The next time you want to ask who is the best...

[dave457]

 

[TheRealPorkchop]

wow there are so many posts i want to respond to, but it's just too many.

I do however, need to respond to a couple of points brought up ITT.

On AC/DC the band. yes, there will always be the Bon vs. Brian argument, just like there will always be a David vs. Sammy argument for van halen.
the truth is that both bands wrote amazing material with both singers.
(i am a die hard Bon and David devotee)

But to say that AC/DC wasn't a good band because their songs were too simple is to miss the entire point!
Have you ever tried to write a song before? It's freakin' hard!
now try to write something that doesn't sound like a song that's already out there.
now try to write a song that makes it out of your bed room and into the hearts and souls of the masses. again, freakin' hard!

A musician who hopes to 'make it' as a song writer needs to have one thing over any other thing, and that is an original style of writing.
It doesn't matter how complex the chords are, and it doesn't matter how many of them are in a song.
THOSE THINGS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER OR NOT A SONG IS GOOD OR NOT!!!

Did you know that 90% of country songs are just a I-IV-V blues chord progression with a different cadence?
Did you know that most of the Beatles most complex arrangements used those same simple chords and can be re-produced on an acoustic guitar?

To say that AC/DC isn't good is to say that rock and roll itself isn't good.
Malcom Young is one of the best riff writers ever and did more with five chords than any berkeley school of music trained jazz a hole ever could.
If any of you hear an AC/DC riff, you know it's an AC/DC riff in one split second.
that my friends is a mark of greatness as a writer.
not to mention that Angus Young created some of the most melodic pentatonic lead playing of his time. His nimble fingers could re-create those amazingly written solos on every stop on the tour.

now on to cliff williams the bass player. who else puts a B note behind a G major chord in order to induce a feeling of motion behind the rhythm.
he was by no means a slouch and his subtle changes to standard '8th note root bass playing' is part of what makes their songs sound so original.


whew.

now, here is a song that i hope all of you will listen to as i think you will enjoy it.
It's by a little band called the Drive by Truckers who also create amazing material with just a few chords.
I believe this song has three:


LC

You’re my hero now.

 

[fourstringburn]

now on to cliff williams the bass player. who else puts a B note behind a G major chord in order to induce a feeling

I like simple stuff also along with complex Jazz and Classical and many other music genres in between. AC/DC rocks! I was just joking about their name and what it meant.

BTW, the G major chord already contains a B note. It doesn't change the chord, but creates harmony in 3rds to the guitars. If he played an F#, that would make it a dominant 7th chord.

It is unusual for Cliff Williams to deviate from the root. What song does he do this on?

 

[Slowmover]

None of you notice that after November 1963 it all turned into three chord kiddie music? Insults?

If one requires electricity to perform, is it music?

Do the human body and standard electrical service have vibratory dissonance?

Music is at the beat of the heart and with the power of breath.

Who cut you off from your heritage? Why?

I could supply a number of, “What is best?”

“Ombra mai fu”, from GF Handels, Xerxes
as performed by the late lamented Fritz Wunderlich




Or, to change from a greatly gifted & trained voice, to one more natural where handking lyrics was (is) everything:

How about Sinatra, with only Bill Miller’s piano as accompaniment until arranged & conductor Nelson Riddle brings in a 60-piece orchestra for the finale?



Who needed rock & roll when Harry James was already blowing ten pins out the back of the alley? (Charley Barney’s tribute album to Harry: “Trumpet Blues” as selection)

Plenty of other examples. Mozart or Mussorgsky. Sinatra surprised some by using examples from Gliere.

Same instruments. Our orchestra. Developed over centuries. Sacred & profane (Faure Requiem).

But it was Americans that made them swing. Others still walked. We flew over oceans.

Noted by one that it’s Louis Armstrong, Frank Sinatra and Nelson Riddle that made something entirely new. Simplicity and complexity in three minute masterpieces.

Can you dance to it. With “her”?

Hopping up and down, alone, like a fool . . . it ain’t dancing any more than the latest talentless twit wins a Grammy for syncopated noise connotes music.

Since that what it became. They wear themselves out with laughter at fools.

Fake news? Ha! Fake music, more like it.

(“Well, I know what I like” = I like what I know)

YouTube your friend.

As to vinyl? Yeah, whoopee. Don’t miss it. 25-plays and it’s dead. An album collection needs a forklift (had a relative with 30,000. Universities and music schools begged him, ha!).

CD is good enough.

.

 

[TheRealPorkchop]

 

[loosecannon]

I like simple stuff also along with complex Jazz and Classical and many other music genres in between. AC/DC rocks! I was just joking about their name and what it meant.

BTW, the G major chord already contains a B note. It doesn't change the chord, but creates harmony in 3rds to the guitars. If he played an F#, that would make it a dominant 7th chord.

It is unusual for Cliff Williams to deviate from the root. What song does he do this on?

thanks for asking FSB!

