This is why I laugh at people using super expensive mics on CB and Ham

[wavrider]

If it is such a BIG improvement then why are there no manufactures of transceivers or CB radios stryker, cobra, galaxy, ranger etc etc marketing any accessories for their hi fi wide band audio??

I do not know of any Amateur transceiver manufactures marketing outboard gear for their rigs, their are many that allow tailoring the transmit audio within parameters but no outboard accessories that I know of. Could be wrong and probably am.

Seems it is just more toys to play with, no problem with that but the end result is nothing gained in the transmitted signal, just different frequency response in audio.

So now it is not about making the contact, it is making it with hi fi audio??
As W9CLL said, good clean clear audio will get the response every time.

 

[Mustang 131]

If it is such a BIG improvement then why are there no manufactures of transceivers or CB radios stryker, cobra, galaxy, ranger etc etc marketing any accessories for their hi fi wide band audio??



I do not know of any Amateur transceiver manufactures marketing outboard gear for their rigs, their are many that allow tailoring the transmit audio within parameters but no outboard accessories that I know of. Could be wrong and probably am.

Seems it is just more toys to play with, no problem with that but the end result is nothing gained in the transmitted signal, just different frequency response in audio.

So now it is not about making the contact, it is making it with hi fi audio??
As W9CLL said, good clean clear audio will get the response every time.

The manufactures deal with FCC rules...an the even more important lowest common denominator. Lets face it, regular CB's really sound like crap out of the box.

 

[dave457]

So do most hf rigs on am

 

[543_Dallas]

If it is such a BIG improvement then why are there no manufactures of transceivers or CB radios stryker, cobra, galaxy, ranger etc etc marketing any accessories for their hi fi wide band audio??

I do not know of any Amateur transceiver manufactures marketing outboard gear for their rigs, their are many that allow tailoring the transmit audio within parameters but no outboard accessories that I know of. Could be wrong and probably am.

Seems it is just more toys to play with, no problem with that but the end result is nothing gained in the transmitted signal, just different frequency response in audio.

So now it is not about making the contact, it is making it with hi fi audio??
As W9CLL said, good clean clear audio will get the response every time.

I don't have a good answer but think about who Stryker, galaxy and the export rigs are marketed towards. People who want shiny things with extra channels, color changing led's, roger beeps, echo and the ability to make a watt meter swing. Cobra radios are fcc compliant so they aren't going to put out any goodies either. I have made the mistake of helping people with wide band audio and it's a disaster almost every time. The people that can make it work don't need any help.

Give the average Joe a modified 148 gtl or cobra 29 that will pass 10khz or more but there's a catch. The radio is good for 6 to 8 watts pep. Almost every one of them will crank up the power and spend days screwing with the eq trying to make it not sound like poo. Others will either have low modulation and be hard to copy or over modulated. This is not just a CB problem. AM operators on HF seem to have the same issues. When some of these radios are modified the modulation limiter is out of the picture so properly set peak limiter in the rack is a must have.

I don't know of any amateur radio manufacturers offering outboard gear but I don't like to think that if you can't buy attachments for the appliance from the manufacturer you don't need it. A lot modern rigs will transmit and receive 4k ssb and 8k AM with no modification. Many of them have it built in eq and processing. However, people keep quoting rx bandwidth specs from rigs made in the 80's. The latest versions of power sdr used with the anan radios has multi band peak limiting, eq, compressor, noise gates. More rack gear than you could buy for the price of the radio. I'm not familiar with Flex but they are also quite capable.

We are all in radio for different reasons. You say making contacts I like rag chewing. If the band conditions are good I would rather sound more natural. When people tell me I sound the same in person as I do on the radio I've met my goal. Space shuttle audio is probably a better option for someone running qrp, busting pileups or when band conditions are bad. I'm not too proud to run 300 to 2700 bandwidth when needed.

 

[Shadetree Mechanic]

I just got my AM station up and running. I have a Sonar FS-2340 with a D104 and I am amazed how it sounds compared to my stock Cobra 29. I had no idea how much of a difference there is until I started comparing them. I wouldn't mind trying a Shure mic and a little EQ and maybe a small amount of compression. Like 543 said to sound the same in person as on the air. I am still learning and figuring things out as I go. That is the fun part for me is learning what is needed and what is available. I am always thinking about what is next on my list. Thanks to everyone here for sharing their knowledge.
Chris

 

[Robb]

If it is such a BIG improvement then why are there no manufactures of transceivers or CB radios stryker, cobra, galaxy, ranger etc etc marketing any accessories for their hi fi wide band audio??

I do not know of any Amateur transceiver manufactures marketing outboard gear for their rigs, their are many that allow tailoring the transmit audio within parameters but no outboard accessories that I know of. Could be wrong and probably am.

Seems it is just more toys to play with, no problem with that but the end result is nothing gained in the transmitted signal, just different frequency response in audio.

So now it is not about making the contact, it is making it with hi fi audio??
As W9CLL said, good clean clear audio will get the response every time.

I'll bite, WR.

First off, one must wide band the CB a little bit by changing out a few caps in the mic circuit. Mfrs won't do that, since they want to sell a radio that is under the bandwidth limitation to get FCC approval. Changing the bandwidth to 1khz wider makes a HUGE difference in the TX audio. So, experimenters only enter in . .

