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Pilot Travel Centers Settles Forfeiture Order

BLONGNA!!! You and I both know the freebanders have been around WAY before any of the "so called" export radios? people have been modding radios for more freq's for as long as there have been radios. Hell my madison base that was built WELL before any "export" radio ever was availible will go well into the 10 meter band.So you are going to have to come up with a better line of crap than that, and your take on the "ham" rigs metioned that are rediculusly(sic) easy to convert? Why do you think the ARRL dosent put them to the list? Cause you ham's would go through the roof!!! You and I both know thats the truth. and I'm sure the rest can see through the silly smokescreen as well.


Chuck
 
Learn to spell "Bologna". Again (sigh) I didn't MAKE the damn law! The so-called "10 Meter 'Amateur" (bull-sh---!!!!!!)radios are no more an "Amateur" radio than a loon is a goose! They are a CB radio masquarading as an "Amateur" radio trying to find a loophole that doesn't exist! (Part 97). Your lousy "10 Meter" radio LOOKS like a CB, has "channels" instead of "frequencies", and banal "toys" that appeal to children such as beeps and squeaks, and "bands" of such "channels" for non-technical people. Recognizing that fact, FCC labs SPECIFICALLY placed all such radios, updating as needed, on a list by NAME, thus making them illegal to IMPORT, distribute, sell, or otherwise market. P-E-R-I-O-D.

Amateur radios--the REAL ones, that is--- are legally sold and tacitly approved by FCC so long as they meet certain minimum technical emissions standards and meet Part 97 rules both in intent and factual compliance with these regulations. If, for example, someone such as Kenwood, were to market
a "ham" radio with ALL HF bands enabled at the factory it would be denied approval for sale. Any radio may be "ridiculously" easy to mod, BUT..........................the end INTENT of the law is compliance by the user.
Because a segment of radio users WON'T comply readily with US law WRT the USE of these "export" radios, they have been specifically placed on a list by NAME prohibiting their use. And that is the difference; the fact that they are SPECIFICALLY named as being NOT certifiable, or LEGAL for sale. LIke it or not, FCC CAN do that! The MAJORITY of Amateurs DO comply with the law, and they are not targeted by this law. COMPLIANCE is why ham radios are not targeted by such restrictions. With 600,000 US Amateurs, there are about 3-4 rule violations a month in the Amateur Service which
*some* hold up in a vain effort to justify their OWN flagrant violations of Part 95. IF the numbers of CBers could be verified and violations tabulated like they are for Amateur radio, CB violations would FAR outnumber that of Amateur Radio. Heck, I can sit here and listen to 20 violations by CB interlopers in 28 MHZ alone in a DAY if the band is up; locally, it is pretty free of
bandits on the interstate. And that is why REAL Amateur Radios will be OFF any lists or prohibitions and why a perfectly modifiable Kenwood will be APPROVED for sale (basic minimal spectral purity, etc), and your cussed "export " radios will REMAIN on the list.

You can modify a car to do 200 miles an hour. Is it safe or right? No! And it is not "safe" or right to modify ANY radio to operate outside its intended band(s) without authority. Those who believe that the export radios cause PROVEN interference to other services will continue to work to diminish the theft of that belongs rightfully and necessarily to others! Like it or NOT!

CWM
 
Your argument is not holding water and you keep flipfloping on the critera(sic) so they ARE illeagle because the ARRL has decided that they were desinged for 11 meter use even though they are very clearly marketed as a 10 meter rig? Can you explaine why there are "export" radios for sale on E-ham and other ham boards? If they are illeagle to sell then why are hams selling them?as I metioned before I can get WELL into the 10 meter band with any PLL controlled CB that has been modded for "extreechanels" so if they did do away with "exports" it won't realy do away with free banders. As stated before the best way to do it would be to recignize (sic) cb for what it is ANOTHER MORE AFFORDABLE HOBBY SERVICE and to make it less crowded open up some more bandwith and get into the twentith century with the power allowence.
just my opinion.

