Prominent Conservative Leader...

[Highlander_821]

Your article is deeply flawed on many issues of fact. What it does address quite well, however, is the sense of deep humiliation that much of the Arab world feels. But the vast majority of the Arab world had nothing to do with the attacks on New York and DC.

My statement is taken directly from interviews with Bin Laden and Khalid Shiek Muhammed, when they were asked why they attacked America. If you call that oversimplification, so be it.

 

[PLUTO]

I agree with Highlander on the subject of Israel....we need to stop sending them weapons and the finance to bulldoze Palastinian homes and taking thier land, killing civilians...ect. We need to stop trying to be the world police, and start shifting our attention to the needs of the people here in the USA.

 

[Sonwatcher]

Even with the problems involved over there,there is a little more to our being behind Israel. Especially during these times.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2001/1026/p1s1-uspo.html

 

[Highlander_821]

To refer to Israel as a "democracy" is to make a mockery of the term.

When they dominate and subjugate the lives of over 5 million people under their rule-- people who have no rights to their own land, no right to vote in Israeli elections, no right, indeed, to even move freely between their towns and villages, no right to control their own resources such as water, no right to live without constant harrassment and violence at the hands of the illegal settlers, who destroy their homes and burn their orchards and crops, poison their wells and aquifers--they have NO right to refer to themselves as a democracy.

What did you mean by "especially in these times"? I suppose you must be refering to another of your biblical fairy tales about the "end times", or the "rapture"? About how the new Temple will descend from heaven and land on the Dome of the Rock, and all that nonsense, right?

I've had enough of this. Go ahead and support your criminal President, enjoy your "creative destruction", and your ridiculous mythology, and have a nice day.

I'll let you have the last word....

 

[Sonwatcher]

What did you mean by "especially in these times"? I suppose you must be refering to another of your biblical fairy tales about the "end times",

The time we are living in that we have been discussing.
From the article-

"it is virtually unthinkable that the US would ever sever, or significantly reduce, its ties with Israel, terrorist blackmail or no.Too many cultural and economic links bind the two democracies for that.

Other US allies in the region are authoritarian, or monarchies, or some combination of the two. In Saudi Arabia, the royal family could conceivably be overthrown by extremist religious factions, as happened to the Shah of Iran in 1979. That won't happen in Israel."

A stable ally in a dangerous region.

This is what I was referring to. I agree, I will not discuss this anymore with you. Your mind strays too much for me along with your dreamy assumptions of what others think or imply. You have a problem that seems to control your emotions and the way you attack people. Your hate is very distructive .

 

[PLUTO]

"A stable ally in a dangerous regon" I kind of felt the same way, until I saw some of the atrocities that Israel were comitting. The one that really enraged me was of a father and son (around 8 or 9 years old) pinned down behind what appeared to be a small wooden crate being fired upon. The two were not armed and no coats to conceal bombs. The father was waving his arms and trying to let them know that they were no threat, while the little boy's face displayed the worst terror I'd ever witnessed. He was shot and killed first, and as the father cradled the dead boy in his arms and crying, he was shot dead. It did not appear on the news media in the US that I know of. That's when my opinion of Israel changed. An then there was the 19 year old girl who was run over by a bulldozer.....on purpose. I understand that bad things has happened to the Jewish people over the years, but not by those people, and what gives them the right to decide who lives and who dies, who stays, who goes?

 

[Watchman76]

On a lighter note...............

http://www.infowars.com/cartoons_5.htm#makeup

 

[Highlander_821]

Pluto, I remember that incident. Knowing that this was my tax dollars at work was a very painful thing to have to come to grips with.

The leading cause of death for school kids in Gaza is gun shot wounds to the head from IDF forces. Gaza is essentially an open air prison for 1.2 million people.

Did you know that our tax dollars went to pay each and every of the 8000 illegal settlers from Gaza $250,000 for re-settlement in Israel? I'll bet the people who lost their homes to Katrina feel really good about that one....

