Ranger made radios RT1 invasion

[Rhinoky]

Sorry to bring this back alive, but there are a couple versions of this RT1 / IRFZ24N Fet.

942-IRFZ24NPBF-
Package / Case: TO-220-3
Transistor Polarity: N-Channel
Number of Channels: 1 Channel
Vds - Drain-Source Breakdown Voltage: 55 V
Id - Continuous Drain Current: 17 A
Rds On - Drain-Source Resistance: 70 mOhms
Vgs - Gate-Source Voltage: - 20 V, + 20 V
Vgs th - Gate-Source Threshold Voltage: 1.8 V
Qg - Gate Charge: 13.3 nC
Minimum Operating Temperature: - 55 C
Maximum Operating Temperature: + 175 C
Pd - Power Dissipation: 45 W

$0.56

and

IRFZ24PBF-BE3

Package / Case: TO-220AB-3
Transistor Polarity: N-Channel
Number of Channels: 1 Channel
Vds - Drain-Source Breakdown Voltage: 60 V
Id - Continuous Drain Current: 17 A
Rds On - Drain-Source Resistance: 100 mOhms
Vgs - Gate-Source Voltage: - 20 V, + 20 V
Vgs th - Gate-Source Threshold Voltage: 4 V
Qg - Gate Charge: 25 nC
Minimum Operating Temperature: - 55 C
Maximum Operating Temperature: + 175 C
Pd - Power Dissipation: 60 W

$1.18 each

Can either one of these be used in a RCI-69 Base that uses four- RT1's? I see difference in threshold voltage and 15 watts difference in Power dissipation.

I've ordered both types just to have but I have the 2030+s in the 69 base right now. I have 520's and tried them, seems I had higher dead key on the 520's but the 2030+s has lower dead key and less control on RF power knob but the 2030+ seems to swing a bit better. I ultimately want to put the correct finals back in but was wondering if either of these two versions would work or one would be better output than the other?
942-IRFZ24NPBF or IRFZ24PBF-BE3? Sorry for the bold typing, it came from copy and paste. But the reason I blew one of the original RT1s was a intermittent shorted jumper now corrected.

Thanks,
Rhinoky

 

[Nowurtalkin222]

Sorry to bring this back alive, but there are a couple versions of this RT1 / IRFZ24N Fet.

942-IRFZ24NPBF-
Package / Case: TO-220-3
Transistor Polarity: N-Channel
Number of Channels: 1 Channel
Vds - Drain-Source Breakdown Voltage: 55 V
Id - Continuous Drain Current: 17 A
Rds On - Drain-Source Resistance: 70 mOhms
Vgs - Gate-Source Voltage: - 20 V, + 20 V
Vgs th - Gate-Source Threshold Voltage: 1.8 V
Qg - Gate Charge: 13.3 nC
Minimum Operating Temperature: - 55 C
Maximum Operating Temperature: + 175 C
Pd - Power Dissipation: 45 W

$0.56

and

IRFZ24PBF-BE3

Package / Case: TO-220AB-3
Transistor Polarity: N-Channel
Number of Channels: 1 Channel
Vds - Drain-Source Breakdown Voltage: 60 V
Id - Continuous Drain Current: 17 A
Rds On - Drain-Source Resistance: 100 mOhms
Vgs - Gate-Source Voltage: - 20 V, + 20 V
Vgs th - Gate-Source Threshold Voltage: 4 V
Qg - Gate Charge: 25 nC
Minimum Operating Temperature: - 55 C
Maximum Operating Temperature: + 175 C
Pd - Power Dissipation: 60 W

$1.18 each

Can either one of these be used in a RCI-69 Base that uses four- RT1's? I see difference in threshold voltage and 15 watts difference in Power dissipation.

I've ordered both types just to have but I have the 2030+s in the 69 base right now. I have 520's and tried them, seems I had higher dead key on the 520's but the 2030+s has lower dead key and less control on RF power knob but the 2030+ seems to swing a bit better. I ultimately want to put the correct finals back in but was wondering if either of these two versions would work or one would be better output than the other?
942-IRFZ24NPBF or IRFZ24PBF-BE3? Sorry for the bold typing, it came from copy and paste. But the reason I blew one of the original RT1s was a intermittent shorted jumper now corrected.

