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scare tactic ?

Remo

Member
Sep 1, 2009
48
0
16
now im a newb and im not trying to stir the pot, or start an argument but i have a question.
i have seen this countless times on numerous forums, this one included.

here it is:
someone who isnt a HAM asks a question, and the answer ends up to the effect of "dont use HAM frequencies because the legal operators of that freq WILL FIND YOU and turn you in ..... yada yada" im sure you know what im getting at.

Anyways.. What im getting at is just how do they do this? how often do hams really go out of their way to do this? is it just a scare tactic that the hams like to say, or are some hams really that anal about it?

im not looking for a lecture of the legalities of it. i know its a law, and i do follow it. im not debating that, just looking for a real answer, not an argument.
 

Some hams are really that anal about it. You already knew that.

edit to add:

I have a license and I don't give a damn what you do, just use a condom.
 
I can tell you that the Hams in/around the South Bay Area/Santa Clara Valley CA go out of their way to find anyone messing with the 2 meter repeater. One math prof and an electrical engineer have put together a phased/delay antenna system on a vehicle to be able to locate any illegal interloper. It works - too.
 
If you do it on a regular basis you will most definitely be caught. If it is done occasionally, on different frequencies, it would be difficult to be caught.

However as easy as it is to get even the Extra Class license now days there really is no reason to risk being caught. Then when you factor in the availability of the CB type services why even bother....


:pop::pop:
 
Are there really hams who are that 'anal' to find someone who interferes? I'm sure there are. I'm also sure that the majority may 'talk' about it but have never done so, and probably couldn't if they wanted to, just don't have the ability. I know that there have been times when I would have loved to have been able to do so. That isn't just CB'ers who might be on the bands, but other hams. I'm sure almost everyone has felt that way at one time or another.
The ability to do that sort of 'tracking down' is much easier on VHF/UHF bands than on HF bands. The ranges involved are much shorter and the required antenna systems are much smaller.
Does it actually happen very often? No, it doesn't, no matter what band or who'z doing it. Can it be done by hams? Sometimes, but rarely. Can the FCC do it? Of course they can, they have hugely more resources for it. Do they do it? Not very often, those resources aren't at their beck'n'call all of the time. You can take it for granted that when they are motivated to use those resources, they do, and someone will hear about it.
So, most of the "track'em down'n hang'em" is scare talk. The key word in that is 'most', which doesn't mean all. If you hear someone talking about it, it probably isn't to likely. If you don't hear people talking about it, you might give it another thought or two. And if it ever gets really quiet... the interferer better shut up too. But don't tell'em that!
- 'Doc
 
You know that thread that was posted earlier about the company that got fined in SoCal for using a ham 2m frequency on their construction site? That was right down the street from me. I know the guy that found them. He was nice at first and informed them that they were using frequencies on their radio that they weren't supposed to. After they blew him off, he just called the local FCC enforcement office and a fine was handed down.

In this case, it wasn't just that he went "out of his way" to find them...they were actually interfering with the legitimate use of that frequency. It's not all that difficult to find someone, especially if they're using vhf/uhf local frequencies. There are guys that make a sport/competition out of finding the location of a hidden transmitter - it's called fox hunting.
 
it just makes me laugh because the guys who the hams are informing/scaring (whatever you wanna call it) are usually mobile, and using 10 meter export radios. id assume that they would be sticking to 11 meters anyway. who knows, maybe they venture off into the freq's they are not supposed to, but even then, my point is that they are mobile, does this not make "fox hunting" a little more difficult?
 
it just makes me laugh because the guys who the hams are informing/scaring (whatever you wanna call it) are usually mobile, and using 10 meter export radios. id assume that they would be sticking to 11 meters anyway. who knows, maybe they venture off into the freq's they are not supposed to, but even then, my point is that they are mobile, does this not make "fox hunting" a little more difficult?
There is a 'no-man's land' above a CB's ch 40 and the 10 meter band. Also below ch 1. Sometimes referred to as 'the freebands' - but in truth - they aren't. But even those freq's are dotted with areas set aside for the US Gov't - an any interloper takes a chance that they don't come down on them.

Hams do practice 'fox hunts' for this very purpose. Some local groups practice it often to keep sharp at it and to train new Hams in order to maintain watchfulness...

