problem is would be with an antenna analyzer to see where the actual resonant frequency is.
If the matching rod is the problem then maybe MFJ hopefully still sells the original parts needed (one each of the following); matching rod 170774 (not 170477-1), bolt 526530, and rod support 463642 which should be the cure.
1-800-647-1800 for MFJ
Unless you are the only person having this problem...........
or is there someone else on here that has this same design SPT-500 and that also has or hasn't had this problem?
I don't like the new matching rod design............
73
Not my words or thinking. I use metal antennas...I am a ham, but I've been using the metal antennas since I started in the early 80's and wasn't a ham, when apparently CBers were smart enough to keep em out of the power lines
I've used A-99's, Big Sticks, IMax, radio shack 1/2 wave ground plane metal etc, etc. They're all good. Comes down to if you're in the air on a ladder or climbing on roofs, pay attention to what's around you.
My couzin was a professional painter, but just one time his aluminum ladder hit a power line it was all over. Safety first, it's easy to get distracted.
I think a cheaper and more simple swr meter would be more useful to get started. I have several meters and a cheap little Astatic PDC 1 gives me good reading for a starter swr meter and surprising it has never gave me a power reading I didn't believe.
I have a cheap RadioShack swr meter I've had for ever, and I trust it more than some of my more expensive meters
I have a cheap RadioShack swr meter I've had for ever, and I trust it more than some of my more expensive meters
Use your multi meter and make sure you are showing a short from the center pin of the SO-239 to the center radiator AND to the ground radials. Also make sure you are showing a short between the threads of the SO-239 and the ground radials. Unhook the shorting rod from either end and make sure there is NO continuity between the threads on the SO-239/ground radials and the center radiator.
This is what I was looking for! Cool. I ran these tests and all tested as good. And yes ,I unhooked the grounding rod and lost continuity from ground radials to center radiator.
But at least now I'm happy I don't have a short in antenna.
Here are pictures after correcting ground rod position. Next I will put this thing up higher than it was for matching.
This is what I was looking for! Cool. I ran these tests and all tested as good. And yes ,I unhooked the grounding rod and lost continuity from ground radials to center radiator.
But at least now I'm happy I don't have a short in antenna.
Here are pictures after correcting ground rod position. Next I will put this thing up higher than it was for matching.
