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Predator 10K vs. Mr.Coily results
- Thread starter jessejamesdallas
- Start date
The difference in height (length) can make a difference but at only a foot or two that difference is not going to be much. That's a difference in the radiation pattern. Any shortened antenna, don't care who makes it, will not have the same radiation pattern as the 'full sized' antenna would have. Taller means 'better' in most cases, but only if you are talking about simular 'length' antennas (1/4 wave, 5/8 wave, 16/47 wave, etc.). Adding any inductance (coil) means you have a shortened antenna, if you are talking about a particular length. The inductance can be produced by a coil, or a straight length of rod/wire/tubing/whatever. The over all length determines the radiation pattern. The radiation pattern changes with length.
A shortened antenna may not be any worse than a 'full sized' antenna if the type of antenna isn't the same. A shortened 5/8 wave might still be 'better' than a full length 1/4 wave. Just depends on if the pattern covers the area you are interested in. If the full sized antenna doesn't cover the area you are interested in then it's not doing you much good, is it? If a very shoprtened antenna covers the area you are interested in then it's 'better' than the full sized one, right? Really just a matter of what you are looking for.
A particular antenna may work just dandy for one person and just terrible for another. Depends on the suroundings of the antenna, the installation site. 'Who' makes the 'best' antenna is a loaded question to start with, and just doesn't make a lot of difference (unless you're selling the things! Or maybe don't have the best site to put the thing!).
I can talk to a lot of people with the typical 'Rat Shack' mobile antenna. Can I talk to everyone? Nope. But neither can anyone with -any- brand antenna, don't care who makes it. Gotta keep this sort of thing in per$pective. You know?
- 'Doc
A shortened antenna may not be any worse than a 'full sized' antenna if the type of antenna isn't the same. A shortened 5/8 wave might still be 'better' than a full length 1/4 wave. Just depends on if the pattern covers the area you are interested in. If the full sized antenna doesn't cover the area you are interested in then it's not doing you much good, is it? If a very shoprtened antenna covers the area you are interested in then it's 'better' than the full sized one, right? Really just a matter of what you are looking for.
A particular antenna may work just dandy for one person and just terrible for another. Depends on the suroundings of the antenna, the installation site. 'Who' makes the 'best' antenna is a loaded question to start with, and just doesn't make a lot of difference (unless you're selling the things! Or maybe don't have the best site to put the thing!).
I can talk to a lot of people with the typical 'Rat Shack' mobile antenna. Can I talk to everyone? Nope. But neither can anyone with -any- brand antenna, don't care who makes it. Gotta keep this sort of thing in per$pective. You know?
- 'Doc
55 antenna vs predator and coily.
I was told that other than the "Humoungous" height of the 8 and 1/2 ft 55 antenna, and having the biggest, fattest coil on earth, the 55 is the baddest big coil antenna made for handling watts, receiving, and transmitting. How does the 55 ant, stack up against the competition? Is this true?, is the 55 antenna still being manufactured?. Honest answers (no bull) only.
I was told that other than the "Humoungous" height of the 8 and 1/2 ft 55 antenna, and having the biggest, fattest coil on earth, the 55 is the baddest big coil antenna made for handling watts, receiving, and transmitting. How does the 55 ant, stack up against the competition? Is this true?, is the 55 antenna still being manufactured?. Honest answers (no bull) only.
Re: Monkey Made
But the Monkey, was'nt even in the same class as a 10K!
10K tuned better, was alot lighter, and from what people were telling me at the time, I was alot louder useing the 10K. Also was told in DX, I was comeing in alot stronger on the 10K...
10K and Mr.Coily antennas are so close together in comparison, I dont see how you could go wrong with either of those two antennas....Just a few differences between the two, but nothing I could see, that put's one over the other, in performance......Or customer service...However! I'm not yet done with a few more experiments with these two!
I have tested the MM against the 10K, not the Coily however, due to the fact I didnt have one at the time.cbshack said:
But the Monkey, was'nt even in the same class as a 10K!
10K tuned better, was alot lighter, and from what people were telling me at the time, I was alot louder useing the 10K. Also was told in DX, I was comeing in alot stronger on the 10K...