For Ham freqs, there are a few places in the allotted spectrum where the HiFi enthusiasts use a bit more bandwidth. Sounds pretty awesome too. Some Ham rigs can easily do the wider bandwidth with either hard modding the radio or thru software emulation. The Kenwood TS-2000 has software filters and can easily be adjusted. The Kenwood TS-950 and 850 are also faves in HiFi TX/RX crowd. The SDR-1000 I have can TX as wide as any FM station can (20-20khz). The list goes on . . .

 

[543_Dallas]

Off topic but....Before I had a sdr I didn't realize that a lot of the AM broadcast stations run 20khz wide and car stereos don't have that wide of a receiver. No surprise AM radio sounds crappy in the car but they sound amazing on the sdr. Hopefully they don't get any hate mail for running wider bandwidth than the majority of their listeners can hear.

 

[Handy Andy]

Which is why I'd love to have the older days of the variable cap tuning (Station tuning knob GEEZ guys..) - at least you can "change the tone" of the station as you adjusted for carrier, fade and engine noise for "best fit" listening to the game and the announcer.

:+> Andy <+:

 

[wavrider]

ROBB in order to fully appreciate the WIDE band transmitted doesn't the receiving station also have to have the capabilities of processing such wide band audio??

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

The SDR-1000 I have can TX as wide as any FM station can (20-20khz). The list goes on . . .

I agree with everything else you said but I gotta be picky about this one. No surprise hey? Standard FM deviation for communications is only 5 KHz so you got that beat but FM radio stations it is 75 KHz so

ROBB in order to fully appreciate the WIDE band transmitted doesn't the receiving station also have to have the capabilities of processing such wide band audio??

Just like anything else it is only as strong as it's weakest link.

 

[Robb]

ROBB in order to fully appreciate the WIDE band transmitted doesn't the receiving station also have to have the capabilities of processing such wide band audio??

Several years ago, I ran the SDR-1000 on SSB/CB band and watched the signal traces coming in. Even tho CB radios are supposed to be ~3.5khz wide; the traces showed otherwise. Most of the time (<87%) were showing roll off points at/near 4khz wide or greater.

Having said that, all one need to do is push at the roll off points by allowing the mic audio to hit that wall by removing any impediment in the mic and receive circuit..

Some of the HiFi CBers were getting ~5khz on SSB. I was not a little surprised.

Receive can also be maxxed out by the cap changes, as this will let the audio run up against and hit that 4khz wall. So long as the mods are done and you use a real HiFi speaker/monitor then yes, you can hear it.

CK/Garth: Why do the commercial FM stations TX that wide? I can only speculate that it is to ensure no/little HF roll off?

 

[543_Dallas]

Robb gets it. The filters in radios are not brick walls unless you're dealing with SDR. People preaching out of the owners manual overlook that. You don't have to modify a radio to hear the difference in sound quality but it does improve things.

If you're listening to AM with a narrow ssb filter or have a radio with a crummy receiver AM is not going to sound that great. The 455khz ceramic filter used in older kenwood radios was useless for anything but narrow ssb. Swapping with one out of an old CB was an improvement. Fortunately we've come out of the dark ages and HF radios are getting better. I went from a ts-440 to a ftdx 1200...holy crap does the receiver in the kenwood suck.

If it were true that only a person with a modified receiver can hear the difference I would have never noticed wide band audio for the first time through the stock receiver of a cobra 29. The gear I was using on before wide band AM on 11 meters was popular would have never gotten the attention it did if no one could hear it. People with stock receivers were drooling over the sound. If they were listening on a 40 year old HF rig they might not have been so impressed.

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

CK/Garth: Why do the commercial FM stations TX that wide? I can only speculate that it is to ensure no/little HF roll off?

LOL I started to make that post and then realized we were talking two different things so I backed it out. Later when I replied to Waverider it posted BOTH replies. Gotta love cookies and the auto save function on this site. LOL The maximum modulating frequency is 15KHz but the maximum FM deviation from carrier frequency is 75 KHz.....two completely different and unrelated things. The amount of deviation and thus occupied bandwidth of an FM signal is directly proportional to how loud it is.

 

[Captain Kilowatt]

It has a LOT to do with the filter skirts or the shape of the roll off. A filter with steep roll off will not pass the highs as well as a filter with a smoother roll off. there is quite a difference between not passing anything and passing something with several dB of attenuation. FWIW my Kenwood R-1000 receiver has an AM WIDE and AM NARROW mode. There is an internal jumper to select how wide these are. In one position narrow is 2.7 KHz and wide is 6 KHz. In the other position narrow is 6 KHz and wide is a ridiculous 12 KHz. It is almost impossible to use it on a crowded AM band at night but if the local AM station has decent fidelity it sounds REALLY good. It also makes those guys on 3885 sound pretty good too.

 

[wavrider]

I swl on the old Yaesu ft102, has the mechanical Collins filter in it, allows with adjustment some great sounding am ops on 75 meters, but the mechanical filter is adjustable so it can be tailored.

ROBB that is why I was asking about the receiver needing to be modified to fully enhance the audio of wide band transmitters.

Selectable filters in the TS450 allows good receive audio of am stations.