I love talking about this stuff.
first, we have to remember that the music that the young brothers were creating was visceral, biting, and a bit sarcastic.
This meant that there was no room for major 3rds in their chords, as these just muddied the waters. hence the power chords.
So, Cliff would be the one supplying a major tonality when he felt the song needed it.

yes, there is a B note in a G chord, but if you study the way the majority of rock guitar players use it, you will find that they overwhelmingly tend to mute that note with the meaty part of their 2nd finger that is holding down the low G note.
(they learned this from EVH who learned it from page)
Im talking about putting that 3rd in the bass, which makes the G chord sound like an inversion.

rock guitarists avoid the 3rd like the plague. this might also have something to do with the dissonant harmonics created when major thirds are played at high distortion levels.

first example is in the iconic opening riff from Back in Black.
E-DDD-AAA are the guitar parts.
but cliff plays: E-DDD-C#C#C#
if you try playing it without cliff's C# in there, it just don't sound right.

next is my favorite example, where in the mid section of the same song, malcom is playing: A-E-B-A-B chords a few times, and Cliff is riding on that B note and saying screw you to that A chord! LOL

when the brothers move to D-A-G-A, Cliff rides the G note!
freaking amazing sounding!

one other example that stands out to me is in the chorus of Shoot to Thrill.
cliff plays a B note over the G chord after walking up and lifts the entire chorus up with him.

FSB im sure once you listen to these songs again with this knowledge you'll never be able to unhear what cliff added to their music.

Rock on!
LC

 

[fourstringburn]

thanks for asking FSB!

I love talking about this stuff.
first, we have to remember that the music that the young brothers were creating was visceral, biting, and a bit sarcastic.
This meant that there was no room for major 3rds in their chords, as these just muddied the waters. hence the power chords.
So, Cliff would be the one supplying a major tonality when he felt the song needed it.

yes, there is a B note in a G chord, but if you study the way the majority of rock guitar players use it, you will find that they overwhelmingly tend to mute that note with the meaty part of their 2nd finger that is holding down the low G note.
(they learned this from EVH who learned it from page)
Im talking about putting that 3rd in the bass, which makes the G chord sound like an inversion.

rock guitarists avoid the 3rd like the plague. this might also have something to do with the dissonant harmonics created when major thirds are played at high distortion levels.

first example is in the iconic opening riff from Back in Black.
E-DDD-AAA are the guitar parts.
but cliff plays: E-DDD-C#C#C#
if you try playing it without cliff's C# in there, it just don't sound right.

next is my favorite example, where in the mid section of the same song, malcom is playing: A-E-B-A-B chords a few times, and Cliff is riding on that B note and saying screw you to that A chord! LOL

when the brothers move to D-A-G-A, Cliff rides the G note!
freaking amazing sounding!

one other example that stands out to me is in the chorus of Shoot to Thrill.
cliff plays a B note over the G chord after walking up and lifts the entire chorus up with him.

FSB im sure once you listen to these songs again with this knowledge you'll never be able to unhear what cliff added to their music.

Rock on!
LC

I do recall it now on those songs but I never really analyzed it much.

Cliff Williams Bass lines are pretty straight forward but rock solid so I never really discriminantly listen to them like I would when listening to some older Rush or Sabbath albums.

In a band like AC/DC, having a Bass player shred every opportunity like Billy Sheehan wouldn't work.

One of Cliff Williams bass lines I like is on that album is"What do you do for money" during the verses. The Bass line is just a simple steady pump on the open E string but it sounds so heavy and really drives the song! I do know he uses flatwound Bass strings so you hear no fret noise or clang associated with round wound strings. That's a big part of his sound, punchy and tight!

If you haven't figured it out yet, yes I'm a Bass player. My screen name gives that away.

The last reply to you I gave a little theory but purposely incorrect, you didn't catch it?

Just testing because I suspect you play guitar/Bass.

 

[TheRealPorkchop]

 

[loosecannon]

Great post FSB. couldn't have said it better.

yes, i was already aware that you're not just a hobbyist with a bass based on some of our older correspondence.

You got me with that F#!
i moved right past it LOL.

I give myself a solid F (natural) for not seeing it sooner!

yes, im one of those 'never made its' that spent their 20's trying to write the perfect amalgamation of grunge and alt rock.
now i just play open mic nights for fun and pass off obscure tunes as my own LOL.
LC

 

[TheRealPorkchop]

Great post FSB. couldn't have said it better.

yes, i was already aware that you're not just a hobbyist with a bass based on some of our older correspondence.

You got me with that F#!
i moved right past it LOL.

I give myself a solid F (natural) for not seeing it sooner!

yes, im one of those 'never made its' that spent their 20's trying to write the perfect amalgamation of grunge and alt rock.
now i just play open mic nights for fun and pass off obscure tunes as my own LOL.
LC

You’re still my hero. Like Junior told Buford, “I love you daddy, even if you can’t catch the bad guys no more. Even if Little Enos is gonna get your badge. Even if you’re the laughing stock of Texas”

Start at 3:00

 

[fourstringburn]

I give myself a solid F (natural) for not seeing it sooner!

Aha! Yes you get a "natrual F" for not seeing the F# that isn't in a dominant 7th chord. Clever answer though!

Yes, an F# would be a major 7th chord based on the root, 3rd, 5th, and 7th tones of the G major scale which has 1 sharp.

You know your chords!

 

[357magnum]

Like I tell all New Members the knowledge & Diversity of the people on here is unbelievable ! One word .. WOW ! I learn new things daily being a member here , all I can say is Thanks ! Btw great songs posted by all especially the one LC posted .

 

[Tallman]

Aha! Yes you get a "natrual F" for not seeing the F# that isn't in a dominant 7th chord. Clever answer though!

Yes, an F# would be a major 7th chord based on the root, 3rd, 5th, and 7th tones of the G major scale which has 1 sharp.

You know your chords!

I don'ts know dem chords but I kin shred wit da best of dem.

 

[fourstringburn]

I don'ts know dem chords but I kin shred wit da best of dem.

On a geet-tar or pie-aner or both?

 

[w9cll]

I hate the F chord.. it hurts.