Thanks,
Rhinoky

Rhinoky, the only 2 things I can tell you about this is that
1) the IRFZ24NPBF was told to me by the only guy working currently at Ranger (by the name of Roger, who says he has been working there for approx 35 yrs) to be what should be used. I know in one of my previous posts I said Ranger wasn't replying to my emails but I eventually got thru to Ranger by phone and Roger was very knowledgeable. A bit difficult to understand him thru his thick accent but the main thing is he told me to use the IRFZ24NPBF BEFORE I mentioned I aleardy had them and he also looked it up in some paperwork he had there before he gave me that number so I felt pretty solid about the IRFZ24NPBF's at that point.

I should add that I believe the "PBF" suffix has something to do with being materials compliant (RoHs?) as opposed to same device w/o the PbF suffix, however I have no clue as to the suffix & prefix you noted. I would've thought those were only part of the manufacturer stock # or some other less than significant thing, but you have info that shows a couple major differences in the dissipation & voltage, so I am surprised by that and I wonder if it's accurate or not? It just doesn't sound right to me.. Maybe it would be in order to test that threshold voltage?

The other thing
2) is that I installed the IRFZ24NPBF's in the N3 and carefully set the bias in the radio and the amp using the current method and using the numbers given to me by the Ranger warranty go to guy (80mA) per transistor. That is from Chris who does the Ranger repair work so I trust it is correct. The bias could not be "zeroed out" first, on the radio but could be zeroed 1st on the amp and then of course the current was added cumulatively for the radio finals and the amp dual sets of 4. So approx 160 mA on the on top of the existing current present, for the radio finals and approx 320mA, starting from zero, on ea of the 2 sides of the amp for a total of about 640mA. I understand you are dealing with a different radio but I thought that info would be useful here anyway.

I should also mention that when I tested the radio/amp when finished, it did not put out the wattage hoped for and expected and the 100 ohm resistor on the output side was burning up. So there is still something wrong with the rig. During the process of changing out the toasted RT1's and also replacing some bad smt resistors associated with the RT1 PAs, I couldn't help but lose a few pads. I was very careful in making jumpers for those, so I don't know what went wrong but the bias current #s came from Chris and the procedure I used to set the bias was ok'd by him so I was very disappointed at the outcome. It did only about 200w pep and the bias resistor was burning up.

I hope the info about Roger from Ranger saying to use IRFZ24NPBF was helpful.

 

[Shockwave]

The gate threshold difference is enough that these parts are not interchangeable without accommodating for that change in voltage. There may not be enough bias rage adjustment, to use either part in the circuit. The one with the higher breakdown voltage, is going to be the more rugged part. We use to joke that manufacturers were just unloading this part on CBers, because it may have cost them a quarter each. Turns out we were wrong. In bulk it costs them 16.14 cents a piece...

Also notice, every test circuit shown on the datasheet uses a squarewave drive applied to the gate.

 

[Pete Fender]

I just got an RCI 2995 DXCF about 5 months ago, peaked and tuned by Clay's Electronics.
The radio was running fine, the everything went black, no smoke.
I disconnected the amp board (RT1's) and everything came back on without the amp board.
Instead of wasting time on fooling with the mosfets, I just installed a Texas Ranger DX 350.
Much more power, and much more dependable.
I still have a second 2995, with a third blown MOSFET board.
Great radio, but on board amp boards are problems waiting to happen.

 

[Nowurtalkin222]

I just got an RCI 2995 DXCF about 5 months ago, peaked and tuned by Clay's Electronics.
The radio was running fine, the everything went black, no smoke.
I disconnected the amp board (RT1's) and everything came back on without the amp board.
Instead of wasting time on fooling with the mosfets, I just installed a Texas Ranger DX 350.
Much more power, and much more dependable.
I still have a second 2995, with a third blown MOSFET board.
Great radio, but on board amp boards are problems waiting to happen.

Since the amplifier powers the radio, my guess would be you had a power plug disconnected or intermittent. And I assume you meant to say: Texas Star

 

[Nowurtalkin222]

Since the amplifier powers the radio, my guess would be you had a power plug disconnected or intermittent. And I assume you meant to say: Texas Star

I'm sorry, I meant the amp, powers the radio in the 2970 N3. I'm not sure if thats the case also in a 2995? And if so, might also be the big power diode

 

[Pete Fender]

I did mean Texas Star, I must be watching too many reruns of Walker.
MOSFETS are low in cost, bit the older boards with the 2290's lasted for years.
I have some of the older ones, but switching from Mosfet's to 2290's, the Mosfet board has a three wire plug and a two wire plug, the 2290 board has 2 two wire plugs.
I have three 2290 boards!