10K and Mr.Coily antennas are so close together in comparison, I dont see how you could go wrong with either of those two antennas....Just a few differences between the two, but nothing I could see, that put's one over the other, in performance......Or customer service...However! I'm not yet done with a few more experiments with these two!
'Fat' antennas versus 'skinny' antennas
Well, there will be a slight difference in length (assuming the same electrical length of antenna 1/4w, 1/2w, whatever), the fatter antenna being slightly shorter than the skinny antenna. Has to do with the amount of inductance per length/surface area, and at 27 Mhz it ain't gonna make a lot of difference. If you are talking about a diameter of a few feet, then sure, it'll make a noticable difference. But from about 1/4 inch to 2 inches, not a lot of difference in over all length. (Has to be an appreciable percentage of wave length before it really makes much difference.)
Which radiates 'better'? Neither, they're both about the same. Only a small percentage of possible radiation efficiency which is due mainly to how well the thingy is tuned to start with. Which is 'better' for you? It's sort of a "which do you like the best" kinda thing (like beer!). If the height really makes a difference, as in garage ceiling height, then the fatter antennas -might- be 'best'. Sort of a long 'reach' there, huh? Otherwise, it just isn't worth worrying about. [Mine's fatter than yours! ? Girl friend??]
Now, to really get 'picky', there are some differences between fat and skinny antennas. Has to do with the internal resistance of the conductor used and the amount of inductance possible from the larger surface area. One result of those differences is the amount of 'broadbandedness' possible. Before you really get excited, that 'broadbandedness' isn't enough at HF to be noticable. Neither is the internal resistance, unless you have more gold than common sense. At microwave, sure. At HF, forget it. (Can't wait till the advertisng department gets a hold of that!)
- 'Doc
Well, there will be a slight difference in length (assuming the same electrical length of antenna 1/4w, 1/2w, whatever), the fatter antenna being slightly shorter than the skinny antenna. Has to do with the amount of inductance per length/surface area, and at 27 Mhz it ain't gonna make a lot of difference. If you are talking about a diameter of a few feet, then sure, it'll make a noticable difference. But from about 1/4 inch to 2 inches, not a lot of difference in over all length. (Has to be an appreciable percentage of wave length before it really makes much difference.)
Which radiates 'better'? Neither, they're both about the same. Only a small percentage of possible radiation efficiency which is due mainly to how well the thingy is tuned to start with. Which is 'better' for you? It's sort of a "which do you like the best" kinda thing (like beer!). If the height really makes a difference, as in garage ceiling height, then the fatter antennas -might- be 'best'. Sort of a long 'reach' there, huh? Otherwise, it just isn't worth worrying about. [Mine's fatter than yours! ? Girl friend??]
Now, to really get 'picky', there are some differences between fat and skinny antennas. Has to do with the internal resistance of the conductor used and the amount of inductance possible from the larger surface area. One result of those differences is the amount of 'broadbandedness' possible. Before you really get excited, that 'broadbandedness' isn't enough at HF to be noticable. Neither is the internal resistance, unless you have more gold than common sense. At microwave, sure. At HF, forget it. (Can't wait till the advertisng department gets a hold of that!)
- 'Doc
Okay so in reality, it's a toss up between the 55, 10k, and the coily antenna. I guess the only reason that these antennas are better than the Wilson 5000 antenna (from what I'm reading on this forum) is that the big coil antennas hear better, and they can take a whole lot of power, more so than the wilson antennas :roll: . I believe that no one here can ultimately say which big coil is better, and why, backing it up with real world facts 
. And Jesse James, being a mud duck ain't to bad, you gotta crawl before you can walk, unless you're in a wheel chair, LOL. Few more posts , and I'll be a new member 1st class (plain duck) .
. And Jesse James, being a mud duck ain't to bad, you gotta crawl before you can walk, unless you're in a wheel chair, LOL. Few more posts , and I'll be a new member 1st class (plain duck) .Coil Antennas
Jesse James,
I tried a 12 inch MM-5 and it tuned well on the roof of my pick up truck. I can't really tell any difference between it and my 15 inch Mr. Coily and 12 inch 10K, receive or transmit. I know that some antennas tune better on different vehicles and locations. I have never run a 55 but I was told that some of their models heat up under load more so than the 10K. If this is true or not I am not sure.