Chuck
 
Any time you write a law, you risk taking away some freedoms from the law abiding. Here, the FCC wants to avoid infrininging on the legal use of the radios and legal use of the bands. It's never easy, and this particular law, as written is confusing (how many times does someone cite to it in this forum as if to say read it again, and again, and the 10th time you will finally get it-as if you are stupid, and the law is clear?).

Furthermore, the 10 meter law is really hard to enforce, and it is not a "sexy" topic (as opposed to imigration, terrosim, drugs) so there is little money behind it. The FCC will get little if any cooperation from the legislature (as it will never get a Senator (or president) re-elected).

Since the law affects hams and hams only, the FCC only gains politically from the ham lobby (read ARRL). ARRL is a small lobby, but has some clout and is worth doing a few favors for. Hams are no longer in the news (like they were 25 years ago), and as a group are too small to have any voting power. (Don't you hate trying to talk about this hobby to some one at a barbque, only to see everyones' eyes glaze over and change the subject?).

By "deputising" the ARRL, the FCC makes them feel important, and delegates off Riley's desk, another task- a smart move by Riley (FCC), so he can spend more time on WIFI and cellular phone regulations, and doing lunch with Congress, which is what his job is.

Since the FCC is smart, they know that by occasional busts, just like drugs, it will keep all of the big players out of the game (Circuit City, Radio Shack), and keep the problem underground and out of the press, and under reasonable control.

In conclusion, if you are a freebander, don't worry you will never get caught, and there will always be a hundred small time sellers of the radios on the internet- always.

If you are an angry old ham, don't worry about freebanding, it will not get much worse or much better- and there will always be a bust or two to feel good about- always!
 
I partly agree with Chipotle. It IS difficult to balance the needs and rights of one group without trampling on another. If they DID restrict legal Amateur equipment in so far as "easy" modification, goes, who gets hurt? The Amateurs who, by and large, OBEY THEIR regulations would be harmed by this group of people who have NO respect for order and law and only think of themselves and what *THEY* want. Not only would Amateur radio be hurt, but it would substantially increase the cost of most ALL radio equipment for OTHER radio services as well. IOW, each distinct radio service would require a separate and distinct radio chassis and design for each service whereas, now, it is possible to "cookie cutter" many basis chassis and tailor to them to many needs. So that is why they don't just clamp down and make it difficult for EVERYBODY. FCC essentially "punished" hams in the '70s by prohibiting the sale of HF amps capable of 10 and 12 meters right out of the box. It was targeted at those small boxes that Palomar Engineers and Elkin, et al, were churning out back then. *Hams* were not the perps; CBers were, and they caused not outright hardship, but slight inconvenience and further resentment towards the CB folks by hams who now had to show proof of license to receive the plans for the 10 Meter mod.

I wouldn't be *too* sure about the political gains of hams in the aftermath of Katrina. Their service during this particular tragedy DID bring, if not outright clout, publicity that can be used to further get a foot in the door. So the 'lack of news' about hams 25 years ago is not exactly so as they gained somewhat from this unfortunate tragedy simply because their communications were very effective, if simple, while many of the mainline communications systems suffered from lack of interoperability and "turf" wars. This has NOT gone unnoticed!

This, along with further precedent set by the Pilot settlement will only help when "certain" people involved in the 10 Meter issue meet in Gettysburg to discuss enforcement and going back to levy fines against those dealers who were cited or fined previously and thumbed their noses at FCC to defy the warnings.


However, Chipotle, your post is well-put and well-considered and is quite an astute observation of the facts as they are--with some exceptions. But all is not lost! Surely, there will always be "freebanders", but FCC hopes to mitigate this to some degree. They are well aware that many people deeply, deeply resent the unwarranted intrusions into their bands, and it is not ONLY the hams that are beginning to resent the h-ll out of it!

The facts, tho some simply are going to argue and argue to find some justification for their illegal actions, remain. The "export" radios appear by NAME on a list of radios that are banned from sale by FCC, and under Title 47, US Code, this agency CAN do that no matter HOW "unfair" some people whine and moan and say it is. But it is NOT unfair. Part 95 specifically spells out exactly what a CBer can do, and that includes using a 40 channel, 4 watt CB and NO additional "channels" or power. Period-and-end. Amateurs have much leeway in what THEY may do with and about their equipment and how much power they can use. It is the difference in a service that is somewhat trained (via testing) and practice and one that is simply a CONSUMER toy that requires no more training than turning on a washer/dryer. .......... Which is why there ARE restrictions on the kinds of radios that CBers may use.