I use a 2 meter and a 10 meter radio and operate them legally on those bands. But if someone knowingly uses Ham freq's in a mobile; they run the risk of eventually being caught. There are LOTS of Hams out there; more than CB'ers - by far. So, they are VERY protective of their rights -collectively- and are the first step for band regulation. Hams self-police the band usage. When someone has been warned and continues to violate; they then turn them over to the FCC and the Hams give the FCC all the info they have - this establishes a case. The FCC has state-of-the-art equipment that can locate the perpetrator EASILY. If mobile; they follow until they can verify. Then, they send the registered owner of that vehicle a letter with a large fine against them.

Is it worth it - to use Ham freq's illegally?
It isn't; that is the whole point...
 
Last edited:
im not saying its not possible. im saying i dont believe its probable.

i just dont see hams dropping everything they are doing the second the hear someone who isnt supposed to be on a particular freq. and gathering with some other hams and go out on a foxhunt to find the bandit. if he is mobile, he could be in the next town by the time one phone call is made.
 
no, been mobile makes it easier to track anybody down, we do it on 11mtrs,
a base station situated within say 25miles usually takes no more than 45 minutes, 4x4's can be easier or harder depending on where they park and how well hidden/how well they use terrain and obstructions to fool the hunters but rarely is the fox not found within a couple of houres unless its me and my buddy hiding;)
over larger areas its the driving time and fuel costs that take the pleasure out of it, if all hunters are experienced and work together its not difficult to find almost anybody.
 
From what I have seen as a new ham, there are a couple different ways of dealing with someone who is on a ham freq and shouldn't be.

1. If it sounds like someone who is new or generally clueless, but trying to do the right thing hams will point them in the right direction.
2. If it sound like the kids found dads radios, the hams will ignore the kids so they get bored and go away.
3. If you cause problem or threaten someone the hams will hunt you down and make sure you pay in one way or another. I listened to someone on another non-ham board explain how their club worked with the local cops and feds to kick in someone's door in the middle of the night because the suspects threatened the old ham who ran the local repeater.

This being said I have also talked to some old hams who say that as long as you were nice and polite and had a legitimate call sign, no one would ever know if you were legit or just using someone else's call sign.
 
it just makes me laugh because the guys who the hams are informing/scaring (whatever you wanna call it) are usually mobile, and using 10 meter export radios. id assume that they would be sticking to 11 meters anyway. who knows, maybe they venture off into the freq's they are not supposed to, but even then, my point is that they are mobile, does this not make "fox hunting" a little more difficult?

Maybe more difficult, but certainly not impossible. In the NC area, for a while there were hams patrolling the local truck stops and interstate highways looking for truck drivers who were using the bottom end of 10 meters. A few letters from the FCC to their companies drove them off of the ham bands.

Radio Fox hunting is fun and easy with the right set up. There are guys who are really good at DFing a signal from practice. Most active hams can tell you a lot about the radio atmosphere where they live, just because they have lived and used the radio in the same area for years. They can listen to a signal and sometimes get a good idea which direction the signal is coming from.

I live near the mountains, when a 2 meter signal is coming from the North, I can tell just by listening to it, it has a distinct anomoly that only signals coming from the North seem to have (maybe refraction off of the mountain???)

A seasoned fox hunter can find someone fairly quickly, even if mobile. If they are working in teams, it is even more effective, and usually the offender does not even know they are being DF'ed. A lot of hams work in teams and don't even use the same band as the offending signal, so as not to scare the fox so to say.

