Predator 10K vs. Mr.Coily results

[jessejamesdallas]

Finaly got my Mr.Coily 22" shaft Dual Coil antenna today. So could'nt wait to get it tuned, and compare it to the 10K. Here is what I came out with, useing my MFJ-259B anilizer...

First, my 10K that I normaly use is a 27" shaft, dual coil, so I had to change out the shaft to a 22", to make everything as close to the same, as posible.

First thing I noticed was that after tuned, the Coily was about 6 to 8 inches (maybe as much as 10") taller than the 10K. This is because Kale use's a large coil, and a smaller coil on his Dual Coil antenna, where Dan just takes his large coil, and cut's it in half, to make two.

According to Dan, this create's a little different radio-wave pattern. (not sure on that, but will take his word for it)

Now. What I found on the Coily. First. Tuned real easy, got 1.0 swr on channels 10 thru 34. With 49 to 50 ohm's. with X=3.

Match set-up was @ 99%. Which is good-as-it-get's! (no such thing as 100%)

Background static noise was the same on both antennas.

Now on my 10K. Every thing was close to the same, except I had 1.0 on channels 38 thru 10. But the ohm's never hit 50. Thay were from 49 to 48. (no biggie) And Match set-up was also @ 99%. And X=0 on a few channels. Never could get the Coily to where X=0....

So what's the difference between the two you ask?

Coily was around 10" to a foot taller. Which if you like the taller antennas, this would be a plus!

Wieght not enough to make a difference, unless you are concerned about a couple of "ounce's"....(maybe grams)

Coily's have a small drain hole, at the bottom of the insulators, so if water get's in the thing, it can drain-out.

The shaft on the Mr.Coily is almost half the diamitor of the 10K. But is solid, instead of hollow. Very strong.

Coily tuned the ohm's somewhat better. tuned to 50ohm where 10K was @ 49 to 48.

Predator seem's to have less reflect, but not much better, not enough to make any difference's...(X=0 @1.0)

The Mr.Coily was about $10 to $15 more in price, and not as many web.sites carrie them.

The Coily is all one peice, so "if" you manage to bend or brake it, there's no way to replace a part! However! It has a "Lifetime Warrenty" So send it back...get a New one!

Predator 10K, also has "Lifetime Warrenty" So you can send it back, or if your conserend about postage, you can just have Kale send you what ever part you need replaced...This is a plus for the 10K...

So....Between the two...either one would be a exelent choice...

Just not enough differnces between the two, to make a big deal on the air.....

If you like the taller antennas because you think the get out and recive better, then go with the Coily. If you like shorter ones, go 10K!

Also, just for the hell of it. Talked to a freind of mine on the Coily, which lives around 25 miles away. Did a radio-check with both antennas. First time I was useing the 10K. He said I was hitting him with a 9, on his meter. Next with the Coily, he said I was hitting him with a 7.

OK, sounds like the 10K is better right! Wrong!
Next told him I went back to the 10K, but I left on the Coily, Then he said I was hitting him with almost a 10! Told him I was going back to the Coily one more time, and then he said I was back down to a 7 to 8 (this time I had the 10K on)

So was he lieing? Maybe, maybe not...Conditions in DX land can change in a mater of seconds, and so can local conditions.
So you realy cant trust this kind of test.....

 

[Joe]

Very interesting and thanks for the test


"Now on my 10K. Every thing was close to the same, except I had 1.0 on channels 38 thru 10. But the ohm's never hit 50. Thay were from 49 to 48. (no biggie) And Match set-up was also @ 99%. And X=0 on a few channels. Never could get the Coily to where X=0.... "


Also, may I ask what you mean by the above quote from your test, I have next to know knowledge with this stuff, expecially the x= 0 or 3 or the ohm's remarks


Thanks

 

[jessejamesdallas]

Test was done useing a MFJ 259 antenna anilizer (think I miss-spelled anilizer but what the hell)

swr on the 10K was 1.0 (flat) on Channels 10 thru 38.

50ohms, which is what 11 meter ban should be. Your coax is either rg 8, or rg 213, or maybe rg 58, and all are 50 ohm....
Satillite TV use's 75ohm...

Useualy, You wont get a reading of exacly 50 ohms when testing, except maybe on one or two channels if your lucky. But I have never seen 50ohm reading on the regular 11 meter channels before, untill I tryed the Mr. Coily. Not that a 49, or 48 ohm reading is bad, because it's not, least not enough that it's going to make any difference.

X=0, or X=3....(X=0,being the best) OK. Here I could be way off base. But I think this is right. This is the reading for your "reflect watt's."
Get too much reflect, and if your running power, you will be buying pill's soon! (if Im wrong on this...please correct me :? )

Also, one other feature the mfj has, is it will tell you how good a set-up you have. This is the ''Match Set-up part.''

If you get a 99% Match, then your radio, amp, antenna set-up. It is set "As good as it can possibly be set!" No system can be set any better than 99%

A 98 or 97% Match is ok, little loss of signel. But get anything below 97%, and you still have some work to do.......

 

[mrcoily]

Thanks for the purchase"jessejamesdallas" I would also like to point out there is a water drain hole in the top of the isolator you may have overlooked the drain,, It will not fill with water,and my whips are very flexable,some would say thats a down sid,and some like the extra flex..anyway Thanks again,,if you ever have a problem just give me a ring....Dan :Wavey

 

[jessejamesdallas]

No. Your right about the drain hole. I forgot all about that! Thanks for reminding me. I did notice it, but may have been because I was also looking for it! You dont realy notice it otherwise...And as for the stinger being more flexable. That should be another Plus for the antenna. Reminds me of a Wilson stinger. I'm sure it may flex backward some going down the road @ 100mph...But I can say this for sure. At 75 mph, the swr reading Does NOT CHANGE ONE BIT!

