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triode vs tetrode

Assuming linear gain, that's 100 in and 7k out of a pair, correct?

Toll Free was talking about the 4-400 tube here. Not a big ceramic tube. Getting 700 watts PEP out on one is running the tube nicely.

That deal is off the table, lol. I called the guy about a 3000 box and he offered up the 10000. When I didn't immediately commit and instead told him that I needed some time to think about it, he shot me an email the next morning saying to hell with it, he was tired of messing with CB'er and he'd just keep it and build a multibander out of it *shrugs*

This one makes me laugh too. The person in question doesn't even have the skills to make the 3CX10,000A7 generator into a multi band HF amp. That was more him having a hissy fit then being realistic.
 
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Toll Free was talking about the 4-400 tube here. Not a big ceramic tube. Getting 700 watts PEP out on one is running the tube nicely.
So 1.4k would be realistic out of a pair of these?



This one makes me laugh too. The person in question doesn't even have the skills to make the 3CX10,000A7 generator into a multi band HF amp. That was more him having a hissy fit then being realistic.
Yeah, most of the phoncon was about what others couldn't do instead of what he could do, it was a turn off for sure.

Can the yc156 be rebuilt, it appears that it can. Maybe a guy would be wise to put a couple of these on the shelf now.
 
Some more things I forgot to mention about the YC-156. Where directly heated thorium cathodes can be run at slightly reduced filament voltage for increased life, don't try this with an oxide coated cathode. It has the exact opposite effect on these tubes and shortens the life.

The YC-156 was also made for one specific purpose that is now becoming obsolete. It was custom designed for use in many MRI machines and may even be out of production as we speak. Apparently the RF generators in these devices have progressed to the point where this tube is no longer used.

That being said, the tube is fragile and may become difficult to replace in the future. Buy a spare now and I strongly recommend using some type of grid over load protection. I believe the tube has a 5KW anode dissipation but the grid is no stronger then the 8877 at only 25 watts. This makes for some very low IMD when used as a linear but easy to melt the grid.


I personally know more than a couple MRI technicians. NO, I don't have a good line on surplus tubes, lemme get that out of the way now. They already sell to Alan.

BUT, the YC-156 IS going away, and as you stated, may be out of production already. HOWEVER, the 179 is still being produced. It won't 'bolt in', but an adapter plate can be made to make it work. It's basically the same tube, SLIGHT updates inside (I've heard it reported that the 179 does NOT need to be 'debarnacled' to run it in SSB service, but I would still perform the practice, JUST IN CASE!!!!).

I've also been involved in more than one argument about the grid structure. In an MRI machine, they pulse drive the grid. Because of this, the grid structure is 'isolated' mechanically..... Meaning, the 25 watts is 'free air' dissipation, like mounting a TO220 transistor sans heat sink. Since we (radio hobbyists) use the grid strapped straight to ground, usually on a nice thick chassis plate, there IS a heat sinking effect.... HOWEVER, I don't believe you NEED to drive the hell out of this tube, as the gain is pretty high.

I spoke with Tony King via email for quite some time on the YC-156 tube, and he agreed that it DOES get at least some benefit from the heat sink effect, as has VE7RF and more than a couple other 'large' amp builders. HOWEVER, I also have been argued on the other side of the coin that there is NO heat sinking effect, and the opponents of the idea pointed to pictures ON Tony Kings website to proof.

HOWEVER, I've put MORE than 25 watts through the grid, and not had a problem **wink** There is also other users that report the same.


The statement "gain of a tetrode" comes from a statement made by Reid Brandon. NO, it doesn't have the gain of a modern day tet, but at the same time, this isn't your Daddies 3-500Z, either!

As you pointed out, you do NOT ramp the voltage to extend tube life. Tube life in these types is maintained and extended by KEEPING THE FILAMENT AT IT'S RATED TEMPERATURE!!!!!

