Slim Jim or J-pole antenna?

[Captain Kilowatt]

You just want to argue, let you use a coathanger if you want, just know how mine gets out and how the experienced ham operator whom I got the design and dimensions

I guess you should get that experienced ham friend if yours to design a yagi for you then. I'll bet you could work across the Atlantic and win the Brendan Award with it and 50 watts. I have run everything from homemade 1/4 waves to 13 element yagis and I do know how well a Slim Jim or a J pole works. They are a simple 1/2 wave and nothing more. Sorry dude but you nor your experienced ham buddy can rewrite the laws of physics. If it works good for you then GREAT. Just don't try to convince us knowledgeable and experienced folks that it is the greatest thing since sliced bread. It's not. It works well and that is the extent of it. A 5/8 Will work better at the same height. Once you understand REAL antenna theory and the laws of physics you can understand that.

 

[2RT307]

Interesting old thread. Just an update on the N9TAX slim jim I bought... it's been working great. I fold it up and stick it in my suitcase, and take my Baofeng UV-82 on trips. Hang it in my hotel room, and have fun on the repeaters. It allows me to hit the repeaters when I can't with the NA771 antenna. A lot of the repeaters are linked (Saltgrass, in particular) and I can talk to a lot of interesting people from all over the place. The antenna is well constructed, and hasn't had any problems at all.

73,
Brett

 

[The DB]

90% of our talk here is Simplex not repeaters,

OK... Strange...

yes I do understand and I may be new to HAM but not antennas or rf.

With all due respect, you do seem to be new to antennas. Either that or you have been filled with useless garbage, which isn't hard to do, especially in today's world...

My first antenna was a copper 1/4 wave I built with heavy copper wire and an SO-239 , copper radials and used an analyzer to set the vertical height.

good, so you have built more than one antenna for two meters, great, keep it up and build more...

One of the things I have ran into with HAM is that if they have a higher license than another they think they are that much smarter, bonkers on that.

I would agree with this statement for the most part and I'm an extra class ham... I know several extra class ham's that I wouldn't let near an antenna, and several people that have no ham license at all that know quite a bit more than the average ham. It isn't the class of the license but the knowledge of the operator that impresses me.

I will never convince you of anything and no I don't believe you ever built a slim jim out of copper pipe either or you would still be using it since it is a durable long lasting

Or I like experimenting and changed it up to see what another design can do... By the way I never stated what they were made out of... Nice little assumption, but you would be at least partially correct, I have made one out of copper pipe, but I have also made three out of 450 ohm window line and sealed them in a PVC tubing. I can get some PVC tube and make another up in about 10 to 20 minutes if I wanted to, its not like they are hard to make. Make a few measurements, tap the line and do some soldering, seal it all in a PVC tube... I would say the ones made out of 450 ohm window line seemed to perform a little better, but there wan't much of a difference between them...

You are right about one thing here, and that is until you start talking like you know what you are talking about you won't convince me of very much.

low takeoff talking antenna for very little money, just maybe you should get more educated on why HAMS developed the slim Jim over the J pole and why they use them. It will open up an area you seem to be lacking in. We learn and we grow.

The take off angle has almost nothing to do with the design of an antenna but a combination of the height of the current node above the earth and the quality of the earth itself. Those two things will have more of an effect on the take off angle than everything else combined when it comes to end fed verticals. If you have several antennas that are over 1/4 wavelength in length and all have the same tip height the take off angle will be so close to the same on all of them that you will never notice the difference. I can talk about this design, how and why it works, and even some weaknesses of the antenna, but you wouldn't bother to take the time to read it, or confirm any of what I would say, so I'm not going to bother here...

I highly suggest getting an ARRL Antenna Book and start reading. It is a well written book, and if you truely want to understand antennas it is very easy to read for most people at your level...


The DB

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

I would agree with this statement for the most part and I'm an extra class ham... I know several extra class ham's that I wouldn't let near an antenna, and several people that have no ham license at all that know quite a bit more than the average ham. It isn't the class of the license but the knowledge of the operator that impresses me.



The DB

I have always said it is not the class of license the operator has but rather the class of operator that has the license.

 

[Ironman1956]

I guess you should get that experienced ham friend if yours to design a yagi for you then. I'll bet you could work across the Atlantic and win the Brendan Award with it and 50 watts. I have run everything from homemade 1/4 waves to 13 element yagis and I do know how well a Slim Jim or a J pole works. They are a simple 1/2 wave and nothing more. Sorry dude but you nor your experienced ham buddy can rewrite the laws of physics. If it works good for you then GREAT. Just don't try to convince us knowledgeable and experienced folks that it is the greatest thing since sliced bread. It's not. It works well and that is the extent of it. A 5/8 Will work better at the same height. Once you understand REAL antenna theory and the laws of physics you can understand that.

Sorry to hear so much frustration from someone whom has tried so many different things and probably still cannot compete with my 2 meter rig. It is easy to get caught up in the trap of thinking you are the most knowledgeable person on a subject. There are only two kinds of people in the world those that listen and learn and those that have to feel their way through life and stumble often. Good chatting, hope you can merge and expand your knowledge as I have.

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

Sorry to hear so much frustration from someone whom has tried so many different things and probably still cannot compete with my 2 meter rig. It is easy to get caught up in the trap of thinking you are the most knowledgeable person on a subject. There are only two kinds of people in the world those that listen and learn and those that have to feel their way through life and stumble often. Good chatting, hope you can merge and expand your knowledge as I have.

I do not often say this but you are a complete asshole. You have NO idea WHY I have used so many different antennas. How about while mobile? What about the two years I lived in an apartment? What about using an omni for general simplex use? What about the 11 element yagi I used for reaching out to repeaters 100 miles away? What about the 13 element yagi horizontally polarized for 2m SSB? You see asshole there are MANY reasons someone would use several different antennas. Some of us don't just yack on simplex or a few repeaters all the time. As for your assertion that you listen and learn and expand your knowledge, all I can say js that you had better listen a LOT more and THEN you can expand your knowledge even more.

 

[The DB]

Sorry to hear so much frustration from someone whom has tried so many different things

Wow, you assume a lot... You assumed your contact from 70 miles away was made because of the antenna design, and were (are) wrong. You assumed that I didn't build the antenna you really like because I built other antennas since, and were wrong. You assumed that I didn't use copper tubing, something I didn't mention in my post, and were still wrong. You assumed that just because I didn't keep using that antenna, or immediately go back to using it, that I never actually built one, and was wrong again.

You now assume he has been frustrated because he has multiple different antennas for the same band? Well, all I can recommend here is to stop assuming, its not getting you very far...

You seem to want to say that one antenna is the best possible antenna for all situations. The problem with that line of thinking is there is no one best possible antenna for all situations. I can go through multiple antenna designs, where they excel and where they don't work well. Each antenna has its good points and bad points. One antenna may work great for you, but not well for someone else. How about I give an example, I'll even limit it to vertical antennas to keep is closer to the antenna you think is the best without question...

Situation one, you live in a flat area with no hills. A single longer antenna will be better, but only to a point. Often a collinear array is used here, or multiple antennas in a vertical line fed in phase. This will keep as much of the signal in as flat a region as possible, and give the absolute best range within a local space. Lets look at another possible situation, your atnenna is on top of a mountain and you want to talk to the people in the town/city below. The shorter antennas pattern will cover a wider space, and because of it may allow communications with people in the town/city below, but at the cost of range. If a repeater is set up in such a case, and two collinear elements are being used, they may feed them slightly out of phase to manipulate the pattern to aim it at the town/city below where they want coverage.

Taking it a step further, distance contacts for the 2 meter band are generally made using horizontal polarization. Using a vertical of any kind here puts you at a big disadvantage.

I could go on here...

Based on both my knowledge of how antennas work, and based on, get this, actual experience, it is my opinion that the antenna you are swearing by isn't even the best for your purpose, but then, how would you even know that when you stopped looking at other possibilities? You found an antenna that seems to you to outperform another antenna you had and, without bothering to even try other antennas beyond that, decided that your antenna is automatically the best. When you put this antenna of yours up, you gave up the search. You were an active hobbyist to get that far, then you suddenly stopped.

It is when you are so sure of something in your mind that you don't/won't question it that you are most likely to be wrong. I'm sorry to say, Ironman1956, but this is where you are... I hope you get out this mindset soon and go back to your experimenting ways. You are giving up on your own potential...


The DB

 

[Ironman1956]

Wow, you assume a lot... You assumed your contact from 70 miles away was made because of the antenna design, and were (are) wrong. You assumed that I didn't build the antenna you really like because I built other antennas since, and were wrong. You assumed that I didn't use copper tubing, something I didn't mention in my post, and were still wrong. You assumed that just because I didn't keep using that antenna, or immediately go back to using it, that I never actually built one, and was wrong again.

You now assume he has been frustrated because he has multiple different antennas for the same band? Well, all I can recommend here is to stop assuming, its not getting you very far...

You seem to want to say that one antenna is the best possible antenna for all situations. The problem with that line of thinking is there is no one best possible antenna for all situations. I can go through multiple antenna designs, where they excel and where they don't work well. Each antenna has its good points and bad points. One antenna may work great for you, but not well for someone else. How about I give an example, I'll even limit it to vertical antennas to keep is closer to the antenna you think is the best without question...

Situation one, you live in a flat area with no hills. A single longer antenna will be better, but only to a point. Often a collinear array is used here, or multiple antennas in a vertical line fed in phase. This will keep as much of the signal in as flat a region as possible, and give the absolute best range within a local space. Lets look at another possible situation, your atnenna is on top of a mountain and you want to talk to the people in the town/city below. The shorter antennas pattern will cover a wider space, and because of it may allow communications with people in the town/city below, but at the cost of range. If a repeater is set up in such a case, and two collinear elements are being used, they may feed them slightly out of phase to manipulate the pattern to aim it at the town/city below where they want coverage.

Taking it a step further, distance contacts for the 2 meter band are generally made using horizontal polarization. Using a vertical of any kind here puts you at a big disadvantage.

I could go on here...

Based on both my knowledge of how antennas work, and based on, get this, actual experience, it is my opinion that the antenna you are swearing by isn't even the best for your purpose, but then, how would you even know that when you stopped looking at other possibilities? You found an antenna that seems to you to outperform another antenna you had and, without bothering to even try other antennas beyond that, decided that your antenna is automatically the best. When you put this antenna of yours up, you gave up the search. You were an active hobbyist to get that far, then you suddenly stopped.

It is when you are so sure of something in your mind that you don't/won't question it that you are most likely to be wrong. I'm sorry to say, Ironman1956, but this is where you are... I hope you get out this mindset soon and go back to your experimenting ways. You are giving up on your own potential...


The DB

I know what it does and no, it is not flat here Rattlesnake Mtn alone is 3000 feet not far from here. If you guys want to argue because something did not work for you then have at it, I never assumed anything, just tired of know it alls using a calculator to figure everything from how far a signal carries to how fast a turd drops with a 6 mph sidewind with a 1 mph updraft, have a good day, no wonder no one posts on this site . Everybody has left. If you had the skill and knowledge to build what I did then post some of your crap you rave about, so many idiots on the internet, all blab full of words but lacking in knowledge, just get off of it and do something constructive.

 

[Robb]

There is a goal here in this rhetoric; we want you to do better. To be aware. To make decisions based on real electrical and RF engineering. Of course, if you need to go where they stand for radio mythology and wonder why they never get anywhere, that is entirely up to you. Stick around if you have the stones for it, and come awy a better operator . . .

 

[Ironman1956]

Question 1, how was this determined?



Question 2, does the antenna have 6 dBi gain, or 6 dB gain over a 5/8 wavelength antenna? You can't have both. I am also curious as to how this was determined?

I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but those are some pretty specific claims and I would love to know where they came from...


The DB

Hey num nuts read the article link I posted.

 

[Ironman1956]

I guess you should get that experienced ham friend if yours to design a yagi for you then. I'll bet you could work across the Atlantic and win the Brendan Award with it and 50 watts. I have run everything from homemade 1/4 waves to 13 element yagis and I do know how well a Slim Jim or a J pole works. They are a simple 1/2 wave and nothing more. Sorry dude but you nor your experienced ham buddy can rewrite the laws of physics. If it works good for you then GREAT. Just don't try to convince us knowledgeable and experienced folks that it is the greatest thing since sliced bread. It's not. It works well and that is the extent of it. A 5/8 Will work better at the same height. Once you understand REAL antenna theory and the laws of physics you can understand that.

Captain half wit ,half watt you get the idiot award. go look at your first statement about slim jims not being made of copper pipe, anything after that tells me you are full of blab and lacking in antenna design and knowledge of rf. You get everything all wrong, had to back up in the thread to realize what a bimbo I was chatting with damn, now post some pictures of your designs like I did, you are called on the carpet, so fess up and stand up ok, I said the designer of the antenna along with many others whom also build and sell them claim the 6 db gain over a 5/8 wave and I will stick to that since I know how much gain I have on my neighbors with 5/8 and 1/2 waves while running the same wattage.

 

[The DB]

I know what it does and no, it is not flat here Rattlesnake Mtn alone is 3000 feet not far from here. If you guys want to argue because something did not work for you then have at it, I never assumed anything, just tired of know it alls using a calculator to figure everything from how far a signal carries to how fast a turd drops with a 6 mph sidewind with a 1 mph updraft, have a good day, no wonder no one posts on this site . Everybody has left. If you had the skill and knowledge to build what I did then post some of your crap you rave about, so many idiots on the internet, all blab full of words but lacking in knowledge, just get off of it and do something constructive.

There you go assuming again. I never said the slim jim antennas I built didn't work, if they didn't work why would i have built four of them over the years? Odd... And you say you never assumed anything... Wrong again, you seem to assume something almost every time you post...

So now you are bashing theory? Are you one of those that has one of these theory vs reality opinions? I have news for you, theory and reality build on each other. You can have one or the other, but having both makes you much more well rounded and more capable when working with antennas. Excluding either from your knowledge set only holds you back.

Everyone hasn't left, the ham radio antenna pages have been far less busy than the CB antenna pages, its been that way since I've been a member here...

Looking at what you are saying about others, me included, over these posts, many of your statements would apply to you perfectly. Be careful with them.

Get some knowledge. Try more things. Always seek to improve. You seem to have given up on all three of these. I feel sorry for you for giving up on what I see as one of the most fun and rewardign aspects of the hobby.

Hey num nuts read the article link I posted.

Really? Num nuts? Wow... Are you trying to make it personal? OK whatever...

For the record I did read the article, and I read it long before you linked to it. Did you bother to read what I stated about hamuniverse articles in general? There is one aspect of hamuniverse articles that is off, but the rest is good information. Perhaps you should go back and read about the one aspect in hamuniverse articles that is off...


The DB

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

The asshole is gone. He obviously has no idea about what he is talking and makes outrageous assumptions. I called it right earlier. He is an asshole.

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

Captain half wit ,half watt you get the idiot award. go look at your first statement about slim jims not being made of copper pipe, anything after that tells me you are full of blab and lacking in antenna design and knowledge of rf. You get everything all wrong, had to back up in the thread to realize what a bimbo I was chatting with damn, now post some pictures of your designs like I did, you are called on the carpet, so fess up and stand up ok, I said the designer of the antenna along with many others whom also build and sell them claim the 6 db gain over a 5/8 wave and I will stick to that since I know how much gain I have on my neighbors with 5/8 and 1/2 waves while running the same wattage.

Can someone please show me where I said anything remotely related to the materials a Slim Jim is made of?

 

[The DB]

Can someone please show me where I said anything remotely related to the materials a Slim Jim is made of?

I looked and I can't find one post of yours in this thread that mentions materials.


The DB