So if there is anyone outthere that wants to argue that point, forget about it. Because I damn neer had a wreck looking over my sholder watching the meter, to see if it would change or even waver some @ 75, then hitting the brakes, and comeing to a complet stop. THE NEEDLE NEVER MOVED......

Stiff stingers like what MM use's, wont flex when you hit tree's, and hit something hard enough with a stinger like that. And not only will you bend it all-up, but you take the chance of breaking the shaft, or worce, bending the roof backwards, or even ripping a hole in it, as the antenna bends back!

No thanks. I'll take a limp stinger every day, over a stiff one!
(the XYL is just the oppsite with this topic however!)

 

[Yota]

JJD...Did you buy the Comp model or The DX model ??? Peace Yota

 

[jessejamesdallas]

Yota...DX model.....Comp is too tall for everyday driving....Least on top of my burb, or van! (like 8' tall..)

 

[Moleculo]

Here's an interesting thought....instead of using a second coil on the antenna, why not use a cap hat? If I was a betting man, I'd put some money on a single coil with a cap hat outperforming an antenna with a double coil. Maybe something Kale or Dan can work on??????

 

[jessejamesdallas]

Here's an interesting thought....instead of using a second coil on the antenna, why not use a cap hat? If I was a betting man, I'd put some money on a single coil with a cap hat outperforming an antenna with a double coil. Maybe something Kale or Dan can work on??????

Monkey Made has a ground-plane kit you can buy for their antennas. But unlike most ground-plane kit's, their's go's on the shaft "above" the coil. Which make's it more of a "top-hat" than a ground-plane...

It also throw's the swr so out-of-whack, its impossible to get them set anywhere near right. Not to mention, it add's another couple of pounds, to a antenna that already weigh's to much to start with.

Got talked in to buying one of these toy's a couple of years ago from CB City. Dumb'est move I made in a long time...

Notice they quit selling them now....

 

[Moleculo]

If it threw the SWR out of whack, it's because it wasn't designed right. Have you ever noticed how ham antenna manufacturers that sell antennas with Coils use Cap hats to shorten the overall antenna height instead of a second coil? I suppose none of those tune properly either? You can't just throw a cap hat on a coil antenna and expect it to work right. Usually, you will end up needing less turns in the coil to get a flat match (which is a good thing, btw).

Also, a Cap hat doesn't add any more weight than another coil does.

A second coil isn't exactly the best idea in antenna design. I'm not trying to knock anyone's antennas, but we have been through this before in other threads. I would like to see one of these guys do a cap hat and tell us the results. Heck, they could just BUY one from someone like Hi-Q antennas, put it above the coil, and then start shorting turns on the coil to figure out how many turns were needed for a production antenna. Then they could run some tests and tell us if it was better or worse then their dual coil design. That would make some interesting reading....

 

[rfoverlord]

yeah, that would be cool to see a new ant. choice, with a cap hat made for the dxer not the "bowl" warrior.

 

[10k223]

Here's an interesting thought....instead of using a second coil on the antenna, why not use a cap hat? If I was a betting man, I'd put some money on a single coil with a cap hat outperforming an antenna with a double coil. Maybe something Kale or Dan can work on??????

Moleculo, I've already got one. I came out with the horizontal antenna years ago. You don't have to do away with the other coil. Kale

 

[jessejamesdallas]

If it threw the SWR out of whack, it's because it wasn't designed right. Have you ever noticed how ham antenna manufacturers that sell antennas with Coils use Cap hats to shorten the overall antenna height instead of a second coil? I suppose none of those tune properly either? You can't just throw a cap hat on a coil antenna and expect it to work right. Usually, you will end up needing less turns in the coil to get a flat match (which is a good thing, btw).

Also, a Cap hat doesn't add any more weight than another coil does.

A second coil isn't exactly the best idea in antenna design. I'm not trying to knock anyone's antennas, but we have been through this before in other threads. I would like to see one of these guys do a cap hat and tell us the results. Heck, they could just BUY one from someone like Hi-Q antennas, put it above the coil, and then start shorting turns on the coil to figure out how many turns were needed for a production antenna. Then they could run some tests and tell us if it was better or worse then their dual coil design. That would make some interesting reading....

Well, I know what your talking about, with the hams cap hat not weighing anymore. But this thing that MM came out with, weigh's as much as the whole antenna it's self!

What you do, is remove the stinger, slip this thing on the stinger, then reset the swr, and then the so-called ground-plane, has a set-screw, that you tighten down to secure it...

I spent hour's trying to set this thing, before giving up on it. And trying again, and again. Weekend, after weekend, trying to get back down under 1.6 swr...never happend...

Kales idea, with his "Flat-Side" antenna is not the easy'est thing to set either, but once set, "Look-out-DX!" :wow

 

[mrcoily]

If you would like jeesejames i can send you a flat stinger for your coily! I also have been building the kit for ever..Just pull the vertical stinger out and drop in the flat side stinger kit..and adjust it up or down and your good to go it is basicly a cap hat but some guys swear by them.. i will get you one built so you can play..Call it a free toy.. :beer

 

[jessejamesdallas]

Cool! Was'nt aware you made one...Way Kales works, you have to change out the top part of the shaft, with one that has a hole on the side of it, and slide the the stinger in vertical. Your's could be easyer to set! my luck maybe harder! :bash

Cant wait to find out anyway...everyone I have talked to, swear by them.(I usely swear @ them!) :mrgreen: