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Signal Engineering antennas

Re: Sinal Engineering L4+

"The SE 4 Element Quad Beam Antenna was feed the same way the Avanti PDLII 2 Element Quad Antenna was feed"

This is not true, the PDL used a orbital Gamma Match, that is actually a folded dipole, and the driven element was made out of metal and not fiberglass spreaders. This antenna worked very well, much better than the SuperHawk I own. I still have several PDLII's in the garage.

The other issue with the SE 4 is.. (I have one of these also): Is that its a mini quad design! The driven element is 27' with 9' being drawn in towards the boom to be part of the matching system. At least .5 db lower gain than a full resonant loop design. The shield also just gets hose clamped to the Boom! NOT GOOD.

I don't know why a Balun wasn't used, (possibly because SE doesn't make one, and didn't want to pay to get it made) with a full wave loop. And the plastic spreaders look cheap, but mine worked just fine, and stayed up ok. The screws that hold the fiberglass spreaders to the aluminum centers through need to be re-thunk. They will fail for sure.
-------------------------
I also have one of your 10K's Jay. Its a great Hygain Penetrator replacement, and it works about the same as the old Hygain Penetrator as well. I'm not too crazy about the 22" trombone matching system (I think you are losing some radiation there) , but the antenna works great and is made to last through any weather that might be encountered. As far as it out performing a 4 element Quad design, (even a poor one)thats another story. Look its a good antenna but you can't change physics.
 
se quad

I don't understand. My drive element on a lighting 4+ is 36'6" how can you say its a mini quad. the feed system is like a quarter wave tuning stub. SE quad could use a balun but you have to lose the dual polarity. that is why they have a patent on the feed system. SE quad IMO is not a mini quad but a full wave quad. that is voltage fed and not current fed like tradidtional quads
 
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I have a "clone" of the Lightning 4, made by a local guy. He optimized it for tight rear-corner rejection, rather than for forward gain or front-to-back.

that was a post by nomad radio .i first talked to him in 98,and
boy did that quad and 2980rci he was useing sound great out here in cali.i was moblie so i got his info and sent my rci 2950 to him and i feel and lots of others that my radio is one of the best radios we have ever heard. and it stll kicks butt today.thanks nomad :LOL: :LOL: look out for cdx1220 .aka stonecold in the monster mobil. cali.
 
Re: Sinal Engineering L4+

Hello Supergonzo:

Jay Said:
"The SE 4 Element Quad Beam Antenna was feed the same way the Avanti PDLII 2 Element Quad Antenna was feed"


Super Gonzo Said:
This is not true, the PDL used a orbital Gamma Match, that is actually a folded dipole, and the driven element was made out of metal and not fiberglass spreaders. This antenna worked very well, much better than the SuperHawk I own. I still have several PDLII's in the garage.

Yes I corrected this statement, but I think in another heading or maybe it didn't make it over when the Forum was transfered.

Supergonzo Said:
The other issue with the SE 4 is.. (I have one of these also): Is that its a mini quad design! The driven element is 27' with 9' being drawn in towards the boom to be part of the matching system. At least .5 db lower gain than a full resonant loop design. The shield also just gets hose clamped to the Boom! NOT GOOD.

Jay says:
Gee Whiz how do you measure .5 dB, and compared to what?!?!
Mini Quad?

Supergonzo Said:
I don't know why a Balun wasn't used, (possibly because SE doesn't make one, and didn't want to pay to get it made) with a full wave loop. And the plastic spreaders look cheap, but mine worked just fine, and stayed up ok. The screws that hold the fiberglass spreaders to the aluminum centers through need to be re-thunk. They will fail for sure.

Jay Says:
The Matching system has room for improvement I believe. But I have not measured or compared it to any other type of matching system. I will do my design much differently.

SE needs to improve their assembly instructions.


Supergonzo Said:
-------------------------
I also have one of your 10K's Jay. Its a great Hygain Penetrator replacement, and it works about the same as the old Hygain Penetrator as well. I'm not too crazy about the 22" trombone matching system (I think you are losing some radiation there) , but the antenna works great and is made to last through any weather that might be encountered. As far as it out performing a 4 element Quad design, (even a poor one)thats another story. Look its a good antenna but you can't change physics.[/quote]

Jay Said:
No its a much better replacement. I have measured it and compared it.

The 22" or so Trombone matching system DOES NOT RADIATE. This has been brought up on other Forums, The Trombone Hoops have equal current in them and they do not radiate. I have measured the Interceptor a number of times with different configurations while the antenna is rotated like a beam antenna in azmith. NO nulls or peakes are seen in the field strength.

The Interceptor 10K when compared to the SE 4 element quad beam antenna that we measured was significantly stronger than the SE 4 element quad beam antenna. This for the third time is why I have said there is something wrong with the SE quad beam antenna.

I beleive the SE quad was assembled with the elements possibility in the wrong order or sequence. I think SE needs to modify their assembly instructions showing the quads side and totoal lengths, so that this will not happen, by being checked in the assembly process. It might even be possibily that the color coded tape was the wrong quad wires that make the quad loops.

One of the other posters here talked about such a problem.

Changing Physics?, well when we know how antennas work then I will worry about changing physics. But in the mean time......

Jay in the Mojave

http://www.a1antennas.com
 
White Lightning

I recently put up a White Lightning Signal Engineering
Quad. Works great, its performance is unbelieveable.
The directions could of been better though...
 
Jay said: Jay says:
Gee Whiz how do you measure .5 dB, and compared to what?!?! Mini Quad?

Yes a mini quad,
Jay said: "how do you measure db?"
DB= 10log Power 1 / Power 2 X10

-------------------------------
How to measure:
Note accurately your current SWR, coax lenght, and antenna height and resonance. Change none of this during the procedure. Make sure SWR on both antennas is the same no matter what it is. Make sure both antennas are resonating the same on frequency you plan to use, by using an antenna analyzer such as a MFJ 259B.
Get a Digital Field Strenght meter such as a I.C. Engineering meter, with variable sensitivity and a output for a PL-259 standard antenna connection.
1.Connect your Field Strenght meter up to your buddies CB antenna. Or another Omni antenna on your antenna farm.
2. While on the phone with him, push 1 -10 watts out through your first antenna.
3. Tell him to adjust the Field Strenght meter so that he has a reading of 50 or 100, while you are transmitting. Then do not touch the Field Strenght meter at all.
4. Change antennas, just as before, and when transmitting through the new antenna, have your buddy note the new reading. adjust your wattage down so that, your new antenna reads 50 or 100 or EXACTLY the same on the field strenght meter as it did before.
5. Divide as before the lower wattage on the new antenna into the watts you used on the first antenna, and do the calculations.
6. You now have a very accurate measurement of the difference in wattage and the gain implied by the second antenna.
----------------------------------------
A 5/8 wave Omni will not beat a 4 element cubical quad period.
End of story.
-----------------
Jay said" The 22" or so Trombone matching system DOES NOT RADIATE."
Well you better get a new field strenght meter then because it does. I have measured it myself. Several times.
-----------------
JAY I like your antenna ALOT, and I know you are the builder. Its a good Hygain Penetrator replacement, Its a very good antenna, but NO antenna is perfect.
 
I put up a signal engineering Quad about
3 months ago and had little trouble getting
the match. Recently, a large bird pulled one of
the elements out of the hub. I pulled it down
and fixed the element and the self tapping screw
that holds the element into the hub.
Everything changed and i tried for 3 days to get
match correct again. Well, ended up get really
frustrated and i took it all apart, packed it in box.
Assembled my Shooting Star and put that up, until
i can figure the Quad out. I went over all measurements
and connections a million times it seems.
Just don't understand what happened. Hummmm
 
se quad

Which feedpoint are you having trouble matching the verticle or the horz it's probally the verticle. if it is both then I would suspect that your drive element has been stretched. I know SE says they prestetch the wires but they don't do a very good jod of it. I re-stretch all of my wires I get from from SE.
another problem I notice with matching the verticle feedpoint is to make sure the antenna is clear of the tower neck if your veticle feedpoint does not clear the tower neck it will lower the resonant point to some where around 26.850MHz. to test this theory rotate your beam in a box configuration this will prevent the verticle feedpoint from looking directly into the tower neck. and then re-match the beam it should work out for you but I really believe a portion of your drive element has been stretched hopes this helps.
 
No problem, the first thing I would do is to verify your elements are the proper length. Call SE talk to Tony tell him you think your elements may have streched by a bird and you need to know the element lengths for your antenna. Once you have the proper element lengths I would re-stretch all of elements to the proper length.
 

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