Jesse James,
I tried a 12 inch MM-5 and it tuned well on the roof of my pick up truck. I can't really tell any difference between it and my 15 inch Mr. Coily and 12 inch 10K, receive or transmit. I know that some antennas tune better on different vehicles and locations. I have never run a 55 but I was told that some of their models heat up under load more so than the 10K. If this is true or not I am not sure.
These Big coil wars have been going on for years. 1st it started with the great BB big coil antenna (East coast), then it was Dr. Crow (the south), then in succession monkey made, 55, and now the predator 10 k. This is like the pro wrestling matches you see on cable, where the champion for what ever duration is chosen behind dark lit smokey rooms, to rule WWW until the next popular stooge is promoted for additional ratings :x . I'm going to pick the winner :evil: . An the winner is (because of it's overall light weight) by decision, is, the Prrrrrrreditorrrrr 10 kayyyyyyy 8) . Go forth now young predator, and defend your title. The next contender is right around the corner :mrgreen: .
is, the Prrrrrrreditorrrrr 10 kayyyyyyy 8) . Go forth now young predator, and defend your title. The next contender is right around the corner :mrgreen: .Logan, the 10K isn't all that young. It's been around for 11 years. It's taken about 8 years of that to get enough of them out there for people to know what they are and what kind of product they are. I've done the best I can with them and always looking for any improvement I can to make it better. The design is still the same as it was to start with. I didn't start with a heavy antenna with flat coils and then change it to be like someone elses. Everything is the same as it was to start with except that I have came up with the quality and down with the price. Everyone talks about it being a high dollar antenna. I don't make all that much on them after all the work that goes into them. It's the retailers that make it look bad on me with their high dollar prices. Clay is a good retailer. He prices everything so that everyone can afford them like WalMart. Look how they got as big as they did. If anyone can't afford Clay's prices, they don't want one very bad.Logan said:These Big coil wars have been going on for years. 1st it started with the great BB big coil antenna (East coast), then it was Dr. Crow (the south), then in succession monkey made, 55, and now the predator 10 k. This is like the pro wrestling matches you see on cable, where the champion for what ever duration is chosen behind dark lit smokey rooms, to rule WWW until the next popular stooge is promoted for additional ratings :x . I'm going to pick the winner :evil: . An the winner is (because of it's overall light weight) by decision,
I'm 67 years old trying to supply the whole U.S. with 10K's. Me and just one helper. The 10K is here to stay as long as I'm able to keep buildin' them. It's people like Jesse James and a lot more out there that keeps it alive. I don't agree that he is a mud duck but I try to build an antenna that even a mud duck can have fun with. Like you said, the next contender is right around the corner. Kale
No problem kale. You do produce a good product, that's why I declared it he winner by decision. I'm just curious, from what I read about the coily antennas, they have flat coils. These flat coils instead of round coils, are supposed to make the launched signal from the antenna a dx killer :roll:. because of a flatter 5/8 type signal :shock: . Is their any truth to this myth, or is it just more advertising hype? :?: . And if it is true what is said about the flat coils, why haven't you incorporated this into the 10k design?? Thanks for the info.
Thanks for the info.I never have and never will build an antenna with a flat coil. An old Ham told me years ago that RF does not like flat surfaces and sharp edges but round. I don't know if this is true or not. If RF travels on the outside, how is it going to get any more on the outside than by THIN wall tubing? I don't have what you might call a DX antenna. Some of my antenna designs might talk DX better than others but it is hard to tell with conditions changing as fast as they do. I used to think the taller antennas talked DX better than the shorter ones. Not so all the time. I came up with a base loaded antenna a while back with a 1" stub to connect it to the mount with a coil just above it and a top piece 25" long to hold the stinger. I like it better than most of the other designs that I have put together in the past. It surprised me that it didn't have very much reflect and tuned very well. It seems to talk DX as well if not better than the long shaft antennas with the coil up high. Ever skip a rock across a pond? The lower down you turn the rock loose the farther it will skip. Throw it out there and it will drop. I haven't had this antenna tried on any other vehicle but my own. It should perform very well on headache racks, magnet mounts and just about any type of vehicle with the mount up high away from surrounding metals. KaleLogan said: