Scrounging and Hording copper wire....

[W5LZ]

BJ radionut,
That ladder line is fun to play with isn't it? Remarkable what 'can' work if you try hard enough (and are silly enough to try some really weird things). And you're right, the ladder line and a good tuner is almost 'fool proof', sort of. Don't have to worry/wonder about a lot of things you do with coax. Then again, it does have a few draw backs. Can't lay it on the ground, gotta keep it away from some things, etc, etc.
I've also used various sized wire in the same antenna. Ran out of one size, untangled the 'rats-nest' for some additional wire, almost never the same size, sort of thingy. No idea how it affected things, but it works.
Because I was in a position to 'recover' lots of that wire the phone company uses for phone 'drops', I've used that for antennas too. Just shorted the two conductors and splice when needed. Not pretty by any means, but if it breaks there would be nothing that would have withstood whatever broke it. (I've pulled cars with that stuff.)
Oh well...
- 'Doc

 

[WX2MIG]

I haven't actually gotten to in depth as far as reading up on dipole construction, so let me throw a question or two at you guys......

Can 50 ohm coax be directly connected to the elements, or do I need some sort of balun......?

If heavy enough wire is used, can a dipole be strung up by it's ends, or do I have to support it from the middle......?

Can a dipole for higher frequencies like 10m, 6m, and 2m be constructed out of copper pipe, or is wire a must......?


I did some tree trimming today to clear back some of my neighbor's trees that were growing over my garage, and dangling too close to my VHF antennas. When I got done, I took a survey of available trees that can be used to string up an HF dipole. I'm not sure I have enough room to string up a 160m flat top dipole, but if I engineer things right I do have the room to make it an inverted "V".
My plan is to run some of that green plastic coated guy wire between the farthest trees, with a pulley attached in the middle, and hoist it up with nylon braid fed through the pulley. This will give me a center point where I can hoist and lower the center of the dipole antenna. Now the one tree is much higher than the other, so I will try to get each end up as far as I possibly can, don't know if it'll get a full 1/2 wave length up from the ground, but it should be close. From there I'll attempt to get both ends up flat, but I don't see that happening too easily, so plan "B" is the inverted "V" configuration.
Since my garage will be located at one end of the antenna, I'll probably need to buy a 75 to 100 foot length of coax to reach from the center connection to the radio......

Another question.....
Will standard RG/58 be good enough for HF, or do I need to buy the better RG/8U stuff like I have for my VHF antennas......???

 

[packrat]

dipole

Just make sure the ends are high enough above ground that noone can reach them. They will be hot when you are transmitting!

 

[Moleculo]

you can run the wire inside pvc pipe to keep it verticle or horozontal . use thick wall s40

Yeah, and you can use the "foam in a can" that's used in construction inside the pvc to keep the wire in place if you install it vertical. Actually, that trick works if you want to make a yagi also.

 

[WX2MIG]

Just make sure the ends are high enough above ground that no one can reach them. They will be hot when you are transmitting!

That shouldn't be a problem, I'm just wondering if I'll end up with a pile of cooked tweetie birds under the antenna.......

 

[W5LZ]

Can a dipole be directly fed without a balun? Yes, it's done all the time. Size of wire used determines how you should/could support the thing. Typically, something the size of 14 ga. will hold it's self and a lot of other stuff up in the air. The only real problem with using household type wire is that it's sort of 'soft', it stretches. Pre-stretch it and no big deal, or just remember to shorten it if it get's too much out of line, sort of.
Frying 'tweety-birds'? In something like 40 years of playing with radios and antennas I can't remember ever seeing a single birdy fried by an antenna. Maybe one or two sort of 'stunned' cuz they weren't paying attention to where they were going, but no fried ones.
For shorter antennas, ones for the higher bands, the conductor used has to be able to conduct electricity. After that is doesn't really matter what you use, as long as it's half way reasonable mechanically. Eight inch cast iron pipe would work, but supporting it would be sort of unreasonable, kind'a.
- 'Doc

That 14 ga. used as an example isn't the 'standard' size of wire for wire antenna, it's just probably the most commonly available, so it's used a lot. I think it's about as small as I would like to use though. And for really long antennas I think I'd go a size larger maybe. Just depends on what I happen to have.