 

[PLUTO]

Highlander, the images of that little boy's face will forever be burned into my brain. I was an EMT for 10 years in Ohio and kid's injuries or death was the hardest to deal with. Yep, our tax dollars helping them and others that, in reality hate us, while cutbacks such as health care and other helpful programs here, is beyond belief. I hear people say stand behind your president, well sheep will follow each other off the edge of a cliff. So blindly following a puppet would be just as bad....if not worse. Open eyes and open mind, dosen't mean unpatriotic.

 

[Marconi]

There are many words here and stark differences of opinion, but read the attached article and tell me how does the world deal with the attitudes represented by this Arab lady?

I guess the real question is; is there any doubt that this attitude exist as represented, or has history and literature also been blinded?

Consider Brigitte Gabriel, a native of the Arab world, and the former news anchor of World News for Middle East television.

Now a Contributing Editor for FamilySecurityMatters.com, Gabriel wants viewers and listeners to know the truth about what the Arab World thinks of Senator Durbin's remarks, the alleged so-called "abuses" at Gitmo (a joke she calls it), and the Arab ideology which views the mettle of a man by the brutal way they treat their enemy.

As a child, Gabriel's home was destroyed by radical Islamists, because she was a Christian. She spent 2 1/2 months in the hospital and then lived underground for 7 years with no electricity and little food. THEN she rose to become a news anchor, and later moved to the US where she's a true American success story - own business, husband, two kids, etc.

Here is an OpEd by Brigitte.
-------------------------------------------------------------

WHAT THE ARAB WORLD THINKS By Brigitte Gabriel

Torture is accepted and even expected in the Arab world. Yes, I know what you're thinking-that's not politically correct in most mainstream media and you know some nice Arabs who have immigrated to America. But it's the truth in the Arab world, might makes right. Real men don't eat quiche. They prove their manhood by the way they treat their enemy. After all it's what Muhammad did to the nonbelievers - Christians, Jews and Zoroastrians in the Quoran - the 'holy book' allegedly mishandled in Guantanamo prison.

Arab Muslim men gain honor by shaming, belittling, abusing and torturing their enemy in the most horrific ways. Just look at how the Palestinians treat so-called collaborators by disemboweling them and hanging them upside down in Manger Square in Bethlehem. Look at the terrorist torture chambers that the coalition forces recently uncovered in Iraq.

When people refer to the prisons of Saddam Hussein and his regime they think he is the extreme exception. Not! The truth is his torture tactics are quite the norm in the Arab world. If you want to see torture that is beyond what any Westerner can ever imagine please go to

http://www.masada2000.org/impalement.asx

Yes, you read it right, impalement. You'll get a glimpse of what the Arabs do to their own people.

As someone who came from the Arab world and knows how they think, it frustrates me to see self-appointed righteous minded politicians and media pundits oblivious to Arabic culture and thinking, criticizing America's actions at Guantanamo. These are a bunch of al Qaeda jihadists who were captured while bent on killing us - the kaffirs or 'unbelievers. They laugh watching our government bend over backwards, forwards and sideways trying to appease the critics. The more we stumble over ourselves questioning our goals and tactics, the more they think we are weak and easy to defeat.

They smirk because they believe that Americans have demonstrated how stupid and weak they are by caving in to stories about maltreatment of Guantanamo detainees. They are watching our critics in this country and counting on them to embolden the radical Islamic cause and weaken our resolve.

Actually, Gitmo is a joke as far as the Arabs are concerned. Prison? You call that a prison? Let me tell you what some of the prisoners call Guantanamo, "Al muntazah al-dini lilmujaheden al Muslimin," The Religious Resort for Islamic Militants. They are given three halal meals a day in accordance to their religious dictates. How many kosher prisons are there in the Arabic world? None. Jews captured in the Arab world are butchered like those obscene pictures taken in Ramallah during the frenzied slaughter of two Israeli reservists who got lost. Remember the Palestinian man holding his red, Jewish blood dripping hands, high above his head in victory? Remember Nick Berg's head being held high also?

Most of these detainees never had three meals a day in their entire life. They are gaining weight and are living in what they refer to in Arabic as "Al-Jannah," paradise. They have radio, television, soccer games, air-conditioning, clean clothes, servants, meaning American GIs, who wait on them hand and foot. They have Islamic chaplains and handed Qu'rans, the social hate guide against Infidels, by people so concerned as not to offend that they wear latex gloves and carry the book with two hands.

Many Muslims in the Middle East would gladly give up their poverty, dictatorial governments, corrupt leaders and social bondage to enjoy the relative luxuries Guantanamo offers. They have free medical care, better than millions of uninsured Americans and our military men and women serving on the Jihadists' battlefield. Some of them who couldn't afford to see an optometrist now have glasses and can see and read their Qu'ran. Others who never had the opportunity to see a dentist now have a free dental plan. It has become such a joke; we even stop interrogations to let them take prayer breaks demanded by their religion.

As an Arab, I can tell you that Illinois Democratic Senator Richard Durbin is aiding and abetting the goals and strategy of Islamic Jihadists who have declared war on the United States. Where was Durbin's comparison to the Nazis when we found the torture chambers in Iraq? Where was Durbin's comparison to Soviet gulags when we found the hundreds of thousands of bodies in Saddam's mass graves?

Where was Durbin's head when he compared prisoners captured on the field of battle to the internment of Japanese American civilians during WWII? OK, apologize to unarmed citizens, not fighters with weapons in their hands. Where was Durbin when he compared Gitmo and Abu Ghraib to the industry of death that murdered 6 million Jewish men, women and children during WWII? If anything his heart and mind were in the Jihadists terrorists' camp. If you see what story is being downloaded and shared by viewers of the al Jazeera web site you will find the story on Durbin's comments the winner.

If I were an Islamic terrorist I would be thanking Durbin and forwarding his views to all my fellow fanatics. His reckless comments fuel the fanatic frenzied Jihadists, motivating them to blow themselves up in the midst of innocent civilians, savagely cut the heads of helpless hostages and devote themselves to killing the infidel who could be your neighbor stationed in Iraq. Just like the Quran says they should.

Dick Durbin is an unwitting champion of Islamic radical fundamentalists. His comments should be known from this day forward as a "Durbinization" of the facts. To demonize something grossly out of proportion to what the enemy is doing is to Durbinize. Gitmo and Abu Ghraib have been Durbinized and the Arab world loves it. They laugh at Durbin because he's supporting their belief in the destruction of our country and civilization.

The shame is Durbin doesn't have a clue as to what he's done. As far as he's concerned, he did the right thing for the Islamic radical detainees living high on the proverbial hog in Gitmo. What he really did was made them laugh. Laugh at us for being fools and not real men. Now it's time to see if the voters in Illinois and his fellow members of Congress are men and women enough to tell the Moslem world Durbin isn't our real man.

Brigitte Gabriel is the former news anchor of World News for Middle East television, and now a Contributing Editor of FamilySecurityMatters.com and the founder of AmericanCongressforTruth.com

 

[Sonwatcher]

Some facts about Bin laden and the terrorist views of America and its soldiers -

http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101010924/wosama.html

When Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait and threatened Saudi Arabia, bin Laden informed the royal family that he and his Arab Afghans were prepared to defend the kin gdom. The offer was spurned. Instead, the Saudis invited in U.S. troops for the first time ever. Like many other Muslims, bin Laden was offended by the Army's presence, with its Christian and Jewish soldiers, its rock music, its women who drove and wore pants. Saudi Arabia has a singular place among Islamic countries as the cradle of Islam and as home to Mecca and Medina, which are barred to non-Muslims.

In 1993, 18 U.S. soldiers, part of a contingent sent on a humanitarian mission to famine-struck Somalia, were murdered by street fighters in Mogadishu. Bin Laden later claimed that some of the Arab Afghans were involved. The main thing to bin Laden, howev er, was the horrified American reaction to the deaths. Within six months, the U.S. had withdrawn from Somalia. In interviews, bin Laden has said that his forces expected the Americans to be tough like the Soviets but instead found that they were "paper tigers" who "after a few blows ran in defeat."

Officially, he is committed to preparing for a worldwide Islamic state, but for now he focuses on eradicating infidels from Islamic lands.