If you'd like to make it even BETTER, there is another cooling tower design I've used (given to me by someone else, in the interest of clarity) that bumps the Pdiss up about another 1 Kw, in typical amateur / CBer service. Instead of the standard chimney, you can use a box assembly and then drill HUGE holes between the anode and filament areas. This will allow you to force more air through the anode, and airflow = dissipation. Again, the thing you'd really have to watch here is the Grid diss, since it would be pretty hard to run that thing to 6 Kw and only hit the grid at 25 watts... You'd be pretty damn good with the loading! HOWEVER, for the cost incurred, I'd go with this method.... Just make sure you size the blower larger, or you run into backflow issues since the holes are now bigger (I've found that if you follow Eimac's recommended drilling patters, you end up with more backflow from the chassis than you do from the anode! Collins and a couple others figured this out years ago and designed 'top down' cooling, where you use a fan on the lower assembly and a blower on the anode cavity. THEN, the anode is always breathing the coolest air, the tank circuit also gets cooled, etc.... BUT, you have to have a pretty good airflow engineer to get the thing to work correctly from what I've read).

The YC is a 3-500 dollar tube. The 8171 is > 1000. I've successfully seen 4 YC156s in operation in a 30Kw amp. On 10. Buy a pair, you'll probably have your kids selling BOTH tubes after we're all done and gone.


--Toll_Free
 
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BUT, the YC-156 IS going away, and as you stated, may be out of production already. HOWEVER, the 179 is still being produced. It won't 'bolt in', but an adapter plate can be made to make it work. It's basically the same tube, SLIGHT updates inside (I've heard it reported that the 179 does NOT need to be 'debarnacled' to run it in SSB service, but I would still perform the practice, JUST IN CASE!!!!).
Yeah, according to a couple builders, the grid ring is slightly different. But you could interchange the tube within the same rf deck using this ring. Shit like this makes me wish I still had my 20x40 HAAS VMC.

plate4-hi.jpg
 
359, the price of entry to correctly play with the big boys ain't cheap!

When you look at the socketless tubes, you realize, they've only got 25 watts of Gdiss...

Whereas a socketed tube runs > 100 usually....

I've only purchased my SK series sockets surplus. WHY spend a grand when you can get the same thing for 100. A bit of fingerstock sometimes is necessary, but who doesn't have that laying around????

--Toll_Free
 
When you look at the socketless tubes, you realize, they've only got 25 watts of Gdiss...

--Toll_Free

That's because they don't need any more and to build them with more increases IMD.

I use 4CX5000s for door stops in my shop.
 
That's because they don't need any more and to build them with more increases IMD.

I use 4CX5000s for door stops in my shop.

I used one to clean out my chimney. It was just the right size to drop down and the handles made attaching a rope easy. The external anode fins really broke up the creosote buildup nicely. :D
 
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If your in the 'planning' stages, get a YC156 and a 400 watt driver, that's capable of operating at 225 or so watts. Problem solved. That, currently, is my favorite tube.

Seriously, though, where I in your position, I'd use the SB200 in LOW, underdrive the HELL out of it with a peaked up radio, and run a YC156. 10Kw +++ capabilities (I've seen 15 out of a single, but the V was pretty high, and we conditioned the tube for DAYS to debarnicle it).

So ~225 in should get ~7500 out, is that correct? I can only find data for class AB pulsed service and not class B linear service and I'm not good enough to calculate out the exact numbers in class B, but that's in the neighborhood of ~15db gain, which seems correct.

I'm stuck on getting rid of a driver, so I just ordered a $600 radio today, this shit is making my brain hurt. My tech said he can make the 2995dx do ~225 clean and cool, just like the 2970n2 that I bought in December. If not, I can always buy a p/s for the N2 and bring it in the house I guess, lol.

I keep following links for cheap YC-156's and they aren't there, which is making my brain hurt even more :glare:

Sometime next week, I want to run to Columbus and look around at a couple machine tool dealers for an old Fanuc cabinet suffed in a back corner somewhere. They are double walled and sealed tight, I thought that might work for an enclosure. If not I have a couple buddies still in the sheet metal business who can brake a cabinet up for me.

I'm gonna have to dig up 3-4 radios and 3-4 amps to sell here soon, so my wife doesn't spin out and hit the wall :LOL:
 
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The red writing looks nice on that bottle. It probably has not been used by someone who thinks they can run it at twice it's safe power yet.
 
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