 

[packrat]

tweety birds!

Let us know how they taste?

 

[N9RZD]

not exactly on topic but ,
every summer a ham in missouri
Host's "the Strange Antenna Challenge "
this year its on Memorial Day

K0S Strange Antenna Challenge Information Links by Erik Weaver n0ew and Dwayne Walker wb5plj

Guys load up anything they think will resonate
and collect qso.s , then send in pictures
and the he awards certificates , WOW :

they use things like ladders , lawnfurniture ,
lawnmowers , porch rails ,trailers , tents ,etc

i remember talking to a guy on 80 mtrs a while back who was
using the Guttering on his house , with radials buried in the yard
as he lived in a ccr housing development
he was throwing me s-7 from texas
and then another guy from michigan who was using the metal roof of his shed , who had simply run out of room for more antennas

point is ,almost anything can be made to work
if your resourceful enough

 

[WX2MIG]

I'm working on a class #1 brain fart of an idea that just might solve any support issues.....

It would involve asking my neighbor if I can use one of his trees to support one end, but this guy is pretty laid back, and I doubt he'd have any objections....(as long as my hamming doesn't interfear with him watching baseball games on the TV).....

So here's my brain fart.....(I mean brain storm).......stretch some plastic coated guy wire from the highest possible point of my neighbor's one tree, to the highest point of the tree on the opposite end of my property.
Now this is where it gets interesting.....using 3/4" schedule #40 PVC pipe & fittings, take a "T" fitting and attack end caps on the two opposite ends of the "T", drill holes in the end caps so the plastic coated guy wire slides easily through. On the remaining part of the "T", drill a hole for an eye bolt, and securely attach a stainless eye bolt to it with washers & lock nuts. Attach a pulley to the eye bolt, and run a length of good quality weather resistant braided line through the pulley. When I pull the guy wire up tight between these two tree tops and secure the ends, I'll be able to move the pulley and PVC slide device so that I can change the center support of any length dipole to keep it as close to the garage as possible. The pulley system will also allow me the ability to raise and lower any wire antenna configuration I wish to make, and it will also be very easy to lower it for adjustments. If I make a longer, or shorter dipole, then I'll be able to move it's center point to wherever I need to, and the center will always be supported via the guy wire with the hoisting line attached to any point along my back fence.
I'll need to do this before these maple trees start to sprout leaves in the spring since it'll be much easier firing a hoisting line into the trees while they are still bare, and once the trees do bloom, this thing should go pretty much un-noticed........

As I start to put things together, I'll try and remember to take photo's to better illistrate my idea......

 

[W5LZ]

I don't see why that wouldn't work, with possibly one variation. It it were me, I think I'd use a cord/rope instead of wire as that support line. There's bound to be some interaction between metal and the supported antenna, sort of a toss-up as to how much, but eliminating that metal wouldn't be a bad idea. Just wish I had the trees to put one'a them thingys between!
- 'Doc

 

[74IN]

"Hoarding" copper?

A gal went to the bank to cash in alot of change and small bills.

The teller asked, "Did you hoard all this money by yourself?"

She answered, " Naw, my sister whored half of it."

 

[rfoverlord]

"Hoarding" copper?

A gal went to the bank to cash in alot of change and small bills.

The teller asked, "Did you hoard all this money by yourself?"

She answered, " Naw, my sister whored half of it."

now that was funny Scary part is there are actually people walking around this country that are that dumb.

 

[74IN]

Scary part is there are actually people walking around this country that are that dumb.

A loose woman with money is not too scary.

 

[74IN]

daegaba system

What is that?

I googled it and half of it was you.

 

[Robb]

74IN:
The "Degaba System" is referring to the movie 'Star Wars". It is the star system that had a planet where Yoda lived. He was sought out by Luke Skywalker so he could be trained to become a Jedi Knight by Yoda.
Or something like that...