A tape of his son's wedding last January features bin Laden reading an ode he'd written to the bombing by his supporters of the U.S.S. Cole in Y emen, an attack that killed 17 service members. "The pieces of the bodies of the infidels were flying like dust particles," he sang. "If you had seen it with your own eyes, your heart would have been filled with joy."

Bin Laden to Clinton's Secretary of State-

They had thought that the Americans were like the Russians, so they trained and prepared. They were stunned when they discovered how low was the morale of the American soldier. America had entered with 30,000 soldiers in addition to thousands of soldiers from different countries in the world. ... As I said, our boys were shocked by the low morale of the American soldier and they realized that the American soldier was just a paper tiger. He was unable to endure the strikes that were dealt to his army, so he fled

 

[Sonwatcher]

from the computers taken from Kabul just as the Taliban were falling from power.Sent to Mullah Omar (Taliban leader) October 3, 2001 http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/print/200409/cullison

To: Mullah Omar
From: Osama bin Laden
Folder: Deleted File (Recovered)
Date: October 3, 2001


Highly esteemed Leader of the Faithful,
Mullah Muhammad Omar, Mujahid,
May God preserve him …

1- We treasure your message, which confirms your generous, heroic position in defending Islam and in standing up to the symbols of infidelity of this time.

2- I would like to emphasize the major impact of your statements on the Islamic world. Nothing harms America more than receiving your strong response to its positions and statements. Thus it is very important that the Emirate respond to every threat or demand from America … with demands that America put an end to its support of Israel, and that U.S. forces withdraw from Saudi Arabia. Such responses nullify the effect of the American media on people's morale.

Newspapers mentioned that a recent survey showed that seven out of every ten Americans suffer psychological problems following the attacks on New York and Washington.

Although you have already made strong declarations, we ask you to increase them to equal the opponent's media campaign in quantity and force.

Their threat to invade Afghanistan should be countered by a threat on your part that America will not be able to dream of security until Muslims experience it as reality in Palestine and Afghanistan.

3- Keep in mind that America is currently facing two contradictory problems:

a) If it refrains from responding to jihad operations, its prestige will collapse, thus forcing it to withdraw its troops abroad and restrict itself to U.S. internal affairs. This will transform it from a major power to a third-rate power, similar to Russia.

b) On the other hand, a campaign against Afghanistan will impose great long-term economic burdens, leading to further economic collapse, which will force America, God willing, to resort to the former Soviet Union's only option: withdrawal from Afghanistan, disintegration, and contraction.

Thus our plan in the face of this campaign should focus on the following:

—Serving a blow to the American economy, which will lead to:

a) Further weakening of the American economy

b) Shaking the confidence in the American economy. This will lead investors to refrain from investing in America or participating in American companies, thus accelerating the fall of the American economy …

—Conduct a media campaign to fight the enemy's publicity. The campaign should focus on the following important points:

a) Attempt to cause a rift between the American people and their government, by demonstrating the following to the Americans:

—That the U.S. government will lead them into further losses of money and lives.

—That the government is sacrificing the people to serve the interests of the rich, particularly the Jews.

—That the government is leading them to the war front to protect Israel and its security.

—America should withdraw from the current battle between Muslims and Jews.

This plan aims to create pressure from the American people on their government to stop its campaign against Afghanistan, on the grounds that the campaign will cause major losses to the American people.

—Imply that the campaign against Afghanistan will be responded to with revenge blows against America.

I believe that we can issue, with your permission, a number of speeches that we expect will have the greatest impact, God willing, on the American, Pakistani, Arab, and Muslim people.

Finally, I would like to emphasize how much we appreciate the fact that you are our Emir. I would like to express our great appreciation of your historical stands in the service of Islam and in the defense of the Prophet's tradition. We ask God to accept and reward such stands.

We ask God to grant the Muslim Afghani nation, under your leadership, victory over the American infidels, just as He singled this nation out with the honor of defeating the Communist infidels.

We ask God to lead you to the good of both this life and the afterlife.

Peace upon you and God's mercy and blessings.

Your brother,
Osama Bin Muhammad Bin Laden

I think we see this taking place with the war in Iraq.