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RG-58/U or the much more$$ LMR 400

We seem to be limiting ourselves to the worst or best possible feedline commonly used for CB? I have no problem with using better then needed quality, but honestly, LMR-400 is overkill for this application.

Loss info on different cables below taken from here, and using 27.185MhZ for the frequency.

RG-58, 1.2 dB or 23.7% loss over 50 feet.
RG-8X, 0.9 dB or 19.3% loss over 50 feet.
LMR-240, 0.6 dB or 13.6% loss over 50 feet.
RG-213, 0.5 dB or 10.8% loss over 50 feet.
LMR-400, 0.3dB or 7.2% loss over 50 feet.

This information comes with some qualifiers, the data was taken from Times Microwave's site, they make high quality coax. Feedline of the same type from another manufacturer is not necessarily up to the above specs, and if it is the crap that comes from Radio Shack or a Chinese company expect it to be much worse...

To put losses in perspective, a remote unit with a radio and a properly calibrated s-meter will barely notice the difference between the RG-58 and the LMR-400, if they notice it at all. A one s-unit drop would require a 75% (or 6 dB) loss in power to achieve, and the amount of difference in the above cables at said length and frequency aren't even close to that. The difference with the above cables at said frequency and length will be less than 1/4 of an s-unit on the recieve station.

Something else to consider in relation to feedline losses is the apparent SWR of the antenna at the far end of the feedline. Losses in a feedline only make the SWR on the far end appear better then it actually is. The more losses you have the better your SWR appears to be. If you have enough losses in your feedline it will hide a tuning (or other potential) problem with the antenna itself. A tuning problem hidden behind feed line losses can have as much of an effect on antenna system losses as the losses in the feedline. For an example, a thread that shows the SWR differences using RG-58AU coax over 100 feet can be found here.

You would be surprised at how often when someone upgrades their feedline they see a higher SWR and think the new feedline is the cause of their problem, when in reality their antenna was never tuned as well as it could/should have been in the first place.


The DB
 
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You are correct, there is more to buying feedline than losses, although that is a major concern in longer runs typically of 100 feet or more. For example, if the feedline is going to be in a rough environment then the "armored" RG213 is the most durable (and ironically best shielded, some RG-213 have three separate shielding layers). If you need flexibility, the thinner RG-8X and LMR-240 are good options, and of course they make an ultraflex version of LMR-400.

The goal should be getting the coax that will best meet your needs. Sometimes due to these other factors LMR-400 just doesn't fit the bill. But if it meets your needs and your willing to pay the typically small extra amount to get it by all means go for it.


The DB
 
Touch Call...

Given only 50 feet and no major power..
The 58 should be Ok..

Myself though...
I prefer the better Stuff...
Have Both ability to handle power better if i wanted to in futrure.
Plus...even though one may be cutting hairs given 50 feet..

I would think..the lower loss cable will help you Hear better as well.

Since it does not seem to be an issue of Cost..
I would Stay with the LMR-400..

I have a run of 140 ft and even though not for high power..
I went with even Better then the LMR-400..
Please let us know what is better than the LM-400
 
And just for grins. The last batch of LMR-400 I bought cost about $1.10 per foot including shipping. (100 feet, plus shipping to my door was $120.00 give or take a few cents. The cost of shipping to YOU may cost more, how can I say?) I'm in Oklahoma and the dealer was in Texas. That dealer is not a sponsor here so if you ask I'll tell you. Then you are on your own.
- 'Doc

I forgot that I also bought 2-2' jumpers with that $75.00 cost same stuff LMR-400. I am not looking forward to having to cut off one of the connectors when having to bore a hole through the house wall to get inside the basement then through the floor to where the radio is I don't seem to have very good soldering skills. I am also waiting on the delivery of a new scanner antenna a Antennacraft ST-2, I believe it's called also Radio Shack sells one that looks exactly the same It comes with a mount that is mounted 45 degrees from any mast or tower which makes it very versatile for installing to an already existing antenna mast.
 