Finally, "export" radios are not illegal because ARRL says they are, but because FCC, the agency who has sole say-so on civilian communications, says so. If hams are selling these blasted things, then they should be busted HARDER than the CBers because they likely KNOW what they are doing is against the law. I have LESS respect for those who do than I do for the violators yapping their traps on 28.085

CWM
 
CW please explain to me why the FCC is busting truck stops and doing nothing about the ports of entry? That is where they need to stop the exports, like I have said many times I too dislike exports but for different reasons. The biggest reasons is most of them are cheaply made, and why anyone wants echo and beeps is beyond me. I allways thought the object of the game was to talk and be understood!
I unlike a lot of hams see that cb is useful, and should be a stepping stone for hams, but when the entry license will only let new guys talk pretty much local fm, when they have been talking dx on 11 meters they aren't going to be all that crazy about the idea, not to mention all the other things that goes along with getting a license, old farts attitudes is a biggy.
Amateur also serves a purpose, more as a hobby than anything else, the role that ham plays in tragedys such as Katrina is wonderful but, the HAMSEXY, ambulance chaser, guys have put a big black spot even on those actions. ( Have read on the net in other places where these guys were more or less told to leave, and other hams that were wanting to help were more or less clumped in the same group because of these guys) It's like I said before about the guys that chase trucks, they do way more harm than what little results they get.
 
I'LL take a stab at a answer.
Truck stops are Easy targets,High profile busts,easy money
Ports of entry are not easy targets, run by different enforcement agency and I do not think it is illegal to import buy and receive with the export radio the problem is when you transmit with them.Commerce is a two edge sword.and how do you check all the ships at all the ports off loading all those containers.Impossible!
Just ask any port authority how many containers they are able to check daily and if they do not detain you and call homeland security They will tell you most of them are checked at leist for nuclear cargo. But opened and physical checked hardly none at all. that's the dirty secret they do not want you to know about.
I also doubt that EXPORT cb type radio are very high on the list of counterband that floats into this country daily. Just a thought.
 
Yes and while we are doing that lets start paying our taxes to the ARRL and let them take over the whole govt.( old fart hams got to do something)
the ARRL is just a lobby for the hams and not a very good lobby at that. Most of my ham friends dispise what the ARRL does.
It's not to often that a govt agency turns to a LOBBY group to do their mandated jobs. ( Haliburton aside)Let the FCC and the ARRL run amock and soon someone will start a lawsuit against the FCC for Farming out work to a ( I wonder if any of their testing is certified? and by whom?) lobby group. I wonder if the ARRL is imune from law suits and if their "rulings" will withstand a court challenge. I wonder who would pay for that?
If the FCC can not do it's job than lets abolish it! or review it's purpose. as a agency it has mostly lived up to the govt standard of waste spend and waste some more money. they have become more of a revenue generating agency ( spectrum selling/)than a forward thinking techno agency mabe some day they will get their heads out of the 20's century and join us in the 21'st century and their rulings and radio law will come into the modern century and leave the 1970's era behind.
 
ARRL is not immune from lawsuits. Conversely, they actually sued the FCC over that very linear law claiming that it unfairly infringed on legal ham use. The ARRL lost. Excerpts from the case were posted on this forum late last year.
 
I read that FCC was about to remove the 24-32 MHZ restriction on amplifiers. The CB boards over the web were a-buzz because they thought it meant they would be allowed to sell CB amps as well. But that isn't true. It just meant--if they DID remove the restriction-- that HAM builders could include 10 Meters in their products and ham operators wouldn't have to obtain the schem for the 10 Meter mod. It doesn't seem as tho FCC is quick to make the change as I haven't heard anything on it since last year. Have you?


CWM
 
:x READ Chipotle's post! I was responding DIRECTLY to his post about ARRL suing FCC over the amplifier ruling back in '78.
Absolutely on topic.

CWM
 

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