 

[Nowurtalkin222]

Lol. Great answer!

 

[Nowurtalkin222]

Lol. Great answer!

But the "Texas Ranger" would never have anything to do with anything more than single final 4 watts

 

[Pete Fender]

The Texas ranger can handle a single 454 driver.
If you over drive it with 16 volts, it can put out 460 Watts, but it is better to limit to 300 Watts.
The idea is to keep input in the center of the meter in the amp, and let it swing from there.
In my area, 250 is all I need, then I don't have to replace those hard to find 2879's.The single final will put out 30+ Watts, I was using it with no amp.
I know a Dosy meter is not the best, but it's what I have.

 

[Nowurtalkin222]

Lol, step away from the TV. Texas Ranger is Ranger cb line of radios. 2879s are not hard to find. They are, in fact, used in the Texas star amps. And they are currently performing about the same as the old Toshiba. The DEIs & the Hgs are now the same and kick ass in tests.

The Texas ranger can handle a single 454 driver.
If you over drive it with 16 volts, it can put out 460 Watts, but it is better to limit to 300 Watts.
The idea is to keep input in the center of the meter in the amp, and let it swing from there.
In my area, 250 is all I need, then I don't have to replace those hard to find 2879's.The single final will put out 30+ Watts, I was using it with no amp.
I know a Dosy meter is not the best, but it's what I have.

 

[Shockwave]

Lol, step away from the TV. Texas Ranger is Ranger cb line of radios. 2879s are not hard to find. They are, in fact, used in the Texas star amps. And they are currently performing about the same as the old Toshiba. The DEIs & the Hgs are now the same and kick ass in tests.

There hasn't been a real 2879 made in over a decade. All NOS was already sold off by the reputable resellers. It is well known that Texas star is using totally counterfeit Toshiba 2879's. The new HG parts simply break down at a lower voltage and output power than the real part ever did. The only thing they copied, was Toshiba's datasheet.

 

[Pete Fender]

Since the amplifier powers the radio, my guess would be you had a power plug disconnected or intermittent. And I assume you meant to say: Texas Star

Also, the power wires were tight, no diode problems.
Part of the MOSFET problem may be because of static.
Tampa is the lightning capital of Florida, and I'm just off Tampa Bay.
Our hockey team is called the lightnings, our area football team is the Tampa Storms.
I'm not the only one with this problem here.
They are just too fragile.

 

[Shockwave]

Since the amplifier powers the radio, my guess would be you had a power plug disconnected or intermittent. And I assume you meant to say: Texas Star

He had shorted output transistors in the amplifier board. The new switching power supplies used in these radios are current limited. Therefore, when the PA board eventually shorts out, the power supply voltage drops to zero. In order to restore operation, you now disconnect the useless PA board from the radio.

 

[Nowurtalkin222]

There hasn't been a real 2879 made in over a decade. All NOS was already sold off by the reputable resellers. It is well known that Texas star is using totally counterfeit Toshiba 2879's. The new HG parts simply break down at a lower voltage and output power than the real part ever did. The only thing they copied, was Toshiba's datasheet.

I have seen 1 video that allegedly shows a counterfiet Toshiba installed in a new 350. I don't know if that video is legit or not, in its conclusion. I find it very hard to believe that Texas star with their good reputation and years of using other brand name 2879s, would stoop to such a low thing as to knowingly & purposefully installing counterfiet toshibas. I simply don't believe they would do that. And I don't know why they would do it either? The original DEIs & HGs were fraught with problems, as I understand it, but according to all the testing I have seen in the last couple years, those issues have been overcome. DEI & HG have been shown to me to be the exact same device now and the performance tests show them to do the same or better than the old toshibas. All you need to do is watch the hundreds of videos that show extensive bird testing including major overvolting & over driving that show those pills to perform fantastically. I also have spoken directly to 2 folks directly involved in building those amps and they also assure the newer 2879s work great. Ironically tho, it is one of those 2 amp builders who make all those videos I spoke of above, who also is the dude who made the video showing a brand new 350 w/a fake Toshiba, or what he said was a fake. It was hard to see in the video. So I don't know how that came about or if Texas star is sending out new 350s w/fake toshibas or not. I know I bought one not that long ago (a few mos) and it did not have any fake Toshiba. Can't recall if it was an HG or a DEI but it doesn't matter as they are the same device these days.