I forgot that I also bought 2-2' jumpers with that $75.00 cost same stuff LMR-400. I am not looking forward to having to cut off one of the connectors when having to bore a hole through the house wall to get inside the basement then through the floor to where the radio is I don't seem to have very good soldering skills. I am also waiting on the delivery of a new scanner antenna a Antennacraft ST-2, I believe it's called also Radio Shack sells one that looks exactly the same It comes with a mount that is mounted 45 degrees from any mast or tower which makes it very versatile for installing to an already existing antenna mast.

dont cout off the connector. just drill your hole /holes the diameter of the pl- 259
instead of the size of coax. this way should you ever need to replace coax no resoldering
needed.and pl259s are same size for most 50 ohm coax so you wont have to redrill
either.lmr-400 coax is much better than rg58. better shielding
 
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dont cout off the connector. just drill your hole /holes the diameter of the pl- 259
instead of the size of coax. this way should you ever need to replace coax no resoldering
needed.and pl259s are same size for most 50 ohm coax so you wont have to redrill
either.lmr-400 coax is much better than rg58. better shielding

Believe me I want to keep the factory 239's on because I could never solder another one on as good. But I am thinking about the larger diameter of the hole I will be drilling through my house and drilling the size of the cable only is smaller and of course easier to seal back up and finding a bit that long and wide enough in diameter maybe hard to find using a standard sized chuck, tapered bits are even harder to find. although I am putting up a scanner antenna also and squeezing the rg6? coax for the scanner into the same hole might take up the extra diameter hole and justify the large hole I will be boring! Thanks for the comment it got me rethinking this antenna routing and not removing the factory soldered 239.
 
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Overkill?? NAWWWW!

The coax might be overkill, but it will have better shielding, which is a good thing. If'n you got the funds, then buy the good stuff. Sometimes, it just ain't about the loss factor.

Just for a little something to think about...In 1973 or 74 my Dad and I put up our New Avanti Sigma 5/8 Base antenna. (I STILL HAVE AND USE IT) Back then there were only 2 coax available in this area...the RG8 ("the little stuff") and the RG58 ("The BIG STUFF") Well Daddy bought the "Big Stuff" for our new Base. I kept it there until 1980 when I moved in my present location. Put it up here, still using the original RG58 (The Big Stuff)...Took it all down in 1989 I think it was. I retired in 2005 and decided to put the Sigma back up a month ago. I got the "Big Stuff" out with the Sigma....Ohm meter in hand, tested it over the 50 Ft length for breaks, cracks, shortage, etc...Still in great shape. SO, YES I am using in again after all these years....now, that would be what....yep 40 yrs with well over 20 years of exposure to the elements and 20 more years in the DRY but cold/hot. The people at one of the internet rip off suppliers told me I was "Crazy" for not replacing the old RG58 with a NEW RG58...called RG 58X...I bought some of it to use in other projects and....WHAT??? The blasted "Little Stuff"!!!!! I called 'em about it and they want to tell me it is BETTER than the "Big Stuff". I cannot believe that....I am NOT an expert at much of anything...but I do know the larger the wire, the more current it will safely carry at a longer distance....any thoughts on this besides mine and an idiot saleman? Anyone wants to know who the company is just ask.
 
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You appear to have RG-8 and RG-58 mixed up. RG-8 is much thicker than RG-58, and always has been. Also RG-58 does not have an "X" version to my knowledge, however RG-8 does have an RG-8X version that is widely used.

I'de love to put that "the thick stuff" you have on my analyzer just to see what properties it currently has.

I am curious as to what testing you have done on the coax to see that it is in fact working as it is supposed to be, or did you simply hook it up and see if you could talk to someone?


The DB
 
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TD126,
I'm afraid you got those coax sizes mixed up, the RG-8 is the 'big stuff' and RG-58 is the 'little stuff'. But I think we understood what you were saying anyway.
You are right, the larger the wire/conductor the more current it can carry. That is because that larger wire has a characteristic called resistance, the opposition of current flow. The less resistance you have the more current you can get through the conductor. But there's a 'catch' with radio frequency stuff, it isn't DC, it's AC current that's flowing, and then it starts to get complicated. That resistance is called impedance with Alternating Current and there are several other things that will affect it. The type of insulation used between those two conductors in coaxial cable can make a huge difference in impedance along with the relative size of the two conductors, the center one and the braid. Depending on the length of the run of that cable, the smaller RG-58 typically can handle almost as much power as the bigger stuff. There isn't as much loss as might be thought. Both of those cables are rated as 50 ohms impedance. Keep in mind that 'impedance' isn't exactly the same as 'resistance'! See what I mean about confusing?
None of this is a very 'definitive'/scientific explanation, it's just a 'ball-park' sort of thingy. The information about all this is common electrical theory so shouldn't be that hard to find if you really want to understand it. That 'understanding it' requires some basic electrical theory so count on spending some time learning any of it.
Have at it!
- 'Doc
 
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