73
 
More often than not, it is done by one or two hams instead of this huge group of people mobilizing to go "hunt' a bootlegger station. With the truckers (who have been one of the worst about straying up into 10 Meters), sometimes they get caught because the hams simply listen or scan 28 MHZ while going to work or running errands. The drivers then give themselves away by talking about this "car with a buncha antennas" on it coming up behind. That way, the ham who is listening has just identified the trucker who sometimes will also try to call the ham about "all them antennas". He is now busted as the amateur op simply records the truck's info off the door and turns it in to FCC. There were quite a few truckers turned in this way----including UPS and FedEx drivers.
While it can be a bit more difficult to locate mobile stations, it is not THAT hard. If it is, for example, someone who is local and operates in a specific geographic area, even some relatively primitive equipment can give up an illegal's position.:eek: I'll try to explain. If someone starts operating----say..........on 10 Meters with his export radio, a few of the hams would simply meet for coffee. Their tools are a beam antenna and a map of the area. They may also designate an HF frequency that is WAY outside 10, 11, or 12 Meters---something the interfering station is not likely to have access to. When the illegal station is heard they may also call each other on the phone and have each station swing their beams across the signal. Then they plot a line from their location that CROSSES the signal that is coming into them. Each station does the same. Then they bring their maps for coffee and "connect" the lines. With just TWO plots, + the offending station, it will form a rough triangle. Where THOSE LINES CROSS IS WHERE THE OFFENDER IS:eek: The triangle doesn't have to be perfect; it can be all sorts of shapes, but it will show where the station is: it is called TRIANGULATION, btw, for obvious reasons! What if the station is moving and showing up at various places at different times? Well, you take as many plots as you can, and look at them to see where this signal appears the most, the most used direction of travel, times of day the signal is most frequent, and, of course, the general vicinity of the signal. All this data can be saved in a computer file until a "profile" begins to form. And, yes, it can take weeks to gather this data, but it DOES work. Even if the tracking stations can't track at the same time or EVERYTIME the signal appears, each station can gather enough data to form a "picture" of the interfering signal. FCC, tho, has some AWESOME equipment, and suffice it to say, it is like OnStar on STEROIDS using satellites and remote "stealth" antennas they can even sit in Columbia, MD and monitor!! It IS costly, so one has to really get someone MAD to stir the Feds to action. Still, there are plenty of actions against CB operators of late along with some misbehaving hams, too!

But WHY would this even be an issue (or a question) unless you were being "tempted" to operate ON the ham bands illegally? It is something I would certainly caution you about, and I do not agree that hams are being "anal" because they attempt to seek out those who ignore laws and rules that THEY had to learn (and follow). I'm sure there are some who will jump me immediately about this position.......................BUT!!!!!!! There are good reasons why hams have a more strict view of unlicensed operators on their bands. Part of the problem is FCC ITSELF that removed licensing from CB in the 80's. This helped to bring on an "appliance" mentality and a situation where NOBODY even bothered to read the rules for CB anymore! It fostered a free-for-all, law-breaking, let's-throw-all-rules-out-the-window mentality, a SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST atmosphere, and a genre of people who had never HAD to abide to rules before. THEY just went out and bought a CB radio and had at it.
To THEM, WHY should THEY have to obey any rules, and they saw no reason why they couldn't just invite themselves onto the ham bands, too!
HUH???? A LICENSE??? I don't NEED no 'license', I've got this BIG radio with all them 'channels' and I've got a "right". It just so happens the incumbent licensees on "them channels" happen to OBJECT. Try to see it this way: If you buy a house, you expect the LAW to protect you from intrusion, right. If somebody just walked into your house, brushed past you, then got a STEAK out of the fridge, then what????? You'll stop him at gunpoint (or other means of force), call the LAW to come and STOP this thief. or a combination of BOTH!!!!! Does THAT make YOU "anal" because you STOPPED this guy from taking something that belongs to YOU? It is what LAWS, RULES, and REGULATIONS are FOR: to protect innocent citizens from loss, damage or injury. Same with radio. A ham starts out just like everybody else. He EARNS his privileges by doing what the law requires. So, one day he attempts to USE one or more of the frequencies his license permits, only to find some dolt happily yapping away on AM in the digital portion of 10 Meters. Maybe the perp is local, maybe not. But this inteference is NOT welcome, so the ham(s) seek out the interloper and turn him in to the "cops"---which, in this case, happens to be FCC. WHY does that make HIM "anal" and not the guy who called the cops for STEALING from him?

The usual argument I get is, "Well, its "different": we ain't hurting anything by using them channels" It is NOT different!!!!! By operating on the bands assigned to other users, you are depriving the rightful users of the abilility or the potential for use, of that privilege. "Well, it's different because there's no 'danger' from using a radio". It is STILL preventing the rightful user from having access to those frequencies at the TIME they may want it!!! So, the ham(s) will then seek out interlopers and turn them IN. It is how the bands are prevented from becoming a cesspool of noise, arguments, and just plain trouble.


CWM
 
Part of the problem is FCC ITSELF that removed licensing from CB in the 80's

I've often heard that the FCC stopped licensing and enforcement per say of CB because of under funding. But in reality they lost $200,000,000 in potential license fees when a Federal Court overturned the FCC's license structure. The FCC instead of appealing it or overhauling its license fee structure they decided to suspend all collection of license fees Jan.1, 1977 . I believe that would in itself gave a whole lot of funding. I believe they became overwhelmed with the paper work dealing with the amount of CB op's-
By the end of 1977 over 10,000,000 CB licenses were issued.

Ham-Shack.com : The History Of Amateur Radio
 

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